posted January 11, 2013 07:58 PM            

quote:

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The people aren't the source of the scary things happening, the oppressors are, and I see a clear difference with where the blame should go. It's NOT on the victims.

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of your fear, only

check it, have a try, say this sentence again but you must not use the word victim. what do you replace it with?

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may be "fearful persons" fits better?!

posted January 12, 2013 12:20 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
^^

I agree with that, but I perceived Kat as saying Ami was projecting (psychology) rather than evoking (magically creating) her fears into existence.

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Hmmm...I still don't know what she was talking about.

What were you talking about kat??

I'm in league with Ami about being fearful of tyranny, so I'm not sure if your comment applies to all who have fear, or just Ami.

posted January 12, 2013 12:59 AM            

What i object to is people with more wealth and freedoms than much of the world giving up when things are far from tbat poont and reassuring the selves that the "rapture" will take them out of harm's way!

Has either faith or ami read Victor Frankl? Known people who found their true strength in prison? Concern with erosion of liberties i AGREE with, but not throwing up one's hands or caving in to your PROJECTED fears of where it MAY be going.

posted January 12, 2013 07:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Hmmm...I still don't know what she was talking about.

What were you talking about kat??

I'm in league with Ami about being fearful of tyranny, so I'm not sure if your comment applies to all who have fear, or just Ami.

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Ha ha Kat gets herself in a bind

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted January 12, 2013 08:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
I am on my phone so i will be better able to reply tomorrow...but the Tibetans were not afraid of having their guns regulated they were trapped with no escape route by a powerful army. That is one difference that makes the example kind of weak, no offence.

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The US has already basically overwritten the Bill of Rights. If they want to put you in jail indefinitely without trial, they legally can. That is something to be fearful about.

Without the right to bear arms, the situation for us becomes even more precarious. Just as it was for the peaceful Tibetans who, out of choice, remained militarily unprepared for takeover by a sinister government. Once it became evident that the takeover was imminent, Tibet did make the best of its tiny army, and some peasants fought back, but the situation quickly turned horrific.

Here, if we have a government that respects human rights about as much as Mao Tse Tung (meaning, not much...look at the drone attacks in the Middle East) the idea of gun banning becomes more frightful because then we lose all protection from this corrupt gov't. We become sitting ducks.

We become like Tibet while the rogue US gov't becomes like China.

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
What i object to is people with more wealth and freedoms than much of the world giving up when things are far from tbat poont and reassuring the selves that the "rapture" will take them out of harm's way!

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Things are far from that point?? How do you know for sure?

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
Has either faith or ami read Victor Frankl? Known people who found their true strength in prison? Concern with erosion of liberties i AGREE with, but not throwing up one's hands or caving in to your PROJECTED fears of where it MAY be going.

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I have read Man's Search for Meaning, yes. I am somewhat okay with finding my true strength in prison, but I am NOT OKAY with my children being given that "opportunity" so I see *no* positives there.

I still don't understand what you mean about PROJECTED fears, it sounds like you are saying, "all is well, stop worrying" in the face of overwhelming evidence that all is NOT well. So, can you give me an example?

To talk about where things may be going seems perfectly rational to me when the pattern seems to be that every year, more of our rights are thrown in the gutter. To expect that this year we will start reversing all that, when the corporation-run government has the same loyalties as it ever did, seems Neptunian in the extreme.

posted January 12, 2013 09:05 AM            

quote:

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Without the right to bear arms, the situation for us becomes even more precarious. Just as it was for the peaceful Tibetans who, out of choice, remained militarily unprepared for takeover by a sinister government. Once it became evident that the takeover was imminent, Tibet did make the best of its tiny army, and some peasants fought back, but the situation quickly turned horrific.

Here, if we have a government that respects human rights about as much as Mao Tse Tung (meaning, not much...look at the drone attacks in the Middle East) the idea of gun banning becomes more frightful because then we lose all protection from this corrupt gov't. We become sitting ducks.

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so you think you will have more success with your assault weapons against the most powerful army in the world than the tibetan army did, as little or illequipped as it was, against the chinese invaders? seriously? that is your main argument? do you take drugs faith cause that is DELUSIONAL

posted January 12, 2013 09:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I have read Man's Search for Meaning, yes. I am somewhat okay with finding my true strength in prison, but I am NOT OKAY with my children being given that "opportunity" so I see *no* positives there.

I still don't understand what you mean about PROJECTED fears, it sounds like you are saying, "all is well, stop worrying" in the face of overwhelming evidence that all is NOT well. So, can you give me an example?

To talk about where things may be going seems perfectly rational to me when the pattern seems to be that every year, more of our rights are thrown in the gutter. To expect that this year we will start reversing all that, when the corporation-run government has the same loyalties as it ever did, seems Neptunian in the extreme.

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Go YOU

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted January 12, 2013 09:15 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
so you think you will have more success with your assault weapons against the most powerful army in the world than the tibetan army did, as little or illequipped as it was, against the chinese invaders? seriously? that is your main argument? do you take drugs faith cause that is DELUSIONAL

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I don't know all the intricacies of how an armed citizenry works as a deterrent against a burgeoning police state...I just know that:

1) Hitler, Stalin, and other tyrants banned guns prior to taking over the country

2) Which enabled them to increase the number of ways they could prey upon the people.

If the US were to begin an all-out war on its people, it wouldn't have to ban assault weapons in order to be successful.

US common folk versus best-equipped military to ever exist on this earth? No contest.

However, with the people being armed, that does deter them, hold them back, force them to strategize differently. They cannot expect, for instance, to just barge into a home, take political dissenters captive, and get out alive if they know said dissenters own assault weapons.

