posted November 09, 2012 12:37 PM            

Re: us being puppets, I think the entire country is a puppet of the 1% so-rich-that-even-their-sweat-oozes-dollars (and I'm not speaking of the multi millionaire whizzes from Wall Street). And yes I've heard that they secretly control both sides. If this is true (and it likely is), then the only way to counter the danger of this is for the people to stay vigilant and demand what is good for us as a nation and also the world.

Like the group of Latinos that picketed outside the White House yesterday reminding the Prez. to make good on his promise to them. This is the kind of constant vigilance we as a people are going to need to have.

But I think it is necessary to also maintain a certain level of trust, meaning giving him another chance, before fearing the worst.

The forces of change are upon the country and they cannot be denied. From Occupy Wall Street and other noises being made, slowly the people can keep the puppeteers in check.

posted November 09, 2012 02:04 PM            

It makes 3D more equal than we choose to realize.

Why did we not see more earthquakes and disasters before 2012 Dec 21?

If Dark Side had 100% control:

Wikileaks should never have existed

Julian Assange should have been dead months ago.

Greeks would not be rioting on the streets.

Murdoch would not be scared.

Donald Trump would not lose his marbles.

Wall Street would have pumped more money to Obama.

The Indian Government would have supported big pharma in life saving drugs.

Twitter would be banned.

Tahrir Square would have been crushed with a million brutal kilings.

Chinese Council would not have issued a dire warning against corruption.

Bio-Hydrogen gas discoverers would have been killed.

None of the Vatican child abuse cases would have been made public.

The Indian Army would not confess to UFOs.

I can give hundreds of examples.

Obama as an individual is a genuine human being. He hates the drone attacks as much as we do but you cannot jump into a dragon's mouth to defeat it. One cut at a time, and then lying low, another cut, another cut. A thousand slow chip chops are needed before planning a killer blow.

If Obama gets a chance to secretly assassinate all Illuminati Bankers who are stuck in one location, he will not hesitate unlike the other pliable Presidents. But if he acts for good too fast too soon, he will be taken out or worse, he will have to be a mute witness to another false flag to be blamed on Iran.

There are good people in the Pentagon too.

"Mind Control" Veils are being steadily lifted.

Do not think for even one moment that the Dark Side is 100% Supreme.

I repeat, it is a Mexican Standoff between Light and Dark in upper Realms. Nobody wants to be responsible for Earth's destruction, each side wants Earth wholly for themselves.
Humanity can vigilantly choose to "Ascend" into a Higher Vibration.

Note the clever use of the word "Ascendant Groups" by Obama's teams. They can give only so much as clues.

------------------
Astrology Articles

posted November 09, 2012 02:05 PM            

And that's certainly what the conspiratorialists also feel about the average person. ...I guess then the question is, just what are we considering "the big picture" to be?

posted November 09, 2012 02:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jovian:
Faith, this remarkable re-election has compelled me to start looking further into Obama's background than I had previously, to prove even more certainly to myself that there is well enough a mound of evidence to confirm the doubts that intuitively exist for so many about this man. Though, for those of us who realize that nothing is left to chance by the power brokers, it is to be completely expected that Obama was supported and cultivated to be this trojan horse from long ago, and the trail of his past continues to be scrubbed clean, in some places, and cavalierly left exposed in others...I don't know--it's just the fact that it is always tainted that dismays me. ...People's idealism and belief in goodness is being manipulated, big time. Obama has indeed done very little of all the amazing things he promised in his first term, and in fact has done quite a lot of other things. ...Yet here he is, elected by quite a margin. People would rather believe the lie, as you say. I understand how baffled the average Republican and others are by this fact, that despite all the lies, here he is again, with his amazing charisma and promises for the future.

---

Jovian, I sympathize with your skepticism and you are completely entitled to it, but you realize you are judging the actions of just one very human individual who is just as flawed and misunderstood as any other person. You judge others for idealizing him yet you yourself judge him for not living up to almost unreachable standards. Standards he set up for himself, I understand, yet very hard to accomplish. He's a politician yes, and of course politicians have their own political agendas and somewhere within their efforts and words are lies and truths but what sense is there in blaming a person for being human? For underestimating others, being optimistic and naive. In times of struggle all people have are their hopes.

