posted February 05, 2013 07:19 AM            

The report, by Michael Isikoff of NBC News, reveals that the Obama administration believes that high-level administration officials -- not just the president -- may order the killing of “senior operational leaders” of al-Qaida or an associated force even without evidence they are actively plotting against the U.S.

“A lawful killing in self-defense is not an assassination,” states the Justice Department white paper quoted by Isikoff.

The 16-page memo, given to Congress in June, is not the final Office of Legal Counsel memo that news organizations have sued to obtain. But it offers plenty of insight into the government’s justification for killing American citizens in overseas drone strikes.

The paper states that the U.S. would be able to kill a U.S. citizen overseas when "an informed, high-level official of the U.S. government" determines the target is an imminent threat, when capture would be infeasible and when the operation is "conducted consistent with applicable law of war principles."

The white paper suggests that such decisions would not be subject to judicial review and outlines a broad definition of what constitutes “imminent” threat.

Constitutional experts said the memo's definition doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. Administration critics immediately said the white paper is fresh evidence the president has abandoned his 2008 campaign pledge to recognize and respect the limits of executive power.

Jameel Jaffer of the American Civil Liberties Union called the document "pretty remarkable" and said some of its arguments "don't stand up to even cursory review." He said the paper “only underscores the irresponsible extravagance of the government's central claim.”

Hina Shamsi, director of the ACLU’s National Security Project, called the document “profoundly disturbing” and said it was “hard to believe that it was produced in a democracy built on a system of checks and balances.”

“It summarizes in cold legal terms a stunning overreach of executive authority –- the claimed power to declare Americans a threat and kill them far from a recognized battlefield and without any judicial involvement before or after the fact,” Shamsi said in a statement.

Watchdog groups and members of Congress have made repeated pleas for the administration to release internal documents outlining the rationale for the targeted killing program, especially when the target is an American citizen. NBC's report increases pressure on the administration to release additional documents.

The White House did not immediately return a request for comment.

Earlier on Monday, 11 senators signed a letter formally requesting that the administration provide its legal justification for drone strikes to Congress. Marcy Wheeler, a blogger who has closely tracked the requests, said it was at least the 12th time Congress had asked for such documents.

The Justice Department white paper's publication comes at an unfortunate time for the White House, shepherding several top cabinet nominees through confirmation in the Senate. The leak may pose hurdles for the confirmation of John Brennan, the nominee for CIA director.

Brennan, now a top White House adviser, is the architect of Obama’s drone policy. He has been a strong proponent of the expanded practice of targeted assassinations to kill suspected terrorists wherever they may be. It was under his watch that the Awlaki assassination was approved.

In the final months of Obama’s first term, Brennan joined other members of the national security team to codify procedures for determining the appropriate use of targeted killings into a so-called “playbook,” but much of the process remains opaque.

posted February 05, 2013 08:35 AM            

Anyone see the latest Time magazine cover, on the rise of drones? Scary.

This article talks about overseas drone strikes on Americans...of course that's already happened. I figure it's only a matter of time before they incrementally switch out surveillance drones in our skies with some predator drones.

(Remember, they want 30,000 drones over America by 2020.)

As predator drones fill the sky overhead, we will enter a new kind of life, I believe, where everyone increasingly lives in constant fear. Just like Pakistan.
http://livingunderdrones.org/

As I've said...what we wish upon others, we will bring on ourselves. Few protested the building up of the War Machine, few saw that it could be turned on them.

posted February 05, 2013 08:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I knew we were headed for this.

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OF COURSE. This is just the beginning. When , you know we will be in detention camps

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted February 05, 2013 02:32 PM            

the UN, that bugbear of conservatives, is investigating this behaviour by our govt...and the ACLU, another supposedly dastardly "socialist" organization, is working against it too

oh and it isn't just us either.

posted February 06, 2013 12:41 AM            

Sorry bout typos i am on my phone and correcting is difficult!

posted February 06, 2013 07:37 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
If i seem to defend obama that is because the main tone around here is that it is all his fault, which i find preposterous.

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"Seem to defend"? I feel like you are incapable of seeing how Obama does wrong.

Not asking you to hate his guts or morph into jwhop, but it's exasperating that you constantly shift the blame from him over to someone else. So when we have concerns about what this President is doing with all the power he's arrogating to himself, you might say something to the effect of, "No, Stupids, things aren't that bad, and if they are, it's because of the Republican Congress."

To me, that's unreasonable. You downplay the severity of our situation, giving the impression that you believe "Obama wouldn't let that happen."

posted February 06, 2013 08:21 AM            

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted February 06, 2013 09:10 AM            

I know Obama isn`t the right choice for this country (imho). In other words, he is a good husband and father but isn`t my ideal of a captialist president .

Yet, I`m of the notion there are grander motives and worldly agendas at play here and Obama is Ami Annes frog. He is a figurehead to lay the blame or kudos on while the puppet masters work behind the scenes creating laws, stealing freedoms and screwing the world royaly.

Yes indeed , under Obama, drones, freedoms finances et al have eroded but look behind the curtain my friends. Being side tracked by the admin and their shenanigans, Syria, Egypt + countries ad nausium are disrupting and tipping the balance for peace and freedom everywhere.... Right under Obamas nose and he is the helpless frog while we are ribiting away and Obama gets the speech writers blame or kudos..

Track the $$ that put Obama in the hot seat in the first place

posted February 06, 2013 10:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
He is a figurehead to lay the blame or kudos on while the puppet masters work behind the scenes creating laws, stealing freedoms and screwing the world royaly.

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Yes, and because the media doesn't lay this information out for people, it often gets ignored. Even though, as I see it, this is the most important aspect of governance to watch.

