Posts: 8538
From: Dublin, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 28, 2014 02:25 PM            

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He did. It was the signature promise, and he got it passed. No kudos from you, though.

No, you can't force any company to copy CostCo.

The point is somewhat clear I think: there are more equitable ways of conducting business that profit both Wall Street as well as the employee. In fact, while WalMart is the biggest employer in the U.S. most big companies do offer better pay and better dividends.

Walmart was hoping that the cut in food stamps would drive more business their way due to their reputation for low prices. It didn't work out that way, though. Instead, their business was hurt by the cut. Even Walmart can't predict things. Now they're looking at backing the minimum wage increase as that should put more money in their patron's pockets.

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Posts: 6757
From:
Registered: Oct 2011

posted February 28, 2014 03:20 PM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by Catalina:

And YTA, I beg to differ with you. The big banks are now, and have been, buying large portions of the industries they may or may not have funded...
http://m.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-vampire-squid -strikes-again-the-mega-banks-most-devious-scam-yet-20140212

Thanks to legislation largely written by them and/or their lobbyists.

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Catalina,

The Dodd Frank legislation is forcing banks to divest their private equity businesses. Goldman Sachs Asset Management is being broken up. Private equity/hedge fund firms are not banks. Realize that the global banking industry is in the dumps. Apart from the Japanese, which have traditionally been government subsidized and generally government interfered, the American, Brit, French and German banks are getting the hurt. The part about banks buying up industry may have worked in the 80s and 90s, but it no longer works now.

Sure, banker paychecks have been fabulous and are only going to get even fatter and bigger, but there's a huge muscial chair game played by bankers. The industry spits out more than 25% of its bankers each year, and most laid off bankers are unable to find new jobs unless they are truly superstars, in which case some other person loses their job. I know you wouldn't shed tears for laid off bankers, but it is an increasingly common occurence.

I don't work for an American bank, and that is a choice I made back in 2007, and in hindsight it was not a bad decision.

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Posts: 6757
From:
Registered: Oct 2011

posted February 28, 2014 03:26 PM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
YTA's post wasn't any kind of clarification. It was a bit of self-serving rhetoric. There is no show without the employees. Obvious.

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Any company can walk across the street and pick up willing new employees instantly. That is especially true in a downcycle with skilled labor being displaced.

I wasn't spouting skilled rhetoric. It's the standard rudimentary principle taught in every introductory business course text book. Perhaps you would like to reform all the MBA programs around the country as well. Why don't you start with HBS, Stanford and Wharton.

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Posts: 6981
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 28, 2014 03:33 PM            

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"Sorry, jwhop, this is not about legislation for minimum wage, but a shift in how businesses are structured, which puts you off topic...Catalina/katatonic

Bull pucky. O'Bomber and his socialist clowns are pushing minimum wage legislative nonsense to divert attention from their economic and health care disaster...including Dodd/Frank

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Posts: 1411
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted February 28, 2014 04:03 PM            

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Lol, Walmart are losing business and share values. No one forced Costco to be what it is but it is preferable to many customers who don't like supporting outsourcing, and do like patronizing a place where value and happier employees make for a more satisfying experience. It may be awhile before Wally's disappear altogether but the megaliths are on death row. change is"what it is", not stagnation.

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Posts: 1411
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted February 28, 2014 04:09 PM            

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Did you read the piece YTA? You're the banker, i'm just a civilian. But no one was talking about picket lines or other outside interference...

jwhop, whatever your opinion is, we were not discussing Obama or minimum wage except where Randall brought it up as a tangent... not interested in that right now thanks! There is a thread about minimum wage rho!

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Posts: 8538
From: Dublin, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 28, 2014 06:43 PM            

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I agree that it wasn't skilled rhetoric, YTA. I just couldn't call it nonsense, because it's basically true. It's just also simplistic, and doesn't really feed into your point very well. If you tried that line of thought with a successful liberal businessman, you would probably end up getting a lesson in how well businesses can run under a model that respects labor (as many companies do). I think that even you could agree that it is wise business strategy to provide an engaging and rewarding work environment.

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Posts: 38022
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 28, 2014 07:22 PM            

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Walmart isn't going anywhere. Keep dreaming. It may not be the best place to work, but it's by far the best place to shop. At least droves of people think so, myself included.

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Posts: 1411
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted March 01, 2014 12:02 AM            

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Before walmart was woolworth's, remember them? Nothing lasts forever. And there isn't one near me, so I won't comment on the shopping experience except to say lots of people don't rate it as highly as you. I don't shop thete and I don't think I should have to pay tax money to help them keep their wages low!

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Posts: 38022
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 01, 2014 12:15 AM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by Catalina:
Before walmart was woolworth's, remember them? Nothing lasts forever. And there isn't one near me, so I won't comment on the shopping experience except to say lots of people don't rate it as highly as you. I don't shop thete and I don't think I should have to pay tax money to help them keep their wages low!

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How are you paying taxes to keep their wages low?

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Posts: 183
From: Uranus
Registered: Dec 2010

posted March 01, 2014 11:50 AM            

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You should all watch "The Corporation", if you haven't yet. It brings up some very interesting points.