This is a man who spent years as a community organizer, working with and among the people before he even set his eyes on the Senate. I will say that President Barack Obama has been very naive. He underestimated the scale of corruption and bigotry within Washington and American politics. His vision couldn't keep pace with his actions. The problem I've had with Obama has always been that he's naive. And this naivety has worked for him and very prominently against him. In this second term this nation is going to begin to see a side of Obama that will probably shock us all, the cynics, the skeptics, the disillusioned, idealistic and even the opposed. The country has spoken, the majority of this country may have their doubts about President Obama but they've shown they have greater trust in his efforts to manage many of the issues this country faces as opposed to the likes of plutocrat Mitt Romney and third party alternatives. Work must be done, and I'm sure the President is aware of this more so then the rest of us. We as a nation aren't the most forgiving, but don't underestimate the power of human fortitude and perseverance. At the end of the day we all want the same thing, to move forward and rebuild this very disgruntled and divided country. We have to work together and support each other if things are going to change. There's no point in going on a witch hunt, Obama's actions speak far louder than any of his words (though they are inspiring), because in a sense we are all guilty of deceiving others, and ourselves. For allowing ourselves to shamefully think or feel even an ounce of that very evil, deceptive and destructive thing called idealism. This world is bleak, can't people have their optimism? Can they not have their hope?

There is no illusion, the lies are in plain sight. The 60+ million that voted for this man aren't blind, or asleep they are awake. Don't underestimate the power or strength of human capability or intellect. People are beginning to see something that could very well be cited as the truth. Whatever "truth" they choose to believe that is. With that awareness they can choose whether or not to do something about their dissatisfaction. Complaining is wonderful, it's vital to vent our emotions, yet actions are what set the momentum for change. Times are changing, people are changing and America is evolving.

posted November 09, 2012 02:37 PM            

@ Jovian ((Hugs))
I understand your skepticism and wish there was some way I could reassure you. But maybe time will reveal more to all of us.

Meantime, I just want to direct good thoughts toward the Prez so that he can be aided in accomplishing as much as he can in the second term. He's not perfect but I also think he's our best bet to stand up to TPTB, what iQ has referred to as the "dark side".

posted November 09, 2012 03:31 PM            

I think it was George Carlin who said inside every cynic is a disappointed idealist? I feel like I could be the biggest idealist on the planet, if I didn’t have an awareness of some things. …To add a dimension of understanding regarding where my own strong opinions come from, I think part of it is my own sense of having failed to live up to such an ideal myself, in what I sense are my own past (lives) as a leader. It seems to compel me to scrutinize others in such a position. This may sound whack-a-doodle to those who have no concept of their own “past lives,” but this is my truth. …So hard for me to trust! Some big betrayals—by myself, by others--long ago, no doubt.

I do appreciate IQ’s metaphysical viewpoint, in his response above on this page, about just why he perceives that the world is currently heading in a better direction, and that the Dark Side does not have 100% control. Indeed, I had been thinking today of the internet, and how much is freely shared here, outside of the purview of the MSM…and felt grateful for the fact that it is still an open channel for information sharing.

Yes, I do hope with all my heart that this is true--that there are genuinely good forces standing off against Darkness at this time in another realm, and that these apparent episodes of chinks in the armor of the dark side are truly indicative of energetic changes in our realm.

I agree that some part of this man may have good intentions. …But there remain many skeletons in his closet, which TPTB have helped to whitewash and eliminate, as they always do to protect their interests. Despite those who scoff at the information that it seems only the more conservative right is latching onto, I do at this point believe that he was born in Kenya. And if so, he has at the very least directly lied about that. …Is this minor? Would such lies at this point be considered inconsequential “little white lies,” when compared to the larger picture of all the “good” he represents? So, I can't agree with you, Joan, that "the lies are in plain sight." If he can lie so cavalierly about where he was born, and even pursue the presidency knowing he would have to lie about this, what else can't he get away with? I don’t know if it’s that he is naïve, rather that he is arrogant…or at the least very confident that he was destined for this role—aided of course for YEARS by all his monied backers and their interests.

