posted December 01, 2012 08:22 AM            

I had said, "The bitterness that comes through when some people talk about the millionaires, I don't think that's healthy."

Then you asked me who is bitter.

My answer to that is, "Some people."

posted December 01, 2012 08:29 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
Actually it`s properly Blackfoot Nation aka Blackfeet refering to a tribe or individual.
http://www.blackfoot.org/greaterblackfootnation.php

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Boy, this is complex because on your link it says:

quote:

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As Niitsitapii we accept as our duty and responsibility, the right to maintain our dignity as a self-sustaining People, for ourselves and the purposes and the purposes of our future generations:

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It's almost as bad as Dutch people being from Holland aka the Netherlands.

posted December 01, 2012 09:35 AM            

quote:

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We call together those who have been members of our alliance (Blackfoot Confederacy) in the ancient past. We call you home to be our relatives in the shinning light of knowledge and the love of our Creator. Once again, we shall live by our sacred vows, spirituality, traditions, and beliefs. We have created a great and powerful nation based upon respect and honor for all beings of Stah-koomi-tapii-akii (Mother Earth) and beyond

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Guess we are just making an attempt at being politically correct

posted December 01, 2012 01:25 PM            

but resent them, no...nor do i think they should spend all their money so the rest of us can sit around and do nothing. no one is ASKING for all their money, only the amount that apparently worked very well before bush. NOT THE 90% they paid in the 40s, 50s and half the 50s when the economy was growing growing growing....and with the loopholes which are always available to those who seek in the right places, it is unlikely that they will even pay the whole $3000 extra out of each $100K over the marker line...which i suspect will be less than 250K by the time it is settled.

however it is also faulty logic to assume that those receiving benefits from the tax system are "doing nothing" or not working. 80% of walmart employees are eligible for foodstamps and families earning a good deal more than the average see their taxes returned via EIC and child credits every year. which they plow back into the economy and complete the circle.

posted December 02, 2012 10:32 PM            

The federal marginal tax rates are going up to 38%. Capital gains at 20%. New York State at 7.85%. New York City at 2.5%. Then there's real estate taxes. And estate taxes. And sales taxes. I can't even take a dump without paying sewer taxes. Taxes on phone calls. Freaking 18.375% to park my car. What the hell.

posted December 02, 2012 10:51 PM            

You can earn the "1% income" cut off in Manhattan of $385K and yet be unable to afford more than a dump of an apartment on the East Side. The average *one bedroom* on the East Side costs $920K, and $400K of gross income results in about $220K in take home pay. That gives one a very good life but hardly makes one "rich."

The small business owner that makes half a million dollars in annual income ploughs at least half of earnings back into the business as additional risk capital. And needs to make payroll. It doesn't make the person rich.

One can earn a lot and spend a lot and not own anything. I know kids who quickly strike it big with 6 figure incomes but squander it all away with fancy apartment rentals and expensive girlfriends. End up being broke a$$es anyway.

Alternatively, one can have no income and yet have a net worth in excess of $200 million, and not invest in the financial markets, make no capital gains and pay absolutely no taxes. Look at Mitt. Soros has a net worth of .. what... $20 billion? He has zero income. No W2. No income taxes. Pays capital gains at a new 20%.

posted December 03, 2012 12:54 AM            

not sure who's hating on you YTA, but it might have more to do with your calling people "shlubs" than your salary.

owning your business has ALWAYS included the expense of paying your employees.

i am curious who, exactly, is forcing you to live in manhattan? and if you realize that manhattanites have been singing the same song forever, even when the top margin was 90%...

i remember my dad moved back into the city when taxes went down to 70%...and lived in a very nice but small studio so he could afford to pay for his family's upkeep and home. what i don't remember was his complaining because he was a new yorker and he knew living in new york is, was and probably ever will be, one of the expensive pleasures of life.

i also know people who have lived forever in rent control apartments in some of the most expensive cities in the country, though those are disappearing.

posted December 03, 2012 08:20 AM            

Not to denigrate the hard work you've done, YTA (and that's not sarcasm - few stay on top without it; even trust fund babies can screw up their ride), but weren't you an Ivy League legacy with a highly successful and well-to-do father and who'd been sent to the best schools available as a child?

Again, I'm not saying that you don't bust your ass or that you don't deserve what you've earned, but I think what rankles some people is their perception that some boast that they hit a triple when they started out second.

posted December 03, 2012 11:19 AM            

That is right. I was born to a wealthy father who grew up penniless and made dough for himself. Indeed I was sent to the very best school and indeed my dad paid for Ivy League college. Having said that, my dad was no George Bush. I got 99% on my SATs and a straight A so that I could get into the Ivy League. And then I busted my rear again and paid for Ivy League graduate school myself. No, I was no Barack Obama, even though we graduated from the same college. I don't know about his GPA, which was probably good, but I got 98% on both GMAT and GRE and I got myself a 3.9 GPA do that I could get accepted into a top business school. And then I worked only 12 to 16 hours a day for 25 more years.

Nothing was handed to me on a silver platter besides high school and college. I worked hard for my career, as hard as anyone can possibly work. I just don't like people begrudging anyone else off success.

Go chase those that need their butts wiped. Like Hollywood.

Yes, the puppets of high taxation, including myself are both schlubs and outright idiots for accepting those tax rates. We are reminded of King George and why America was founded.

posted December 06, 2012 09:14 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
^^. Mockingbird.

