posted November 18, 2013 09:29 PM            

You would think that being married to a natural born US citizen and having three natural born US citizen children would immediately entitle me to naturalization, as the common misconception goes. Solely on the basis of marriage and fatherhood, it took me 20 years.

Meanwhile, I've calculated that I've paid over $300K in US college tuition, over $2 million in federal income taxes, and a sizable portion in state and local taxes, a quarter million in real estate and property taxes, over half million raising each son. Never mind that I have added a minimum of forty million to the GDP of the USA just through my work financing government institutions, hospitals, schools and public infrastructure projects.

I speak better English than most US bureaucrats and know more US History than most immigration officials. After busting my hump studying constitutional history over the past year, I may even manage to pass a constitutional law class.

If I spoke no English, paid no taxes, fathered ten illegitimate undocumented children, I bet I would have gotten my citizenship in a quarter of the time.

Even the judge looked at me in horror and if I could read his silent ghetto lip sync, it would be something like: "damn brother, Uncle Sam f-ing screwed up."

posted November 18, 2013 10:40 PM            

quote:

---

While most U.S. residents cannot put a price tag on the value of citizenship, Svetlana Anikeeva and her husband can -- $500,000.

That’s because the Russian immigrants came to the U.S. through the EB-5 visa program, a federal initiative that allows foreigners to earn a green card granting them permanent residency – and a path to citizenship – in return for investing at least $500,000 in an American business and creating at least 10 jobs.

---

posted November 18, 2013 11:56 PM            

I'm not happy that it had been such an arduous task getting citizenship that I'm supposedly entitled to by virtue of marriage to a citizen.

I'm not undermining anyone's struggles and experience, but I myself have been routinely subject to INS risk all these years.

Am I happy? Yes. I can now be with my loved ones without the risk of imprisonment and deportation.

And the comments about the federal judge was a joke, but he did share with me his opinion that 20 years is indeed a travesty.

Pixie Jane,,

posted November 18, 2013 11:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:

Even the judge looked at me in horror and if I could read his silent ghetto lip sync, it would be something like: "damn brother, Uncle Sam f-ing screwed up."

---

silent ghetto lip sync?

Better the non English speaking illegal immigrant and father of illegitimate children (horrors!) than racist scum. You disgrace my country.

posted November 19, 2013 07:34 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by shura:

Better the non English speaking illegal immigrant and father of illegitimate children (horrors!) than racist scum. You disgrace my country.

---

posted November 19, 2013 10:13 AM            

I will say it from the European perspective at first.

Malta this week decided to sell its citizenship for just under a million US dollars. At first a person may frown. But second remember they do thorough background checks, and they need the money, so isn't this better than selling off the country and people to a company like Monsanto or worst?

Secondly in Europe, Italy, Greece and even Malta have had to bear the brunt of illegal immigration more than anyone else recently.
It used to be that when those landed in Italy (remember Pope is there, always be good and take care of your brothers and sisters from other places balbalblalba and he does influence all what goes on there through his stances) so simply such no one would help.... Italy would give the illegal immigrants the permit and they are free to go where-ever they want in the EU with it.

Naturally the more stable northern European economies were the target of these guys who entered in the less than scrupulous way, so they'd make their way to Germany, Holland some even anywhere Scandinavia, and play the 'refugee' card were if it works they'd get citizenship in short time, and refugee so residence even earlier.

Then the EU changed some laws, so wherever the illegal lands they've got to stay. Most ended up in Malta such a lot come from the ME and Africa, and it's closer to them.

At first Malta asked if some EU countries would take in some of the refugees (they are an island of 400,000 and they got 17,000 illegals)....to which the EU said no, as that goes against the EU laws.

Then Malta asked for financial help from the EU, as they can't handle all that on their own...and basically they received many words that were simply a no.

So what else were they supposed to do? Auction off the island? of course not! sell citizenship instead. Some Caribbean islands had been doing it for years, and honestly it never changed the demographics of these islands, as most citizenship buyers are just business men from strange countries. and the pro's outweighed the cons.

They also learnt from the Dominican republic, and really do scan people before accepting or denying their applications.

So my point with all this, is i don't see what you lot have against people with large sums of money making their life easy....

Does money, create jobs? yes usually.

