posted January 10, 2013 07:07 PM            

Granted, they only meant white males (often landowning, meaning 21 and older). And as anyone who reads L. Neil Smith (or listened to Thom Hartman yesterday) knows, the armed militia was used by George Washington to crush the Whiskey Rebellion (that is people who refused to pay taxes on their whiskey to the government), which is an excellent example between the theory (what I sometimes call "the pamphlet") and actual practice.

That said, the gun control laws have (historically speaking in the USA anyway) almost always been to continue the supremacy of whites (especially white males) over everyone else (as just one example, the Gun Control Act of 1968 was aimed at cheap "Saturday Night Specials" which would make it much harder for minorities to arm themselves while many whites had no such problem). The attitude is a vestige of the SCOTUS Dred Scott vs. Sandford case (and I expect most founding fathers would've agreed with it) that said blacks (free as well as slave) couldn't have rights because if they did then they could speak privately & publicly as well as bear arms (and given successful slave rebellion that became a revolution in Haiti, America was rightfully scared of something similar happening in their own country, though of course freeing the slaves and treating them as human beings so that such drastic measures, vicious karma, and hatred as carried out by slaves turned masters in Haiti never happened just weren't considered, the ******** ). That is to say the US Government has long seen it desirable to practice tyranny (such as racial oppression) over an unarmed populace than an armed one.

posted January 10, 2013 07:21 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
moreover, the fireams allowed are the type used to hunt, not one you can hide in your bag or in your jean's to play in your head a bad remake of dirty harry.

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Just curious...a woman I knew carried concealed (that means a handgun) and one day came home to find an intruder there. This woman was elderly at the time, small and with arthritis, and the man within was obviously hoping to enjoy her terror, whatever it was he planned to do to her. What he planned isn't known because she pulled her pistol out and the home intruder ran. So if it was in your power would you have removed that gun from her possession and let the man have his way? And would you tell her in all sincerity that "the only purpose of a gun is to kill" even though the purpose she used it for was to save her own life and that she didn't fire?

posted January 10, 2013 07:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Just curious...a woman I knew carried concealed (that means a handgun) and one day came home to find an intruder there. This woman was elderly at the time, small and with arthritis, and the man within was obviously hoping to enjoy her terror, whatever it was he planned to do to her. What he planned isn't known because she pulled her pistol out and the home intruder ran. So if it was in your power would you have removed that gun from her possession and let the man have his way? And would you tell her in all sincerity that "the only purpose of a gun is to kill" even though the purpose she used it for was to save her own life and that she didn't fire?

Unfortunately, the intruder got away despite a timely arrival of the police whom she'd immediately called, so he remained at large. How do you think he would answer the above questions?

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posted January 10, 2013 08:11 PM            

is it okay for people to let their maladjusted children handle the family guns?
and have 24/7 access to them?

the question is NOT about confiscation of everyone's guns but about how to make life safer for those who a)choose not to carry! and b) are minding their own business.

but i see it is pointless to try to talk reasonably about a subject when people have made up their minds that their little props are ALL IMPORTANT. they are NOT.

posted January 10, 2013 08:49 PM            

a minute ago you were shrieking about obama signing it, when a veto against a bill that ALREADY HAS A SUPER MAJORITY is a waste of ink.

and now some paranoid gun freaks would like to impeach diane feinstein, one of the handful of senators who voted against it and tried to amend it.

posted January 10, 2013 08:58 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
you have me confused with someone else. jwhop considered that clause all fine and dandy and no threat to american citizens. i was the one who was outraged that CONGRESS VOTED ALMOST UNANIMOUSLY for it.

a minute ago you were shrieking about obama signing it, when a veto against a bill that ALREADY HAS A SUPER MAJORITY is a waste of ink.

and now some paranoid gun freaks would like to impeach diane feinstein, one of the handful of senators who voted against it and tried to amend it.

once again, randall, i realize there's little point in us talking, since you insist on talking to the guy behind me and three feet to the left...

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That is the guy I see, too

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posted January 10, 2013 09:05 PM            

Failing that learn a lesson from the NRA and make some improvised and homemade weapons such as zipguns or even the old the British Sten gun aka "The plumbers nightmare".

You wouldn't believe how heavily regulated gun control is in Canada and yet we do still have mass shootings and murders. Although at a lower frequency.

Yet guns and illegal weapons still continue to get smuggled in from the US, including assault weapons which are prohibited.

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
.......In fact, semiautomatic handguns are far more prevalent in mass shootings. .....

