posted January 14, 2013 05:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
This thread has been thought provoking and a good source of information and I would like to see it stay open and be productive.

Let us step back a moment and regroup. Often, too many emotions are triggered by politics and we say things best left unsaid.

Can we set the example of positive interaction and continue sharing ?

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posted January 14, 2013 05:09 PM            

GU is a little more tolerant of the sniping and sarcasm but sometimes a little turns into a whole lot. Just trying to turn the page and get back to the threads intent.

posted January 14, 2013 05:45 PM            

If you two think you are too good for this forum, I bid you adieu.

Now what's so impolite about that?

posted January 14, 2013 05:55 PM            

It means worst and/or worse in french, so I may not be able to do any better than that.

Sorry, I don't have a superior feeling, not in my ways of being.

I say what I think, even if it make me look one thing or another. may be my aquarius sun conjunct's obama's rising do that? and biden, what sign is he?

posted January 15, 2013 01:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
I say what I think, even if it make me look one thing or another. may be my aquarius sun conjunct's obama's rising do that? and biden, what sign is he?

back on topic "rant over on my side"

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pire, I thoroughly appreciate and respect everything you have to say. Do whatever you think will give you peace of mind. A bit of advice, staying far away from LL gives me a complete sense of peace and joy, not having to deal with the nonsensical trivialities, abuse of power (talk about irony in regards to this exact thread topic) and dramatics. It's why I haven't posted on here for nearly 2 months (and will continue not too). Outside of this post, of course.

Anywho, I wanted to post in response to your comments on this thread. To let you know I understand and respect your input and thank you for it. I think you express yourself impeccably. Even if others can't be bothered to look deeper into the context of your words to understand where you're coming from. I personally believe you are one of the few around these parts that is far ahead of your time.

Sidenote: I also have Aquarius Rising like Obama (possibly conjunct your Sun), maybe that's why I feel like you and I speak the same language. All the best pire and do what's best for you.

posted January 15, 2013 08:55 AM            

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Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
abuse of power (talk about irony in regards to this exact thread topic) and dramatics.

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If you would condescend to return to our lowly forum some day, maybe you will be so kind as to explain that more clearly. Presently, I feel unnerved, as if you are saying I am abusing power, because I posted this topic.

quote:

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Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
I think you express yourself impeccably. Even if others can't be bothered to look deeper into the context of your words to understand where you're coming from.

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Well, isn't this a peach? Earlier I went to great lengths to explain my position to pire, after he or she made some assumptions about me and fired accusations based on said assumptions. Despite the confrontational stance that pire assumed, I on the other hand was was polite, and pire expressed agreement with some of my points.

When I delved deeply into pire's "context," I found and exposed faulty assumptions, which I clarified for his or her benefit.

quote:

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Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
I personally believe you are one of the few around these parts that is far ahead of your time.

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posted January 15, 2013 09:41 AM            

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Earlier I went to great lengths to explain my position to pire, after he or she made some assumptions about me and fired accusations based on said assumptions.

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do you care to point me to that bit? please?

posted January 15, 2013 09:42 AM            

quote:

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When I delved deeply into pire's "context," I found and exposed faulty assumptions, which I clarified for his or her benefit.

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posted January 15, 2013 09:47 AM            

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Apparently all one needs to be "ahead of one's time" is membership in the Obama fan club.

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wisdom and language have this in common, it requires owning the skills to understand it. it happens to everyone, eventually

posted January 15, 2013 09:49 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
what are you refering to here? can you be specific?

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^ You called me DELUSIONAL (in capital letters) because you assumed that I believed that the common folk of the US could take on its military and succeed.

Then, after I explained myself, you saw more clearly where I was coming from, and you expressed agreement with some of my points.

posted January 15, 2013 09:52 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
wisdom and language have this in common, it requires owning the skills to understand it. it happens to everyone, eventually

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posted January 15, 2013 09:56 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
what are you refering to here? can you be specific?

^ You called me DELUSIONAL (in capital letters) because you assumed that I believed that the common folk of the US could take on its military and succeed.

Then, after I explained myself, you saw more clearly where I was coming from, and you expressed agreement with some of my points.

Please don't challenge this account, because it would be time-consuming for me to reconstruct it with direct quotes, and if your memory is sound, there should be no need for it anyway.

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posted January 15, 2013 10:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I disagree completely that it happens to everyone eventually. Plenty of people live and die foolish.

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oh, but you talk about this current lifetime? I see on a larger scale. it is all just one day.

the rich of today are the poors of yesterday or tomorrow, the oppressors of today are the victims of another lifetime. the clever of today are the mental ill of tomorrow. we are all in this together. and everyone will experience every aspects of it.

posted January 15, 2013 10:11 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
you didn't answer my first question, you chose to answer the secod.

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You asked me to point you to something. I chose not to.

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
I called you delusional because you drew a parallel between tibet's invasion by the chinese due to being unarmed, and the necessities for the US civilians to bear arm to defend their freedom in front the biggest army on earth, ever.

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There is nothing delusional about that.

kat seemed to be saying...and I say "seemed to be saying" because she never quite makes sense to me...that people INVITE tyranny by being afraid of it.

The analogy I drew highlighted the fact that the Dalai Lama's fear of the Chinese at the initial stages of the invasion were not the CAUSE of further atrocities.

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
indeed, I did, and still do, say that using that argument in order to defend the right to bear arms is delusional, and I will add today, if not delusional, then preposterous! don't you agree with me?