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
Yes indeed , under Obama, drones, freedoms finances et al have eroded but look behind the curtain my friends.

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I look at both.

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
Being side tracked by the admin and their shenanigans, Syria, Egypt + countries ad nausium are disrupting and tipping the balance for peace and freedom everywhere....

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posted February 06, 2013 10:29 AM            

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted February 06, 2013 11:43 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I marvel at your optimism, particularly with respect to Syria.

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Without optimism, we are dead. I am clued into the world and it`s uglies but must hold hope/Faith it can and will be turned around for our children and Grandchildrens generation.

Hebrews 11:1: ( King James Bible)
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

quote:

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I look at both.

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posted February 06, 2013 01:16 PM            

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted February 06, 2013 01:32 PM            

quote:

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but the people who hate people like the Muslim terrorists will never be touched by anyone's heart, no matter how good

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Ami Anne, I cringe when you use the term Muslim to denote all types of terrorists. It appears to be a hatred for a specific religions` terrorists. I know you said "like" them but they are not nor ever will be the worst.I think your heart and mind are bigger than that

posted February 06, 2013 03:08 PM            

https://www.facebook.com/ChciZnatPravdu/

and the muslims are just the latest flavour of choice for the baddest guys in all the world.

i'd be willing to bet a great deal on the muslims of the middle ages feeling the same way about the christian crusaders.

posted February 06, 2013 04:43 PM            

It's one thing I've observed is generally speaking your party matters more than your actions. And it's been that way a long time going by how long MAD Magazine has been making fun of the double standards.

posted February 06, 2013 05:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
"Seem to defend"? I feel like you are incapable of seeing how Obama does wrong.

Not asking you to hate his guts or morph into jwhop, but it's exasperating that you constantly shift the blame from him over to someone else. So when we have concerns about what this President is doing with all the power he's arrogating to himself, you might say something to the effect of, "No, Stupids, things aren't that bad, and if they are, it's because of the Republican Congress."

To me, that's unreasonable. You downplay the severity of our situation, giving the impression that you believe "Obama wouldn't let that happen."

The Savior is protecting us?

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This reminded me of a liberal making fun of Obama:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS_H-HhWJdg

Obama: "Hey everyone, remember my campaign slogan ("Change")? I can't do that."

posted February 06, 2013 07:28 PM            

Actually, it's more how people who supported him did so because Obama promised to change what Bush got going on with the USA PATRIOT Act, wars, detention camps, etc, but as soon as Obama won the war protests petered out to almost non-existent, detention camps and police state abuses no longer mattered, and bringing any of this up, or the use of drones, killing people without trial (which is far worse than waterboarding them without trial) and Obama supporters get all upset and excuse him. I know very well that they ONLY do it because he's a Democrat. If he were a Republican then many who defend Obama would be shrieking about the abuses of power as well. And that being able to see no wrong on the part of Obama, and thinking that he, unlike virtually all other politicians, means really well is what gets people frustrated.

'Course many Republicans are just as bad and hypocritical (whether it's excusing their own guy and/or treating Obama as more like Satan instead of Jesus no matter what), but that doesn't excuse Obama worshipers, it just means many Obama excusers get to see their own reflection in the people they oppose, or put another way the pot gets to see the kettle is black without realizing its own color. And unfortunately while these double standards dominate the masses then actual change will never come.

Of course not everyone has a double standard. Some Democrats & Republicans really do judge politicians by their actions rather than party affiliation, but they definitely seem to be the exception to me.

More:
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/08/repulsive_progressive_hypocrisy/

posted February 06, 2013 07:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by katatonic:
we have been at war for 209 years. some justifiable, most not,

https://www.facebook.com/ChciZnatPravdu/

and the muslims are just the latest flavour of choice for the baddest guys in all the world.

i'd be willing to bet a great deal on the muslims of the middle ages feeling the same way about the christian crusaders.

but hey, who needs perspective? just keep letting them talk you into jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

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They are the WORST. There could be an isolated Christian who goes nuts or an isolated person, but they are terrorizing everyone to the point that regular people are afraid to speak up. They want to come after all free people, once they try to destroy Israel, which they won't. They want Sharia law EVERYWHERE. That means you! If you think otherwise, you are deluded. The Moderate Muslims are hated as much as the Jews, maybe more. There is no way these people are going to be stopped if people are "nice" to them. Wake up

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted February 06, 2013 07:43 PM            

If the drone attacks were actually surgical and well thought out (with oversight and judicial review followed up by transparency within a reasonable amount of time after the strikes) I wouldn't be opposed to them. Unfortunately, the drones strike indiscriminately at children, relief workers, and the like, and what's even worse is that sometimes they strike in the MERE HOPE that a terrorist will happen to be among the crowd. That's just evil, and it's also counterproductive to our national security as it drives many moderates to side with the extremists. I know if I lived under the daily threat of drones I'd come to hate the United States with murderous passion myself, and if my children were killed for being in the wrong place at the wrong time I just might take radical action as well (for revenge, not because I accepted the religion). Or illustrated:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwaNialmYLc

posted February 06, 2013 07:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
nobody here said Obama, as a politician, has no shortcomings.

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It's the fact that, in spite of BLATANT and OBVIOUS signs that the man is complicit in enacting a very sinister agenda, his defenders refuse to see the facts for what they are.

Even his Executive Orders are explained away with crazy excuses like, "He only did it under pressure from Congress," which have no basis in reality...and Obama's defenders are very, very lazy about obtaining proof to back these excuses. They prefer to work by assumption, and they expect their assumptions to be sufficient in debates.

It's this total departure from reality that brings on religious analogies.

Most people who support Obama do it by faith.