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That is correct handguns are more frequently found in murders because the weapon is easier to conceal and hide.

You'll be easily spotted and apprehended if you had a rifle.

I challenge anyone on lindaland to run out on a public street with a rifle and attempt not to be spotted.

90% of all the murders in Canada, most of which are gang related and have involved a handgun.

There have been some murders involving hunting rifles, but the frequency is extremely low.

quote:

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Originally posted by iQ:
I am in favor of all citizens having the right to protect themselves and their homes. If this can be done by advanced Tasers that stun an attacker, then so be it. But let me assume that Gun Control never occurs, and that every Conservative arms himself with a semi-automatic weapon. Let's say that the US Government wants to put down a Citizen's revolt against a Law. Lets say that the Federal Cops or the Army are shot at by the well armed NRA member citizens.

Are all NRA supporters so brainless to think that the US Government cannot put down any armed citizen's revolt with the sophisticated weapons they have?

The US Government has
1. Laser Weapons from Satellites that can blind any bunch of attackers for several dozens of meters.
2. Microwave weapons that fry the guns, making them impossible to hold.
3. Drones to blast armed revolt.

If the US government wants to put down an armed revolt, they will, even if every protestor is armed with a dozen AK 47s.

The only weapon for a true US Citizen is True Knowledge. With the true knowledge, let every citizen vote for a Ron Paul type in any political party. There will not be the need for guns nor gun control if the right people are elected.

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I couldn't agree more.

I doubt that most NRA supporters even realize that the true reason why the NRA was founded was because of the poor performance of Union soldiers and there ability to handle a rifle during the civil war.

Katonic,

I understand how you feel I have center-lefitist views, but there is no fine balance
not in the USA anymore.

You'll be pushed into a position to either accept either extreme left or right.

I think you should move to Canada were even the most extreme conservative here would be considered moderate in American terms.

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Capircorn Rising
Gemini Sun, 5th House
Aries Moon
Mercury in Gemini
Venus In Taurus

posted January 11, 2013 03:23 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
i was the one who was outraged that CONGRESS VOTED ALMOST UNANIMOUSLY for it.

a minute ago you were shrieking about obama signing it, when a veto against a bill that ALREADY HAS A SUPER MAJORITY is a waste of ink.

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Just out of curiosity, why weren't you outraged with Obama as well?

posted January 11, 2013 06:17 AM            

Let me take the debate to the next level.

What if a Black Philanthropist decided to arm every African American with an AK56 citing 2nd Amendment rights?

What if every Pakistani, Palestinian, Arab and Iranian Muslim who happens to be a USA Citizen bought a truckload of AK56s citing his or her 2nd Amendment Rights?

Would the Bible-Thumping, Rush Limbaugh fan club come out in support of the above three cases?

American Laws apply equally to Israeli Supporters and to Israeli Opponents.

IMHO, it is wisest for the US Government to have the big guns. Let the voters vote smartly and ensure that the good human beings have access to the big guns.

I think the anti-Obama camp is spoiling for some kind of Civil War with the elected US Government. It is very childish to think of waging war against a huge, elected government that has the greatest arsenal of death in human history. It is a death wish.

Instead, wage war on the real tyranny, the Banking System that is fleecing Americans by charging compound interest on the interest of non-existent sum of "fractional reserve" money [because it is not backed by anything of value].

Instead of giving cash away to gun sellers, to insurance companies and to Wall Street, take your entire cash out and maintain it in a safe at home. Or use a cooperative bank. Punish the Federal Reserve Banks. Claim the interest paid to Federal Reserve since 1913 back with interest

Stop using credit cards, stop taking loans that need payment of interest. Now that would really bring power back to the people.

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Astrology Articles

posted January 11, 2013 08:02 AM            

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted January 11, 2013 08:03 AM            

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted January 11, 2013 08:12 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by iQ:
I am not against individual hand guns for personal protection, PixieJane gave a relevant example. But nobody here has given a logical reason to support the right of citizens possessing weapons of war like AK-56/47 assault rifles. If Assault Rifles are to be permitted, would missiles and RPGs be permitted?
And if yes, what next, Dirty Bombs? Bio weapons? Full fledged Nukes?

Let me take the debate to the next level.

What if a Black Philanthropist decided to arm every African American with an AK56 citing 2nd Amendment rights?

What if every Pakistani, Palestinian, Arab and Iranian Muslim who happens to be a USA Citizen bought a truckload of AK56s citing his or her 2nd Amendment Rights?