Corporations are (cost) externalizing machines, without regulation they can run society into the ditch. It's just how they're structured. The state must have more control (to regulate) as it is (usually, not always) in charge of things like public health and education.

Consider this,

Pollution (in any form), which degrades the environment is cost-beneficial for corporations because they don't have to pick up the tab. The state does when for example;

1) Public health deteriorates (I can't see car or fossil fuel companies paying for asthma medication or cancer treatment), OR

2) Climate change results in mass migration or expensive infrastructure for readjustment.

Of course communism has proven ineffective. I think anyone (even the Russians) would agree. That does not mean we have to pick the other extreme.

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Posts: 2617
From: 2,021 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 01, 2014 02:07 PM            

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Randall

quote:

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but it's by far the best place to shop [Walmart]

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No, it isn't. If your only interested in price, and I have been, that puts your foot in the door. Certain items like the Depends I was buying for my mother could be found cheapest there. But the rest of their offerings are pure unmitigated CRAP.

And, they make deals with certain manufactures to alter their designs in order to bring the price down. I read a rant from a lawn mower manufacturer and he refused to cheapen his product to bring the cost in line, IE broke the deal.

Also I have great Dollar Store outlets, and do not have to shop there. Which pleases me very much. WallyWorld Target and the like should be avoided, matching deals, and better deals can be found elsewhere.
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Sibyl:

quote:

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That does not mean we have to pick the other extreme

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Posts: 8538
From: Dublin, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 01, 2014 02:09 PM            

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to both of the above posts.

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Posts: 38022
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 01, 2014 02:35 PM            

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What is the other extreme? Capitalism? But great to see you admit that communism has failed. AG didn't differentiate with his thumnbs up, so I presume he agrees. Yes, communism has been a massive failure. Even the last (not so) great bastion of communism, China, is bending to capitalism.

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Posts: 2617
From: 2,021 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 01, 2014 02:48 PM            

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Yes the New capitalist in training adopted our farming techniques from the early part of the last century and created their own Dust Bowl.
http://www.earth-policy.org/plan_b_updates/2012/update110

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Posts: 183
From: Uranus
Registered: Dec 2010

posted March 01, 2014 03:23 PM            

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The other extreme is the complete free market economy (otherwise known as laissez-faire). Capitalism has many forms and not all of them are as extreme as that. Welfare capitalism (for example) is a much more moderate approach and a compromise between communism and laissez-faire capitalism.

I would not characterize the American system as welfare capitalism. Compared to other forms of rule in the world, the American system is actually leaning more towards the extreme end of capitalism.

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Posts: 38022
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 01, 2014 03:25 PM            

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I disagree. America has so many legislative restraints on business that we are not even close to that end of the spectrum.

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Posts: 183
From: Uranus
Registered: Dec 2010

posted March 01, 2014 03:45 PM            

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You really don't have enough. I think you should watch The Corporation, if you haven't already. And perhaps study a few other countries. Regulations do not necessarily mean stilted growth. Quite the contrary, actually.

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Posts: 183
From: Uranus
Registered: Dec 2010

posted March 01, 2014 03:49 PM            

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I'm sorry if I come off as arrogant when I discuss politics by the way. Life is a hobby. Politics is my soul. It's what I do.

Still. I'm going to try to keep that somewhat separate from this website. I breathe politics every hour of the day anyway.

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Posts: 8538
From: Dublin, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 01, 2014 03:55 PM            

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I've never been nor ever plan to be a Communist. I've been considering going into business for quite some time now, and that's still engaging a lot of my attention.

American companies do have some legislative restraints. That is true. The hope being that business can't exploit labor or the consumer to a degree that we would consider too much (or immoral). However, there is a bit of a work-around in globalization that many consider to be oppressive towards Americans. For instance, an American job can be outsourced to another part of the world where it will be cheaper. Such an action may not even be considered to exploit the foreigner as the wage may be within the norm of that region. Each time something like that occurs it acts as a constraint on American employment and income as conceivably someone here has lost that potential job and income (which is why Conservatives think there should be no minimum wage; they seem to think that Americans are eager to work for less despite the fact that they couldn't thrive on such low wages). It's a good, obvious way for American businesses to leverage Capital that unfortunately undercuts the prospects for American labor and consumerism (bypassing any legislation designed to protect those people from exploitation). The only way for that displaced could-be laborer to access the income generated from that business model is to be heavily invested in the stock market.

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Posts: 1411
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted March 01, 2014 06:49 PM            

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It's absolutely ridiculous to say that a conscience is a liability in business. People prefer patronizing a company that cares about its employees and customers in more ways than "how much can we getout of them". I prefer Geico to Farmers...their prices are lower and their SERVICE is way beyond how little they can get awa y with and "what can we charge you for next". The behemoths tend to bevome self-serving and forget that staff and customers are not just figures in an accounts book. That is not communism but common sense

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Posts: 38022
From: Saturn next to Charmainec
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 01, 2014 11:48 PM            

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People tend to be self-absorbed and couldn't care less about the plight of workers. They want the product/service in question at the best price, generally speaking.

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