posted November 14, 2012 01:31 PM            

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It seems pretty clear to me that you will think whatever you want, nobody's going to change that. You actually LACK curiosity, you are only interested in seeing evidence that your biases are being confirmed (even if they're not. You will just interpret things along that avenue because you have an ego problem...frankly. AcousticGod.)

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That's not true. You know that I've investigated your claims in the past. That's typical behavior for me.

As far as whether it convinces me to change opinion, that's a process that involves testing the information against other information. I don't know how many times I've asked people to prove to me the worthiness or the superiority of their position. Right, Ami? If I'm irrational, people should be able to point it out. On occasions when they do, I give it up to them. Otherwise, there's no credibility. This idea that I'm merely stubborn is based on people not being able to hurdle rational objections (or prove that no such rational objection should exist).

Randall, awhile back, had the notion that perhaps he could trap me in a logical inconsistency with my observance of astrology in spite of the evidence against astrology. That's a tough proposition to argue against. I do follow astrology because of something that seems irrational to some scientific minds. That's fair. I follow it primarily, however, because there's some observable truth there. It requires some in depth observation, but it's there (as evidenced by thousands if not millions of people worldwide). That kind of observation isn't what people out to disprove it go for, however. Either it's about whether planets could define such things (which does seem rather crazy), or interpretations being too loose (and people being able to rationalize what they hear). I don't have anything to break the stalemate there. I had an a-ha moment, and I've studied people with astrology in mind ever since. I always do leave room for a person to define themselves, however.

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So you got started liking Obama and your pride prevents you from admitting you ever made a mistake? So you go to ridiculous lengths defending this chump?

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No. That's a good example of YOU seeing what you want to see. I support Obama because he's a Democrat. If he were changed out for a different Democrat, I'd support that person. That's not a matter of being stubborn towards a party. It's a matter of being practical about what our real choices are (no pie in the sky picking of third candidates I know are going nowhere), and sticking by the philosophy of the party that better reflects who I am. I'm very conservative by nature, but I'm not close-minded, I'm not intolerant, I don't long for a make-believe past, I know that everything in life is experimentation, and I know that certain attitudes are more beneficial than others.

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Seems you are *fearful* of being caught totally duped and wrong. Why? Maybe you catch glimmers of the fact that you are, indeed, duped and wrong. COLOSSALLY. And you spend a lot of time here just delaying coming to terms with it.

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posted November 14, 2012 02:32 PM            

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Originally posted by ghanima81:
Watching two Capricorns argue is like watching a blind dog try to walk down a hallway but it keeps hitting the wall over and over and over again.

I think both of you are endlessly curious and interesting. I hope you find the doorway.

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You're so much better than us!

posted November 14, 2012 04:32 PM            

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Originally posted by ghanima81:
Watching two Capricorns argue is like watching a blind dog try to walk down a hallway but it keeps hitting the wall over and over and over again.

I think both of you are endlessly curious and interesting. I hope you find the doorway.

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ghani, being Cappy rising, I know that hallway with AG all too well! But I differ because sometimes (often?) I see the seriousness of us and get tickled and find the sanest, most logical statement a hoot . Perhaps weakening my own credibility
I love clean logic and he has a fine supply.

posted November 14, 2012 04:47 PM            

It appeals to my 10th house sun and Venus in Cap.

Then all the 11th house action with Mars/Mercury in Aquarius. I can't help but be interested in both sides of any argument, and to want everyone to get along! lol

posted November 14, 2012 05:07 PM            

So my comment is both cheeky and sincere.

I have Aquarius Mercury.

Aquarian = contrarian.

But I like for people to resolve their differences or at least find a way to respect each other, too.

posted November 14, 2012 05:21 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
I'm really sorry I came off like that. I have 3H Pluto and really have to watch myself because my tone can sound harsher than I ever intended. Such was the case here, I was tone deaf to my derision, and not disliking you or meaning to disrespect you in the process.

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No worries. 3H Pluto, eh? Makes sense now

posted November 14, 2012 05:29 PM            

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Originally posted by juniperb:
On a side note I would like to say I have thoroughly enjoyed this debate and want to extend my appreciation for Knowflakes sharing and courtesy here .

Rather I agree or not with one`s politics/beliefs here, the extent of respect, clarity, and patience shown is inspiring!!

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Agree!! Very informative and at times, hugely entertaining discussion! Not to make fun of anyone but I laugh easily, and sometimes find the most inane things hilarious!

posted November 14, 2012 05:36 PM            

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Originally posted by ghanima81:
Watching two Capricorns argue is like watching a blind dog try to walk down a hallway but it keeps hitting the wall over and over and over again.

I think both of you are endlessly curious and interesting. I hope you find the doorway.

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I think you nailed it, ghanima!

posted November 14, 2012 05:40 PM            

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Originally posted by katatonic:
not to defend AG really, he is quite capable, variety of input is important, no?

as to other forums, i may lurk awhile, we'll see! glad you looked in, faith! i feel the need to spend less time online in general and more time enjoying my very magical life..

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Hope you check in often, Kat! I enjoy your posts. So find a balance, quickly will ya, between your real life magic and the dysfunctional magic we can so often represent.

posted November 14, 2012 05:45 PM            

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Originally posted by juniperb:
... I see the seriousness of us and get tickled and find the sanest, most logical statement a hoot . Perhaps weakening my own credibility
I love clean logic and he has a fine supply.