That is right. I was born to a wealthy father who grew up penniless and made dough for himself. Indeed I was sent to the very best school and indeed my dad paid for Ivy League college. Having said that, my dad was no George Bush. I got 99% on my SATs and a straight A so that I could get into the Ivy League. And then I busted my rear again and paid for Ivy League graduate school myself. No, I was no Barack Obama, even though we graduated from the same college. I don't know about his GPA, which was probably good, but I got 98% on both GMAT and GRE and I got myself a 3.9 GPA do that I could get accepted into a top business school. And then I worked only 12 to 16 hours a day for 25 more years.

Nothing was handed to me on a silver platter besides high school and college. I worked hard for my career, as hard as anyone can possibly work. I just don't like people begrudging anyone else off success.

Go chase those that need their butts wiped. Like Hollywood.

Yes, the puppets of high taxation, including myself are both schlubs and outright idiots for accepting those tax rates. We are reminded of King George and why America was founded.

The entire Ivy League is 100% need blind. My own friend went to Phillips Exeter and then Yale and then Harvard and then MIT and his parents didnt pay a Dime. It was 100% free. Here is the rub. You need to be that good at your studies. So don't expect me to boo hoo about kids in the ghetto not getting to Harvard. My friend grew up in the South Bronx btw and he so happens to be of Jamaican descent. And he works for Goldman and makes many millions a year and gives half of it away. Now what do you want to call this guy? Everything he touches turns into hold. Tell him he started off on third base??!!??

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You can't honestly say (or shouldn't) that you did it all without help, because you starting out with that and with significant financial backing is help.

If you'll kindly re-read what I wrote, you'll notice that I didn't say that you didn't work for what you have, but (to belabor the metaphor) you at least had great coaches, plenty of batting practice, and the best equipment money can buy.

To belittle those without your advantages or to say that they just "didn't try hard enough" because they're not where you are is asinine, and I should think it beneath you.

I and my family are doing quite well, but I at least acknowledge that a good part of it is due to the struggles of my ancestors and, in no small part, luck; and I will continue to work to ensure that more people get a chance up at bat.

posted December 06, 2012 09:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Katonic, You want to lecture me on finance? Capital investment is from cash flow and not accounting income. You get taxed on net income but your free cash flow is operating earnings add back depreciation subtract increases in net working capital subtract capital expenditures, and then you would still need to meet debt service. I've been doing this crap forever. Please take it easy.

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Ian, if you can deal with this level of ignorance--- more power to you

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted December 06, 2012 09:27 AM            

And, no, your friend's story is amazing, inspiring even.
He reminds me of my great-grandfather who started out in the coal mines at the age of six and, through pure grit (and, if we're honest, probably a few dirty deals) died a multi-millionaire.

BUT not even he did it all on his own.
And, yes, it's right that he pays back to the society of which he is a part, either through charitable contributions or through taxation. (Though what some claim as tax-deductible charitable donations is genuinely cute.)

Perhaps I'm biased, though.
I grew up surrounded by elders who, though they built wealth, all seemed to recognize the need for charity, community, and, yes, governmental action on issues of sufficient size and complexity.
In my living memory, all were relatively liberal, paid their (quarterly) taxes owed...and gave quite a bit to charity.
The tax breaks couldn't have hurt on that front

Really, though, you do complain quite a bit, especially keeping in mind the top tax rates at other times in our history during which we were paying off war debt, paying for a continuing war, and in heavy need of infrastructure improvements.

posted December 06, 2012 09:37 AM            

My main concern with the above is societal instability.
Nations are, in recent history, neither happy nor stable when when extremes become the norm, especially with the level of institutional break down currently evident.

So far, bread and circuses have kept people relatively quiescent, but that will not continue if the current trajectory continues.

posted December 06, 2012 09:46 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
Guess we are just making an attempt at being politically correct

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posted December 06, 2012 12:15 PM            

ami enjoy your spiteful life.

i understand - as i am my own business - taxes too. i may not be a finance whizz kid but i'm not a wage slave either, and i make a lot less than ian does. he doesn't have to live in new york city if he is willing to commute...so the high cost of living in the most expensive place in the country doesn't really make me weep. sorry bout that!

but the raises in taxes on the highest earners are only on what comes AFTER 250K or whatever line they end up drawing...and it leaves a lot more, as ian admits, than what most middle class families have to live on even in podunk.

the richest people in the world understand the ethics of GIVING BACK< PAYING FORWARD, and not whining about the cost of their good fortune.

posted December 06, 2012 12:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mockingbird:
To belittle those without your advantages or to say that they just "didn't try hard enough" because they're not where you are is asinine, and I should think it beneath you.

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At the end of the day, it is test scores and grades that gets one to the very best universities, and the fact remains that the very best universities in America are entirely free if one were good enough. I wasn't smart enough to get a free education, but if I were truly that gifted, you bet I would snap up a free college education.

US test scores are pathetic and public education is even more sad (both my kids go through public education, not some fancy schmancy private school). Incidently, the freshman drop out rate at the Ivy League is 35% for a good reason: some folks don't hack it.

At the end of the day, either you hack it or you don't. No amount of wealth would allow one to magically graduate, unless one were George W. Bush or John Kerry. I don't know what Barack Obama's grades were, but I'm sure they were better than George W. Bush's. Mine were close to the top of my graduating class. I busted my hump off, and every kid in the ghetto is fully capable of busting their butt off to do as well as they aspire *for free* I constantly chew out my son if he doesn't get all As. Opportunity for success in terms of college and hedge fund/i-banking/mgmt consulting/law firm is concerned has *nothing* to do with family wealth, or lack thereof. Complainers and haters will always remain whiners and haters.