I will agree with Linda, though, that he might benefit from good thoughts, in being guided more by Light than by Darkness. ...So, somebody get on that task, will ya? ...I'm just too cynical about it, and my thoughts wouldn't do any good!

posted November 09, 2012 04:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jovian:
I agree that some part of this man has good intentions. …But there remain many skeletons in his closet, which TPTB have helped to whitewash and eliminate, as they always do to protect their interests. Despite those who scoff at the information that it seems only the more conservative right is latching onto, I do at this point believe that he was born in Kenya. And if so, he has at the very least directly lied about that. …Is this minor? Would such lies at this point considered inconsequential “little white lies,” when compared to the larger picture of all the “good” he represents? So, I can't agree with you, Joan, that "the lies are in plain sight." If he can lie so cavalierly about where he was born what else can't he get away with? I don’t know if it’s that he is naïve, rather that he is arrogant…or at the least very confident that he was destined for this role—aided of course for YEARS by all his monied backers and their interests.

---

Jovian, you want me to consider your stance however there seems to be a flaw in your argument about Obama's "lies." It seems there is misinformation within your argument that has already been discredited. I honestly feel such deep empathy for Barack Obama for continually having to face those who relentlessly choose to discredit his birthplace in spite of blatant evidence. Their hate for him is viciously noted. He has now been elected for his second term, proof of his birth certificate is available to the public. He even has witnesses. I can't answer your question because it seems you are very misinformed. In a world forging towards more objective and rational conclusions, having a feeling that someone lied doesn't prove they in fact did lie, it just reminds us of how subjectivity tends to override objectivity when it comes to human perception.

posted November 09, 2012 04:57 PM            

Lord knows I am not allied with the conservative religious right. I can't objectively view any of Jwop's postings around here, without losing it myself. And I can't help but want to hold an opposing viewpoint, in the face of such vicious spewing of such stereotyped, uninformed rants against "libs."

I understand completely that you and others think I am a whack-a-doodle for believing in the "birther" arguments at this point. I'm willing to be the odd-man-out on this, right now!

posted November 09, 2012 06:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jovian:
Joan. I really appreciate your responses. ...I really have no emotional "vicious" hatred going on, here, as I know some of the more ignorant class of extreme conservatives do. ...It is somewhat distressing to me that this conversation is distressing to you. It is just my nature to be suspect of those in power, as I tried to explain...and this man has a lot of it, evidenced by the hold he has on people's heartstrings. I really do understand. I want to believe! ...I would really wish I felt things were as you believe.

Lord knows I am not allied with the conservative religious right. I can't objectively view any of Jwop's postings around here, without losing it myself. And I can't help but want to hold an opposing viewpoint, in the face of such vicious spewing of such stereotyped, uninformed rants against "libs."

I understand completely that you and others think I am a whack-a-doodle for believing in the "birther" arguments at this point. I'm willing to be the odd-man-out on this, right now!

Fascinating times we are in. Time will tell.

---

Jovian, our discussion isn't distressing me. I just tend to like substance beyond personal biases that support arguments and when substantial support is lacking I tend to point that out. Just in case it was neglected accidentally or even purposefully. It's human nature, I think to be skeptical, we just seem to have reservations about different things and for many different reasons. I don't think your "whack-a-doodle" I just don't agree with you. The proof is out there for the world to see. I just think energy should be put towards the more pressing issues facing the country and this planet then the fruitless attempts to discredit the President's birthplace. People will continue to starve to death in underdeveloped countries as we discuss Obama's "lies." I just think there are bigger things that need our concern. Conspiracy theorists have been around and will continue to be around as the world evolves and continues to change.

posted November 09, 2012 06:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jovian:

I will agree with Linda, though, that he might benefit from good thoughts, in being guided more by Light than by Darkness. ...So, somebody get on that task, will ya? ...I'm just too cynical about it, and my thoughts wouldn't do any good!

