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Author
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Topic: Slew Of Companies Reducing Employee Hours to Under 30--One Chain Adds Surcharge Also!
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AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 7132
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 16, 2012 01:49 PM
  
quote:
What does logic have to do with your refusal to like the system the way it was before ObamaCare?
Well, as I look around the world at all the healthcare systems in place, their cost, and their efficacy I gather that our country's healthcare -both pre and post Obamacare- isn't very competitive. We have good facilities, equipment, and drugs. Despite this we trail other countries on every critical aspect of healthcare. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 7132
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 16, 2012 01:52 PM
Randall, I just looked up Metz's company, too. Check it out:
http://www.rremcrestaurants.com/benefits.php How politically motivated do his statements look now, when compared with the reality of what he offers? IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 24289
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 16, 2012 01:56 PM
It doesn't take good qualified people to deliver pizzas or wait tables. It's not rocket science. We can expect there to be turnover with part-time minimum wage employees. Retention isn't worth the cost of insurance.IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 7132
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 16, 2012 02:18 PM
That doesn't really bolster your argument. I'm sure an argument could be made for having qualified people wait tables, but it's beside the point. I'm sure the argument could also be made that neither wait staff nor pizza delivery drivers typically have full time positions to begin with. IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 24289
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 16, 2012 03:49 PM
Apparently they do, since Papa John's is a pizza place, and he is lowering hours to under 30. I used to be a server, and many of us worked 40-50 hours per week. If not delivery drivers, then pizza makers. Whoever. The point is that these are not skilled positions involving years of education and training. They don't historically receive health benefits. Nor does that change simply because I go from one location to a dozen...or a few employees to 51. The positions remain the same. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 7132
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 16, 2012 04:46 PM
Unless what I read is incorrect, he actually supposed that franchisers would lower hours to 30. Papa John's corporate has fine benefits as I posted.I have trouble with the servers analogy all around. Not only are they not generally full time workers, but they're also -in many if not most cases- tip earners that make more than the average person doing a similar amount of labor. Talk about a group poised to game the system. They'll be able to work less than full time, claim their wages [not including tips] put them at poverty-level income, and still keep all that extra pay they receive via tips. That totals heavily subsidized healthcare plus a living wage. I wonder how they don't make out. IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Knowflake Posts: 1409
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted November 16, 2012 08:24 PM
Just out of curiosity, how many businesses did something similar in Romney's state after Romneycare passed? IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 24289
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 16, 2012 08:56 PM
They have to report their tips up to minimum wage at least. They don't just report their wages ($2.13 an hour). IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 24289
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 16, 2012 09:22 PM
I take it back then. Workers who live paycheck to paycheck on 40 hours a week and overtime will do just great on only 30 hours a week.IP: Logged |
pire
Knowflake Posts: 2020
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 16, 2012 09:28 PM
Are some people paid 2$something per hour in the US? ???
If I were in power, I'd close places that do that. Why are they even opening? To use electricity? IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 24289
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 16, 2012 09:33 PM
Servers typically get $2.13 an hour, because they also get tips.If the assertion that most large companies already provide insurance is true, then why are so many large companies saying they are dropping employee hours to under 30? Companies like Darden Restaurants (Red Lobster and Olive Garden, among others). IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 24289
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 16, 2012 09:38 PM
And there's a big difference between corporate having health insurance and paying to insure every worker. The jobs at corporate differ greatly from the jobs at franchisee locations. IP: Logged |
Faith
Knowflake Posts: 3023
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted November 17, 2012 11:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by AcousticGod:
Well, as I look around the world at all the healthcare systems in place, their cost, and their efficacy I gather that our country's healthcare -both pre and post Obamacare- isn't very competitive. We have good facilities, equipment, and drugs. Despite this we trail other countries on every critical aspect of healthcare.
Apart from Germany, we probably have the most advanced health care, brought to you in part by the nature of the market that gave rise to it. Now we are going to drastically change that market and cannot expect the same edge with the facilities, technology, etc. But Germany still has problems, like elderly people not being eligible for treatments under universal insurance, which they debatably need, but are being forced to pay for out of pocket. Health care in Canada and England is not as high quality, nor as accessible, as we have in America. So, to offer health care to more people, we will probably have to lower the quality and accessibility, as other countries have. Nowhere in this world do we have a utopia of free, good health care for all, that is financially sustainable for the country. What makes anyone think we'll achieve it? We're just plain old special?
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Faith
Knowflake Posts: 3023
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted November 17, 2012 11:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
I take it back then. Workers who live paycheck to paycheck on 40 hours a week and overtime will do just great on only 30 hours a week.
Exactly. AND they can thank Obama! 
IP: Logged |
Faith
Knowflake Posts: 3023
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted November 17, 2012 11:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
Just out of curiosity, how many businesses did something similar in Romney's state after Romneycare passed?
Good question...can't find any information on that. National franchises may have cut hours without advertising the fact because it may have looked seedy. With so much public opposition to ObamaCare now, it's more acceptable for these franchises to complain now and be open about the coping strategies they'll resort to? Just guessing. IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Knowflake Posts: 1409
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted November 17, 2012 05:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Good question...can't find any information on that.National franchises may have cut hours without advertising the fact because it may have looked seedy. With so much public opposition to ObamaCare now, it's more acceptable for these franchises to complain now and be open about the coping strategies they'll resort to? Just guessing.