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I wasn't using that argument to defend the right to bear arms. Perhaps you have a shoddy memory and unwillingness to re-read a conversation you've forgotten. Or, you ignore what I say, put words in my mouth, and judge me according to your misconceptions.

At any rate, you're not satisfying to speak with.

posted January 15, 2013 10:22 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I wasn't using that argument to defend the right to bear arms. Perhaps you have a shoddy memory and unwillingness to re-read a conversation you've forgotten. Or, you ignore what I say, put words in my mouth, and judge me according to your misconceptions.

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nevermind you trying to portait me as lier and manipulator, but for the record, that is what you wrote on page 2:

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The US has already basically overwritten the Bill of Rights. If they want to put you in jail indefinitely without trial, they legally can. That is something to be fearful about.

Without the right to bear arms, the situation for us becomes even more precarious. Just as it was for the peaceful Tibetans who, out of choice, remained militarily unprepared for takeover by a sinister government. Once it became evident that the takeover was imminent, Tibet did make the best of its tiny army, and some peasants fought back, but the situation quickly turned horrific.

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posted January 15, 2013 10:29 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:

At any rate, you're not satisfying to speak with.

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nevermind, and strangely to my nature, I don't feel the need to hold a grudge against you.

I probably could never see eye to eye with you on politics (remember, *ironic* I would die to have the right to be walked over by the great leader of your country) but I don't have an issue with you despite my threat of "remembering" yesterday (bottom of page 3)

posted January 15, 2013 11:53 AM            

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If you would condescend to return to our lowly forum some day, maybe you will be so kind as to explain that more clearly. Presently, I feel unnerved, as if you are saying I am abusing power, because I posted this topic.

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Faith, I actually was not making a reference to you when I made that statement. I was speaking in regards to authority figures here at LL (and forums in general). As in not only can national leaders abuse power but even moderators and webmasters!

quote:

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Apparently all one needs to be "ahead of one's time" is membership in the Obama fan club.

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posted January 15, 2013 01:25 PM            

Havng said that, the fact that a movement toward globalisation exist doesn't necessarily imply the creation of a totalitarian state in the US.
It is true that the US army being bigger with no comparison, to that of every other countries in the world, together, it would be a danger for the entire world, but if anything, it shows the need to slow down investments on the military industries from the US who are the biggest spenders by far.

I am not specialist of the US so there is some aspects that I do not perceive, but to rely on fear is the wrong thing to do.
Politicians have just as much power as the people, the corporations and the banks give them. A determined population has the last word no matter what, look at the history of my country after all. Although I understand the fears here and over there, cause there are many who would elect the nationalist biatch Marine Lepen in france, if given the chance, may be next round, look out. She uses fear too. I hear it, but giving in to this fear is actually loosing at the chess game played between the populations and those who want its control. Indeed, we are meant to believe we re those in trouble, who must fear for our life, or lifestyle, but wait, just a second, did you realise that our lifestyle IN HISTORY, has never been so comfortable? Obviously I don't mention the persons we have left, within our society, fall behind. Let's face it, it won't get better any time soon for the vast majority of us. For exemple, in france, we will have to accept an average wage of 2082 euros this year (2766 dollars). A cause for riots, right? *ironic* I don't ask for a status quo, things can and should be improved regardless, cause not everyone working has this wage.

However the real divide is between the western world who has access to everything, and the rest of the world, that outnumber us by far, and that live in poverty, despite working obviously, cause in those parts of the world, government support is simply a dream.
We are 7 billions, if you roughly estimates all the western world as living in fairly good conditions, and we know it isn't the case, if you had, what?, let say may be 50% of the chinese (hopefully), plus here and there the elite that lives with our standard of living despite being in a poor country... it is a wild guess but around 2 billions people must live with water and electricity? I don't have the numbers but you get my drift... what about the others? and now, if not all, the most curious must have heard and seen the differences in lifestyles through tv's and internet...

posted January 15, 2013 02:57 PM            

As I said,

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:

I don't know all the intricacies of how an armed citizenry works as a deterrent against a burgeoning police state...I just know that:

1) Hitler, Stalin, and other tyrants banned guns prior to taking over the country

2) Which enabled them to increase the number of ways they could prey upon the people.

If the US were to begin an all-out war on its people, it wouldn't have to ban assault weapons in order to be successful.

US common folk versus best-equipped military to ever exist on this earth? No contest.

However, with the people being armed, that does deter them, hold them back, force them to strategize differently. They cannot expect, for instance, to just barge into a home, take political dissenters captive, and get out alive if they know said dissenters own assault weapons.

I'm guessing the police and military would start quitting their jobs if they got that assignment...too risky.

Whereas, in Hitler's Germany, the SS could do that very simply because no one had any defense.

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That is just an outline of what I think the dynamic is, with an admission that I am not even pretending to know all the intricacies.

History has shown that a disarmed population is at greater risk for takeover by a murderous regime. It's not preposterous or delusional to note the fact. And it's only common sense that this would be the case.

I don't even know what your argument is; are you for total disarmament, with total trust in the government to never abuse their power?

Do you discern between governments, with only some being, in your opinion, trustworthy enough to have complete military dominion over their people, or are you for global disarmament of all non-government workers, regardless of the malice and corruption in their respective governments?

posted January 15, 2013 03:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
It's nutty, I know, I know, when an individual decides to express sincere admiration toward another human being. Ah well, c'est la vie!

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I just fail to see how he's earned the accolades you are heaping on him.

posted January 15, 2013 03:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
nevermind, and strangely to my nature, I don't feel the need to hold a grudge against you.

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