---

Right away, Ma'am
And don't worry, you're fine! Definitely not a whack-a-doodle, lol, but very intelligent, sensitive, and insightful.

quote:

---

Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
@Linda Jones, thank you for your words. IQ always speaks with wisdom. You both have a wider latitude of patience than I. It must be that pesky Aries Moon of mine...

---

Nice to meet you, Joan. And nah, your Moon ain't pesky at all. I'd read your old posts, and then one day I read that you'd decided to leave, which was disappointing, since I found you insightful too. Anyways it's good to see you posting again.

Both Jovian and you have a depth to your personalities that makes coming to LL such a joy! It's also wonderful that you guys write your opinions openly and fearlessly, but without ripping into each other. Love this level of respect!

posted November 09, 2012 06:41 PM            

Here we go again.

LOL about "conspiratorial." I take it back, the power elite NEVER congregate and make plans behind our backs. That would be so morally wrong, the world might just explode from the sheer evil of it.

Pardon me for thinking the mainstream media is controlled and fails to report essential facts about how our government runs. I must be a kook!

@iQ,

God bless you, but I have *no* idea what you mean to accomplish by saying that Obama hates these drone attacks. Are you psychic? Got any proof?

Also, no one is saying that evil is prevailing 100%, but the fact that Assange hasn't broken any US law, but they are trying to have him extradited and tried and/or indefinitely detained is SOMETHING.

I just think the praise for Obama is overblown, rooted in sentimentalism, and not warranted by the facts.

posted November 09, 2012 10:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by iQ:
He hates the drone attacks as much as we do but you cannot jump into a dragon's mouth to defeat it. One cut at a time, and then lying low, another cut, another cut. A thousand slow chip chops are needed before planning a killer blow.

---

I doubt this given that he's supported the program publicly and his administration has also defended taking it even further than under Bush even to the point of putting Americans on secret kill lists without due process.

posted November 09, 2012 11:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PixieJane:
I doubt this given that he's supported the program publicly and his administration has also defended taking it even further than under Bush even to the point of putting Americans on secret kill lists without due process.

---

It also makes one wonder why he selects drone targets on a weekly basis, as if he needs to meet some death quota. Who's pushing him to do that? Why must we overlook this morbid process...dehumanize the victims...sanitize what's happening?

I mean THAT'S scary. "Don't mind these drone victims, they're just Muslims." Toooo much like, "Don't mind the death camps, they are merely Jews."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jun/11/obama-drone-wars-normalisation-extrajudicial-killing

So that's how balance is achieved, apparently. A few less Muslims, a few more victories for the almighty USA. Something to make everyone's heart feel nice and cozy.

posted November 10, 2012 03:35 AM            

So Obama and others in top positions worldwide can only disclose so much directly to the public.

Cut to Supernatural Series, which was one of the greatest public educational services as far as the occult world is concerned.
A certain "Tribute" is forced upon those in power. Drone attacks are akin to a negotiated Human Sacrifice. No Human likes it. Alternative is full scale war, more death of troops, more death of civilians, more provocation to larger wars.

The Plan B has started to eliminate drone attacks by setting up Mr Imran Khan as the next PM of Pakistan. Imran works for the Light. The moment Imran wins or even gets a sizeable chunk of seats in Pakistan, drone attacks will be minimized or stopped.
There will be certain repercussions in Pakistan though, an earthquake perhaps. But no harm can come if the people change to a higher vibration. The Pakistanis have done well in condemning the Taliban who tried to shoot dead a 13 year old girl just because she demanded education. This positivity will definitely help their cause.

How do I know Obama hates this "tribute"?

The thing he said while hugging the owner of the destroyed board walk in New Jersey: "Everybody is safe, that is the most important thing". In such close proximity, Heart Chakra predominates and one cannot lie to get one vote.

Next, I was going through Linda Goodman's notes about USA. The USA has some powerful Occult Protection. Same is mentioned by Tantra Guru Vimalananda. 3 Great Blessings only for USA. 1 for Russia. From Vishnu as Rama Avatar.