My thought was either something similar did happen but the conservative media (mostly owned directly by Romney's cronies) didn't want to make Romney look bad so kept quiet about it (and back then they described it as promoting responsibility by forcing people to buy insurance rather than freeloading off the taxpayers later while liberals decried it as heartless until Obama did the same and then both sides reversed their opinion on it showing the party matters more than action) OR that those making large cuts now aren't doing this over Obamacare but rather over Obama. But your guess strikes me as another viable possibility. IP: Logged |
pire
Knowflake Posts: 2020
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 17, 2012 07:12 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_France How dare you not mention healthcare in France? Merci  IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 7132
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 17, 2012 07:53 PM
It's interesting that Metz's company and Darden restaurant are also under siege by their employees already. Looking up Darden in the news showed me that Darden is switching benefits model, but I didn't see word about lowering hours. Ok, I just added "30" to the search, and found one article.
quote:
And there's a big difference between corporate having health insurance and paying to insure every worker. The jobs at corporate differ greatly from the jobs at franchisee locations.
That's irrelevant overall if the intent is that every worker ought to have health insurance. The type of job makes little difference. It's hard not to see this fight as getting restaurant in line with most other industries. Why should you lose access to employer benefits simply because you work in food serving? Faith, I think you should consider studying the healthcare of the world some more. quote:
I take it back then. Workers who live paycheck to paycheck on 40 hours a week and overtime will do just great on only 30 hours a week.
Or they can work two jobs or more, which a lot of them already do.  IP: Logged |
ghanima81
Moderator Posts: 1057
From: Maine
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 17, 2012 09:38 PM
I worked as a server for 13 years. I know there was insurance offered to workers who put in 32 or more hours when I worked for Bonefish Grill, which is part of a large corporate entity (which owns Outback, Cheeseburger in Paradise, and a few others). At the time, I opted to not get the insurance and instead paid on a sliding scale to go to the local clinic if I needed medical attention. I know MANY who did get the insurance, but to me it didn't make financial sense. I made good money too. The general "rule" with claiming tips was to claim ALL credit card tips, or at least 10% of sales. Most people made more than that and as Randall said, were able to make out pretty well as far as staying "below poverty" level when tax season arrived. It must have been a bonus if they had kids. There are loopholes in the food service industry, for sure. I am sure most would be glad to have insurance, and its shady as heck that companies are pulling this "limit on hours" crap so they don't have to insure their workers.. its like sending jobs overseas, just trying to save a buck... imo. But what do I know? IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 24289
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 17, 2012 09:48 PM
It's quite relevant since I am explaining why they (and other companies) provide health insurance at the corporate level and why it has historically not been feasible for them to provide it for low wage employees. IP: Logged |
Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 38895
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted November 17, 2012 10:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Exactly. AND they can thank Obama!
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Randall
Webmaster Posts: 24289
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 17, 2012 10:15 PM
That's weird. Because I had no trouble pulling up oodles of articles on Darden shifting to under 30 hours. It's being tested in four markets. As far as medium sized businesses go, some of them will lay off employees to stay below 50. Then it's okay to give the rest more hours. IP: Logged |
Faith
Knowflake Posts: 3023
From:
Registered: Jul 2011
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posted November 17, 2012 10:18 PM
AG,Which country has the best socialized health care system, in your opinion? I'll research that one first. True, employees whose hours get cut because of ObamaCare can just go find another job, assuming jobs are available. But it's definitely another hassle, losing hours from one job, having to find another, re-working the schedule, and paying for transportation (usually.) I mean, are we talking about being kind to the underprivileged people or not? IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 24289
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 17, 2012 10:50 PM
I forgot to mention that. Servers do have to report all CC sales. Technically, if they don't make at least minimum wage in tips, then the employer must make up for it. There are slow times when the server makes nothing. They will typically do side work at $2.13 an hour when it's slow. But if they don't still report tips equaling minimum wage, they can be terminated. It's not fair, but in practice, it happens. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod
Knowflake Posts: 7132
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted November 18, 2012 11:53 AM
quote:
Most people made more than that and as Randall said, were able to make out pretty well as far as staying "below poverty" level when tax season arrived.
I was the one saying that. quote:
AG,Which country has the best socialized health care system, in your opinion? I'll research that one first.
Here's the wikipedia on a World Health Organization study and ranking: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Health_Organization_ranking_of_health_systems (We're 37th, though there is some critique of how this ranking was put together. France was number one. The year was 2000.) Here's some of the rationale for my belief that Singapore should actually have a higher ranking: http://www.american.com/archive/2008/may-june-magazine-contents/the-singapore-model Here's one man's opinion on why we should go the Swiss route: http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2011/04/29/why-switzerland-has-the-worlds- best-health-care-system/ (he claims there are parts that both parties would like, as well as not like making it a win-win) quote:
True, employees whose hours get cut because of ObamaCare can just go find another job, assuming jobs are available. But it's definitely another hassle, losing hours from one job, having to find another, re-working the schedule, and paying for transportation (usually.)I mean, are we talking about being kind to the underprivileged people or not?
So it's kinder to allow them to work 40 hours at minimum wage with no healthcare? I think people will work to the standard of living they desire to have. In no state are you statistically able to live on your own while working 40 hours a week making minimum wage. You have to live with at least one additional person. In my state, Mexicans will work multiple jobs while sharing housing. It's so common here it seemed natural to me to suggest that 30 hour people would look for additional work. IP: Logged |
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