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I get tickled by it too!

That's why I find logical discussions so funny sometimes.

posted November 16, 2012 04:24 PM            

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Originally posted by katatonic:
@faith...a sidenote...lurking in astro yesterday i noted that you apparently have your NN conjunct yesterday's new moon...which puts it conjunct MY MC - and obama's! - and jwhop's AC.

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Hi Kat,

Sorry for the delay, are you still around?

I wanted to draw up my synastry & composite charts with Obama before replying.

O's chart at astro.com is different chart than the one at Astrology Weekly.

But anyway, my NN is at 20 Scorpio, Obama's MC is 0 Sag at astro.com and 28 Scorpio at Astrology Weekly

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Originally posted by katatonic:
speaking of charts involved, one of the reasons i lean to approval of obama is because he, like myself, is a leo ox with aqua rising, a mutable moon and scorp MC.

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Okay. I'm pretty sure Napolean was a Leo/Ox, do you lean to approval of him as well?

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Originally posted by katatonic:
he also has jupiter in the 12th..as i do. these things make him somewhat familiar to me and i can understand completely that much about this president is just plain NOT SEEN because he doesn't push it on people publicly.

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Well, you have your reasons!

I ought to clarify that I find the President very attractive. I am a Cap/Rabbit like Michele Obama. And my Mars is widely conjunct his moon, which makes me physically attracted to him. My Venus/Neptune and Jupiter trine his sun.

My ASC is conjunct his sun and DSC.

My husband's sun is almost conjunct his sun, so I am familiar with that energy.

In composite, the President and I have Libra sun conjunct Saturn very tight in the 6H, opposite 12H Aries moon.

The composite moon is conjunct my natal Chiron.

We have composite Mars in the 3H, square the nodal axis. 'Can't get to where we need to be because we're arguing?

posted November 16, 2012 04:51 PM            

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
And I see in other conversations you're having that the same conversation is happening less overtly.

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Where?

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
That's not true. You know that I've investigated your claims in the past. That's typical behavior for me.

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Investigate and dismiss for spurious reasons is typical for you. Elena Kagan was not appointed to the Supreme Court because she comes from a powerful neocon family, you argued. It's because she's a Taurus. Even though there was a debate raging about her lack of serious credentials, you still think she was the right woman for the job because...she is a Taurus.

And now, after looking at the MIAC report, you still say you think that profiling based on one's support for a candidate is not happening. I see a pattern of denying reality when it goes against your preconceived notions of how things are.

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
As far as whether it convinces me to change opinion, that's a process that involves testing the information against other information.

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If you say so.

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
I don't know how many times I've asked people to prove to me the worthiness or the superiority of their position. Right, Ami? If I'm irrational, people should be able to point it out.

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I have pointed it out.

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
On occasions when they do, I give it up to them.

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Not to me, you haven't.

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
That's a good example of YOU seeing what you want to see. I support Obama because he's a Democrat. If he were changed out for a different Democrat, I'd support that person.

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That's like making the Democratic Party your religion. I can't relate to identity politics, carried to that extent.

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
It's a matter of being practical about what our real choices are (no pie in the sky picking of third candidates I know are going nowhere), and sticking by the philosophy of the party that better reflects who I am.

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LOL. It's pie in the sky to think your vote even counts, in the age of electronic voting machines, but whatever.

Thanks for explaining. Your whole rationale in voting is so different from mine, it makes no sense to me at all.

posted November 16, 2012 05:46 PM            

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Where?

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With regard to Elena Kagan, almost anything is a better argument than the one you put forward in making it out to be a conspiracy. Conspiracies tend to lack common sense, and this one was no different.

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And now, after looking at the MIAC report, you still say you think that profiling based on one's support for a candidate is not happening. I a pattern of denying reality when it goes against your preconceived notions of how things are.

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The MIAC report, which I posted, confirms what I said. Denying reality is saying that it amounts to an active profiling when it explicitly doesn't. That wasn't simply my impression either, but the testimony of people familiar with the MIAC pamphlet.

Hotz said using those or similar factors to determine whether someone could be a terrorist is not profiling. He said people who display signs or bumper stickers from such groups are not in danger of harassment from police.

“It’s giving the makeup of militia members and their political beliefs,” Hotz said of the report. “It’s not saying that everybody who supports these candidates is involved in a militia. It’s not even saying that all militias are bad.”

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I have pointed it out.

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I don't believe that the feedback you've received confirms this point.

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Not to me, you haven't.

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I guess I'm not yet convinced that you're right, that you are looking at things more fairly, more tolerantly, or with a more balanced perspective.

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That's like making the Democratic Party your religion. I can't relate to identity politics, carried to that extent.

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On the one hand I disagree with you, because religion isn't what I think of in politics typically. On the other hand, I was raised Christian, and Jesus would certainly be a liberal. Philosophically, Jesus and I would be the same in that regard.

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LOL. It's pie in the sky to think your vote even counts, in the age of electronic voting machines, but whatever.

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Cynical much?

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Your whole rationale in voting is so different from mine, it makes no sense to me at all.

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posted January 02, 2013 09:21 AM            

*sarcasm, obviously*

posted January 02, 2013 09:26 AM            

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