No man who is evil can ever be elected with a popular vote in the country IF there is such protection.
And to win a re-election without big money from Wall Street and without Israeli lobbying, this guy has to be 100% Kosher

George Bush is the only modern President who was elected controversially after losing the popular vote. We were shown the consequences.
War, Bubble, Recession.

Even Bush tried to change but the Dark via Cheney held him on a very tight leash. His bloodline prevented him from having the Will to do good.

Obama has no such blocks. His daddy did not brutally plan the death of hundreds of thousands in a war and post war sanctions. Not to mention devastating the lives of thousands of Gulf War Vets. George Dubya Bush had the worst daddy a son could have, and considering that DNA, he did a great job. He could have killed millions but stopped with a few thousands.

Coming to Obama's birth and origin, there is a conspiracy theory that he could be MalcolmX's love child, and the whole Kenyan daddy thing is a cover to make sure this secret stays safe. If I am told since age 1 that I have been born in USA, how would I know that I was born elsewhere? When does a newborn witness the passport office of the country of his birth? Obama cannot be accused of lying about his birth or his parentage. He can only tell us what his mom told him and what his birth certificate states. If anyone here can prove that they know their birth place and parents as newborns, then such folk are welcome to sue Obama, Donald Trump is willing to fund. The same Trump who called for a Treasonous revolution.

Obama values Human Freedom, so he is going to meet Suu Kyi by going to Burma. No elitist GOP chief would go to Burma.

Obama has his flaws, he cannot walk on water. But this man will not pollute the water supply of his citizens. His very existence at the top is burning away so much bad karma of the slave era USA, and he is helping burn the hatred against him for being Black to this very day by millions of GOP Right Wing elitists. Those who hate him should actually be thanking him for winning.

posted November 10, 2012 04:11 AM            

Whoa, that ignores a lot of history. So much history. As just one of MANY examples (and those are just the ones I can recall offhand), the Vietnam War was based somewhat on lies (a fake Gulf of Tonkin incident) just like the Iraq War (lies of WoMD). I hate comparing apples to oranges but this strikes me as the same kind of evil that you don't think should've been possible, so it should count. And more to compare & contrast:
http://hnn.us/articles/17648.html

Plus, Vietnam had its own atrocities in which the perpetrators got away with it (the only one convicted was fully pardoned by Nixon soon after, IIRC):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

(Btw, fun fact, Tex Watson of the Manson family actually thought they were going to get off because if soldiers could get away with that massacre, then what was just a few people the Manson family killed? Strikes me as funny how naive even cold blooded killers can sometimes be.)

And that's just one of many examples of why I can't buy the above. But if you'd like to know more reasons why I can't believe that America is somehow protected from evil presidents (though I understand if you don't) then Lies My Teacher Told Me is a really good book that doesn't get too depressing (and even that misses a lot).

I also question many other assertions, like not being able to lie when hugging someone to get a vote, I just don't buy that. And if what you say is true, then why can't these elected officials tell us what's going on? It just doesn't make any sense. Every time I read it I find it makes even less sense than before. (ETA: it's a new day and had plenty of sleep and it still doesn't make sense to me.)

posted November 10, 2012 06:16 AM            

Look at the response of the World. Are you not happy that we all like America so much more now than under George Dubya Bush ?

Step 1 is successful. Positive Vibes towards USA. Call him a good guy or a lesser evil, it is still a huge leap ahead.

Better for working class and middle class Americans to set a political agenda than for Benjamin Netanyahu to drag Romney and his elite buddies by the leash and impose WW3 on the Planet to satisfy his own right wing hawks. Obama is teaching you that you do not have to be an elite to succeed. He is a one man "victim mindset release" for the masses.

By choosing Obama, Americans have said no to WW3. This automatically makes America a Great Nation in terms of Global Responsibility.