Would the Bible-Thumping, Rush Limbaugh fan club come out in support of the above three cases?

American Laws apply equally to Israeli Supporters and to Israeli Opponents.

IMHO, it is wisest for the US Government to have the big guns. Let the voters vote smartly and ensure that the good human beings have access to the big guns.

I think the anti-Obama camp is spoiling for some kind of Civil War with the elected US Government. It is very childish to think of waging war against a huge, elected government that has the greatest arsenal of death in human history. It is a death wish.

Instead, wage war on the real tyranny, the Banking System that is fleecing Americans by charging compound interest on the interest of non-existent sum of "fractional reserve" money [because it is not backed by anything of value].

Instead of giving cash away to gun sellers, to insurance companies and to Wall Street, take your entire cash out and maintain it in a safe at home. Or use a cooperative bank. Punish the Federal Reserve Banks. Claim the interest paid to Federal Reserve since 1913 back with interest

Stop using credit cards, stop taking loans that need payment of interest. Now that would really bring power back to the people.

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posted January 11, 2013 08:47 AM            

quote:

---

I am not against individual hand guns for personal protection, PixieJane gave a relevant example. But nobody here has given a logical reason to support the right of citizens possessing weapons of war like AK-56/47 assault rifles. If Assault Rifles are to be permitted, would missiles and RPGs be permitted?
And if yes, what next, Dirty Bombs? Bio weapons? Full fledged Nukes?

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IQ, loved the analogy in your entire post!

posted January 11, 2013 08:56 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Most people live by lower laws. Most people live by hate.

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Do you really believe that, Ami?

If so, I'm sorry.

I know a few who live with a great deal of fear, but hate consumes.

I know that we believe differently in a number of areas, but please know that I am being nothing but truthful when I say that I know that the fabric of the Universe is love.
When I had my NDE, I was instantly - well, "immersed" is the wrong word, but I was instantly "in" it.
Agape love.
It was like the water surrounding a fish or the air which we breathe - at once our habitat and necessary for existence.

I'm not very knowledgeable or wise, but it seems to me that part of what this life's about is learning to manifest that love.

posted January 11, 2013 09:04 AM            

quote:

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And the proposals that Biden said he will present to the president have broad public support. A majority of Americans support requiring background checks for all gun buyers, which would happen if Congress closes the current gun show loophole that allows about 40 percent of firearms to be sold without a background check. Most people also said they would support banning ammunition magazines that carry more than 10 bullets.

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Thats all I`m asking for....

posted January 11, 2013 09:17 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mockingbird:
Do you really believe that, Ami?

If so, I'm sorry.

I know a few who live with a great deal of fear, but hate consumes.

I know that we believe differently in a number of areas, but please know that I am being nothing but truthful when I say that I know that the fabric of the Universe is love.
When I had my NDE, I was instantly - well, "immersed" is the wrong word, but I was instantly "in" it.
Agape love.
It was like the water surrounding a fish or the air which we breathe - at once our habitat and necessary for existence.

I'm not very knowledgeable or wise, but it seems to me that part of what this life's about is learning to manifest that love.

Edited to add: I'd like to make it clear that I'm not implying that you live by hate, but saying that I don't think that most others do, either. It would be an anathema to our being.

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Most people do. Just look at the fights on here, before Randall got really strong and won't allow it. Without a strong head, any organization goes toward disorder. We have peace, now, because of Randall's strength. Multiply this to the world. The people who won't see it are in denial of their own human nature imo

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posted January 11, 2013 12:21 PM            

as to whether i would excuse mccain or romney signing such a document, pixie, i would still see the futility in vetoing it when a smart man would know it was JUST A GESTURE. ox people are not known for making empty gestures just to satisfy their egos. romney vetoed more than 3/4s of the massachussets legislatures bills, and was overriden on most of those...and 5 years later he was talking about how well he worked with those "across the aisle"...

i don't live in a world filled with hate and fear. i am sorry that some here consider that the way it is. perhaps they should stop listening to rush for six weeks they might realize it is the media's GOAL to make you afraid and hateful and to think everyone else hates you. drama sells!

i neither give obama a free pass nor condemn him . i said before he was elected that i don't fully trust anyone who would run for president. i still don't. however i am not ignorant enough to think that anyone in that office is entirely his own master. i see him as a very good chess player and he doesn't always do the obvious thing. that is how he allowed the republicans to mess themselves up to the point that he took the winning hand...