Posts: 1583
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posted January 27, 2013 07:08 PM            

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Limited mags to 7 rounds or less or limiting cars to traveling 30 MPH (about 50 km/h)?

It just occurred to me. Offhand I'm guessing the latter would unquestionably save countless lives while the former will have marginal effects (*).

But if laws were proposed to limit cars to the new life saving speed limit I bet car owners would howl in more unison and passion than gun owners now.

(* Not only are mass shootings exceedingly rare, and in most cases most shots miss their targets and alert everyone to run if they can, but it takes mere moments, like 2 seconds, to change mags for one prepared to do so, so in normal circumstances no one is going to be able to charge them while they change mags. Of course I am aware of how many people think a gun will never do anyone any good, will be taken away, etc, unless one decides to do evil with it in which case it would take SWAT or the National Guard to stop them. I'm not making a strawman, I'm making an observation of how I see people's minds work, and I was stunned when I literally saw comments in a news article saying a person who drew a concealed weapon on a mass murderer would have his gun taken away from him, but of course no one could take the mass murderer's gun away the same way, and the very fact that a mass murderer would put down his own gun to take away the law abiding gun owner's gun away is just too silly for words. Seriously, THINK before you "think.")

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posted January 27, 2013 10:03 PM            

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This isn't really an answer to your question. but in my opinion most mass shootings happen in rural areas..

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posted January 27, 2013 10:04 PM            

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I just realized i posted in GU, i never come here

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posted January 28, 2013 01:06 PM            

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PJ, if you're talking about the city, the speed limit is already 30mph. as is the default limit in most towns and anywhere else in the state not POSTED otherwise, apart from the expressways ...

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posted January 28, 2013 01:41 PM            

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Nah, I'm talking about the vehicles themselves. After all, laws are optional, and deep down plenty of drivers think the laws don't apply to themselves specifically, that it's only because of OTHER people that they're needed, and many drivers frequently ignore them (it would be pressing credulity for me to hear that NY drivers are that different from Texas & California drivers).

That said, I didn't know that about the speed limit.

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posted January 28, 2013 02:22 PM            

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no one is talking about limiting guns to certain capacities. if cars could only go 30mph that would destroy the auto industry and the oil industry in one fell swoop.

however i think a lot of people are interpreting a "ban" to mean "confiscation" when it will NOT affect existing guns, but future sales of those guns...

and the argument that you can defend yourself against the government with any number of highpower handguns is still lame.

as to defending yourself against other gunmen, how is it that during the last spate of gunshow sales several people were shot, and no one stopped them with all those guns around?

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posted January 28, 2013 02:25 PM            

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people keep talking about swiss gun ownership...which is about 1 in 3 members of the population...this is such a poor correlation to here. why?

because in switzerland military service is MANDATORY for 18+ males...and that is HALF the population. therefore ALL gun owners are either ex military (well trained) or have gone through RIGOROUS background checks. despite the "high" ownership stats, it is VERY HARD to get a gun in switzerland especially if you have NOT been in the military.

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posted January 28, 2013 02:47 PM            

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Kat,

The only guy who talked about confiscation is Andrew Cuomo, but he alone brought up that option.

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posted January 28, 2013 02:52 PM            

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exactly, ian. because confiscation would be impossible, some kneejerks would feel obliged to shoot it out and pandemonium would be the result. new york's finest are hardly likely to risk confiscating the guns that are already there either...even though the end result would not be victory for the toughnut rebels, it would be costly to all sides, and fatal in many cases.

even the hole in the wall gang couldn't hold out long enough to beat the establishment! and that was ancient history in us terms.

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posted January 28, 2013 02:56 PM            

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And in fair defense of Cuomo, he was only referring to confiscation from the mentally ill.

It isn't as though the Luccheses, Bonannos, Genoveses, Colombos and Gambinos are going to show up full force to return weapons.

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posted January 28, 2013 06:16 PM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
no one is talking about limiting guns to certain capacities

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http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/new_york&id=8958116

(Don't get confused, I used that as it refers to the NY law I'm referring to.)

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
as to defending yourself against other gunmen, how is it that during the last spate of gunshow sales several people were shot, and no one stopped them with all those guns around?

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Accidental shootings. That is there was no bad guy to stop.

And the point of carrying concealed isn't primarily about defending against a would-be mass murderer, though it can help with that as well. Examples include the Appalachian School of Law shooting (contrast with the death toll of Virginia Tech), and CO Springs Church, and also a robber dumb enough to rob a gun store (note that the claim that they'd shoot each other in the crossfire didn't happen). There are others but the problem here is that since such mass shootings resulted in few to zero fatalities due to a good guy being armed it doesn't bleed enough to make headlines and so they're hard to find. Of course most would-be mass murderers choose gun free zones or otherwise areas where they expect no one capable of resisting them so it's very rare that there would be someone else present. That said, it's too bad the good guys don't also ignore the laws, as Suzanna Hupp regrets following the law that enabled many innocents to be killed while she and others had guns out of reach in the parking lot (the mass murderer also waited a couple of hours for cops to leave before starting his rampage, so he chose it knowing the law abiding would be unarmed).

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posted January 28, 2013 06:21 PM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
people keep talking about swiss gun ownership...which is about 1 in 3 members of the population...this is such a poor correlation to here. why?

because in switzerland military service is MANDATORY for 18+ males...and that is HALF the population. therefore ALL gun owners are either ex military (well trained) or have gone through RIGOROUS background checks. despite the "high" ownership stats, it is VERY HARD to get a gun in switzerland especially if you have NOT been in the military.

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So are many gun owners in the USA. A lot of people into guns also support mandatory military service for males as well. And the point overlooked is that violence isn't caused by guns being present, and their malls and schools aren't being shot up like ours (and given all that training I'd think they'd be even deadlier than our shootings), instead mass shootings are as rare there as they are in Germany & Canada. Heck, ALL gun crime is rare there (and I understand the majority of gun crime that happens is done by immigrants who aren't allowed to legally have guns).

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posted January 28, 2013 06:23 PM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
if cars could only go 30mph that would destroy the auto industry and the oil industry in one fell swoop.

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How so? People would still use cars and need gas for those cars.

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