Drone Attacks will stop in less than 12 months, just watch and keep an eye on Imran Khan [praying the Taliban do not finish him]. Keep an eye on Rahul Gandhi in India who arranged a huge strategy meet 2 days after Obama's win. And China is changing for the better, the moment Obama victory news came. Putin sacked two corrupt defense chiefs just now.
CIA chief David Petreaus has resigned under a cover story of an affair. How many more signs are needed that a weeding process has started ?
The corrupt members of the global military and finance bigwigs were hoping to cash in on a GOP win by creating a huge World War but a Shift in Consciousness Occurred the moment Obama won.
In the coming weeks, there might be actin against the Fat Cats who paid tons to Romney so that they could start speculating with Taxpayer funds all over again.

Overall, it is not just about Obama, it is an equal credit to every single voter of his.
Think of their thought process when they voted for him. They did not want to be looked down upon by an elitist, rich, old white male clan.
They have been abused by this deplorable right wing types. So they voted for fairness.
They voted for freedom from being looked down upon. Freedom from Arrogant Views. Freedom from fear of losing everything in a bad time.
Women voted for their self respect.
Any Obama Voter [who is not a politician ] just cannot be a bad human being.

Edit: Those who are uncomfortable at my writing something nice about Obama, take a look in this forum. More than 1000 hate filled posts against him. Think if his children were reading here, and their dad is called "O Bomber" un-apologetically. How would you feel if your dad was vilified even when he has not curbed anyone's freedom of speech in abusing him? In India, one personal insult tweet against a Minister's son led to an arrest. Look at how much greater your country is, and how can the leader of this country popularly elected TWICE be evil?

The most gracious thing to do is to heartily congratulate this winner.

We have allowed 1000+ nasty posts with personal animosity against a man democratically elected by what is still the world's number one country. It is the right action to balance with posts of the objectively verifiable good potential of Obama.

@Lonake: Thanks You understand me very well.
------------------
Astrology Articles

posted November 10, 2012 06:58 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:
Faith, you will get no compassion from the Obama supporters here concerning innocent lives taken by drone attacks. To them, Obama can do no wrong. He walks on water.

---

Thanks, Randall, for stating what I am sadly starting to suspect is the case: no criticism of this President is tolerated.

It is all likened to other criticism that is either rooted in hate (like racism) or comes from the mouth of people who have their facts wrong. Legitimate criticism cannot just be left to stand there without petty objections trying to knock it down.

Imagine if Bill Clinton sat there week after week openly deciding to kill people, MOST of whom turn out to be innocent victims. Wouldn't everyone be outraged? Or what if we learned that Reagan had been doing that secretly, wouldn't that be the end of his reputation?

But Obama does it, and the people cry, "He has to!" without even realizing that more evidence is needed to support that kind of assertion. WHY does he have to? Come on, people, this is important, at least HONOR that it's important by trying to build an intelligent case for it! Don't just say, "It's the best path," and leave it at that!

Whatever happened to snipers, assassination, and careful plots to lure suspects into a place where they can be captured? Why this atrocious murdering of civilians on an ongoing basis? "Oops we killed twenty children and only meant to get that one rebel."

The APATHY about that is more frightening than the drones, it's more ominous than the drones.

posted November 10, 2012 07:03 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PixieJane:
Too bad Iran wasn't mentioned, I still recall how Iran mistook our Onion for a real news source and its major paper published how the Red States preferred Ahmadinejad to Obama (from "Ahmadinejad knows how to treat the gays" to "at least he admits he's a Muslim"), which Ahmadinejad then cited to international news agencies quite pleased with himself.

---

posted November 10, 2012 08:58 AM            

quote:

---

I am sadly starting to suspect is the case: no criticism of this President is tolerated.

---

IQ

quote:

---

Vigilant Criticism is certainly necessary

---

Criticism can be a healthy tool to exploring the differences people have.
OR it may be the tool used to keep beating the other party over the head. Rather with bellicose arguments supported by their sides "facts" or with politically correct couched wording with their facts, it becomes just another stale mate.

Rather like the current Goverment, yes?

I suspect we all can agree the drone attacks are sanitized murder.?(using this example only because there are such strong nayer or yayers)
Yet some claim a reason or defense of them. Is there a valid reason why it can`t be taken at face value and call a spade a spade?

Why do we lean toward defending the indefensible to support our "man or position"?

Lets call a much needed truce and get to the heart of the issues and get this country running again.