Does it help bring new business? yes...

is it a strain on tax paying citizens so that some of the money that should be used to build hospitals, improve roads etc is taken to train sea patrols, and divers to try and rescue people who risk sinking in the sea out of desperation for a better place? absolutely not

And is it fair, that someone who plays by the rules has to wait so long, when someone (true out of desperation but still) does it all illegally, and gets way ahead of that who follows them? this makes no sense. In other words i see what really got on YTA's nerves with all this...and i don't think his anger is out of racism, but at how the tables are turned on you if you go the straight and not the crooked path...

posted November 19, 2013 12:10 PM            

and the rest whether like YTA or like the illegals, get to go through hell and back just for the coveted little red book or blue in YTA's case??

if anything this seems like an 'upper middle class' option, not all people who have money are corrupt, and the really corrupt have already gotten themselves American European and god knows how many other citizenships a long time ago, lets not pretend that this isn't the case.

if someone just like you or me is willing to give your country so much money, for something you were born with for free, just to get that book, and pay taxes and who cares travel on it...where is the problem with it. Spies from other countries already use the passports from your and my country to go and tarnish the reputation or do stupid things in another citizenship name....at least this way it is known to the govt who the ppl buying and use their passports are.

Just because a solution for one is found doesn't mean that it was at the 'expense' of the other(illegal immigrants).

posted November 19, 2013 01:24 PM            

also i don't think you even meant it that way or realized it but that second part sounded a bit self-righteous....what do people born in a country know about it half the time anyway? sometimes almost nothing from what i've seen...

so what for a huge amount of money, a person gets to stay over, pay taxes, live our way, go through the same bizarre bureaucratic orders as any citizen however ....it'll take us 5 years to tell if they are really worthy of our magic citizenship or not?!No one asked me when they made all these laws i just came to this world and found them...but i think i have the right to question if they are the right thing....and again, a good gov't would only allow top quality people from elsewhere to enter in the first place, so what is the worry?

now i'll leave it to Lao Tzu

quote:

---

"The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world, the more the people are impoverished.... The more that laws and regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there will be."

---

posted November 19, 2013 02:25 PM            

Not sure why it should take five years either? But why should,say, Putin be granted citizenship over my mother in law? She is an upstanding woman who did everything the "right" way and is quite comfortable, but she can't come up with as much money as he so he is a better candidate?

If the price of citizenship is a half million dollars a head, who stops those people giving another, say, $10K to the petty clerk who does their background check? Certainly Al Capone would see the sense in that?

But if the price of citizenship is knowing your rights and responsibilities and showing you can support yourself, yes it may take some time. I agree that many people know nothing much about their own country but that doesn't mean I wantto return to the days of "Gangs of NewYork"(just an example) nor that I am happy with our modern day facsimile where the gangs are corporations who pay legislators to write bills legaliZing fraud and robbery..

posted November 22, 2013 06:56 AM            

I am a firm believer in the fact if Destiny wanted us to be a citizen of a certain country, we would be born there. I do not like sale of Citizenship, but I am a big, big, fan of Sale of Permanent Residency without any right to Vote or enjoy free privileges.
I wrote earlier [prior to a very Immature poster derailing the thread] about how the US GDP can grow exponentially in the long run by allowing every educated middle and upper class Non American a PR for $10000.00 with zero option of Citizenship. Only thing required is privilege to do business, work, travel without Visas and pay their relevant capital gain taxes as if they are US Citizens.
This concept creates jobs, enlivens sleepy towns, booms tourism and also creates something called "Demographic Dividend", something I missed explaining earlier. India is witnessing some of the advantages of this where a young population is now 50%+, and they spend money very well leading to amazing demand for products from all over the Globe.
Many European Nations, Japan and China [due to one child policy] are going to see the opposite. Birth rates are falling, and older people will be a vast majority by say 2050-2060 AD.

This will kill new industrial investment in manufacturing, destroy real estate markets and put unbearable strain on the Health Care System. Unless young and educated people from any Nation can travel at the drop of the hat to offer their time, money and services anywhere on the Planet, most Western Economies will collapse through perpetual recession as there just won't be enough consumption to sustain their overburdened economies.

posted November 22, 2013 08:26 AM            

Hi IQ

Residency vs citizenship. I missed that difference in your origonal post

posted November 22, 2013 10:14 AM            

So for a change instead of 'welfare' seekers it's a nice change to have a different class of people come 'shell/fare??'....humans have been moving around the globe since they were created, so if they're going to be crazy to invest so much money in a country not their own why not...also with PR those ppl don't need to pay taxes to the same things they still are getting the benefits off so that's not fair at all, but why a lot of rich prefer it...

though i think trouble happens when one certain ethnicity moves into a country with a small population in large amount of numbers...i don't like that at all...as the effort they put into this 'mini invasion' they could put into improving their own country.

posted November 22, 2013 01:35 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Catalina:
Residents pay taxes on monies earned in the country of residence!

---

Not in all countries....the US and one of the countries i come from does this, but not all....so many countries if your a foreigner you get to keep what you earn...all of it.