I'm guessing the police and military would start quitting their jobs if they got that assignment...too risky.

Whereas, in Hitler's Germany, the SS could do that very simply because no one had any defense.

posted January 12, 2013 09:27 AM            

In this country, people still do have that RIGHT...they can fight back against the thugs who might come to steal them or their children away in the middle of the night.

People can die, resting a little easier in their conscience, that they did not allow their children to be slaughtered by a band of soulless mercenaries without killing a few of them in defense.

posted January 12, 2013 09:33 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
but screaming to the wolf is definitely not a solution. it erodes trust of those who still have some left (which is not my case, but to each their one) and it replace it with nothing of value, only fear. so may be you should get elected and PROPOSE something else, a new direction

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Crying wolf you mean? I am just stating facts. It's not my fault the US engages in torture, and torture is scary.

Getting elected isn't an option for me, I'm too busy with my children. But I have been politically active, donating money and time to candidates I like.

If you are suggesting that until I get elected, I have no voice or way of effecting change for the better, I beg to differ.

posted January 12, 2013 09:43 AM            

quote:

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Crying wolf you mean?

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yes

quote:

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If you are suggesting that until I get elected, I have no voice or way of effecting change for the better, I beg to differ.

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posted January 12, 2013 09:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
I see a similarity. there is one option proposed by those in power: a global integration. in Europe it is more tangible with the EU. but it is the same principle. it doesn't have to bring havoc.

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We are headed towards globalization, definitely. It will bring havoc, that is unavoidable. The whole idea of globalization, of submitting to a One World Government, is anathema to many people, especially Americans.

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
it can be good. change can be peaceful, that is was what shown in arab revlutions.

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quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
let them get the wrld united, then peacefully, the population will take control of this globalised world.

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But how would the military-industrial-surveillance complex make its profit?

There can be no peace when the powers that be are soundly in control and intent on profiting from war.

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
if the world get united and the population peacefully takes control, at least let's try to ensure that in that "population" it is acted and understood what is the real motive

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I believe the populations are thoroughly duped because the mainstream media is run by the same corporations who profit from war, and because some truly relevant information is only available through books, while some key information is kept secret, and other information is stigmatized so successfully that people won't touch it with a ten-foot pole.

So we don't understand real motives in detail...but I do know this much is true: money is king, and the oligarchs are in control.

There can be no freedom for a society that hasn't the means with which to detect lies.

posted January 12, 2013 09:49 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
I don't exactly imply that. consider hermits, do you think they do not affect the fabric of the universe? the lives of everyone? buddha was a king with an army, once he had found enlightenment, if it had been more effective to act in the world, do you think he would not have done it?

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You're the one who told me to get elected.

posted January 12, 2013 02:24 PM            

it is brains, not guns, that will stymie the machine. if you think going down shooting will save your kids, well, good luck to you.

but i find it amazing that those who profess the strongest faith are the ones most afraid of dying. i don't think death is what they have in mind for us little folk in any case. why waste the time and energy when you are already psychoanalyzed, fed garbage and probably likely to suffer radioactive poisoning in the near future?

posted January 12, 2013 03:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
if you think going down shooting will save your kids, well, good luck to you.

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I never said that. Why do you focus on the stuff you whipped up out of your imagination instead of staying on topic?

I'd like to push back against your lectures but you split off in all different directions when confronted.

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:

perhaps shooting one's way out would be quicker and therefore preferable...or perhaps giving up before the game is up has NOTHING to do with dignity. because the ok corral is a slaughter pen.

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posted January 12, 2013 03:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
ami's certainty that it's all over is akin to her revelling in my being "stymied" before i have even answered. in short, i don't see it that way.

but if the rapture is really coming, what on earth is everyone to worry about???

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Any chance you could focus on something other than Ami's faith here?

Why not just talk about that on her Bible prophecy thread?

posted January 12, 2013 10:57 PM            

sorry faith, but as i said at the beginning of my response above, i wrote most of my reply in the other thread. the bible thread that is not a bible thread.

i have never said all is well. i have said that placing all the onus one one person/party is ridiculous. but seeing as i have no two-line answers for a problem which is as complex as history...rule me out, okay?

as i have said more than once, the issue is not taking your GUNS, but getting your INFORMATION. there is no need to spend all that energy and money slaughtering us all.

as to ami's faith, she is one of a growing bunch of "christians" expecting the rapture and even counting the days...the worse things get the more convinced they are it is any day. they are not interested in improving anything here. this world is not good enough for them and that is PART OF THE PROBLEM. and they are being jinned up by the likes of limbaugh, and everyone else who translates the current talk about doing SOMETHING into "taking away our guns".

posted January 14, 2013 07:56 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
excuse me but i assumed you were talking about your own attitude.

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I described the attitude of many people, and you assumed that was my attitude and intention.

You should be much more careful when you accuse someone of intending to do anything violent, over the internet. Really, please watch your mouth.

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:

i have never said all is well. i have said that placing all the onus one one person/party is ridiculous.

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Placing ALL the onus is ridiculous; here we are placing SOME of the onus on one party.

You see?

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
as i have said more than once, the issue is not taking your GUNS, but getting your INFORMATION.

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Who said I have guns? I don't have any guns, nor a carry permit. Again, you should watch what you say.

I'm really concerned that you have no sense of discretion about this. You should NEVER make up stuff about other people having guns.

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
there is no need to spend all that energy and money slaughtering us all.

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I don't understand you. I never have. There was no *need* to invade Iraq and slaughter so many people there, either. But they did it, didn't they?

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
as to ami's faith

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posted January 14, 2013 08:05 AM            

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