Author
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Topic: What Should Obama Do About Iraq?
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Randall Webmaster Posts: 44821 From: Saturn next to Charmainec Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 16, 2014 02:12 PM
He seems to not know.IP: Logged |
juniperb Moderator Posts: 8452 From: Blue Star Kachina Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 16, 2014 08:38 PM
Leave it alone. Let the Sunni`s and Shite`s work out their own religious differences. Clear out the Embassy and bring Americans home. We have interfered enough. quote: Shite vs Sunni The split between Shite's and Sunnis began soon after the death of Mohammed.Ê The Sunnis believe that Ali was the last of the rightly guided caliphs ( successors) to Mohammed. The Shiites believe that Ali was the only successor and all future successors should come through his line. The Sunnis do not believe there can be successors to Mohammed. Today there are important differences between the two major groups in Islam- Those differences are somewhat similar to the differences between Catholics and Protestant in Christianity. The Shia's have supreme religious leaders similar to the Pope who is considered to be a descendant of Ali. The Sunnis do not have one religious leader, instead have distinguished scholars and jurists who issue opinions.
The Shia's glorify Ali and have a strong identification with suffering and martyrdom. On a daily bases the two groups have different calls to prayer, pray somewhat differently.There additional customs that differentiate between the two groups.
http://historycentral.com/freeIraq/sunnis.html ------------------ Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. Rumi IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 44821 From: Saturn next to Charmainec Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 16, 2014 09:38 PM
He decided to send in 275 troops.IP: Logged |
juniperb Moderator Posts: 8452 From: Blue Star Kachina Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 17, 2014 08:31 AM
No boots on the ground tho.... [ yet anyhow ] Only to secure the Embassy. A course, tomorrow likely will be a different story from him. ------------------ Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. Rumi IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 7558 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 17, 2014 09:59 AM
Now, now, let's not be cynical here.Just because O'Bomber lied about Fast and Furious...a plot to run guns to the Mexican drug cartels...AND just because O'Bomber lied about his energy policy, the plan to hand off Billions in tax payer money to his big campaign contributors...AND just because O'Bomber lied about Benghazi being all about in Internet video...AND just because O'Bomber lied about the NSA spying on American's phone and email conversations and their social media postings...AND Just because O'Bomber lied about the Justice Dept targeting reporters with wiretaps, computer hacking and on the ground surveillance...AND Just because O'Bomber lied about his IRS targeting whole groups of Americans to shut them out of the political process...AND Just because O'Bomber lied about the wonderful treatment at VA hospitals where at least 40 veterans died at just one VA center because they were denied treatment...AND Just because O'Bomber lied about O'BomberCare.."you can keep your own doctor", "you can keep your own insurance policy" "your insurance premiums will drop 25%", "there's no death panels in O'BomberCare"...AND Just because O'Bomber lied about our secure borders while hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens are streaming across our "secure border"...THAT doesn't mean O'Bomber is lying about only sending 275 military personnel into Iraq to evacuate US personnel from the war zone O'Bomber insists he won and then ended the war in Iraq....BECAUSE “Past performance is no guarantee of future results.” IP: Logged |
juniperb Moderator Posts: 8452 From: Blue Star Kachina Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 17, 2014 02:41 PM
quote: “Past performance is no guarantee of future results.”
Can you hear me sighing? My gut says an involvement "lies" ahead... ------------------ Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. Rumi IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 7558 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 17, 2014 09:59 PM
"Can you hear me sighing? My gut says an involvement "lies" ahead..."And, there "lies" the rub! IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 44821 From: Saturn next to Charmainec Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 18, 2014 03:49 PM
They burned one refinery and captured 100 foreign employees. IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 7558 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 19, 2014 11:27 AM
Yeah, and it's reported they've executed more than 2,000 Iraqis and beheaded many of them.Yet, O'Bomber dithers, wrings his hands and has his staff "talking about it"! Now there's a president on top of the situation. IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 44821 From: Saturn next to Charmainec Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 19, 2014 02:31 PM
Word is out, no troops to be sent. IP: Logged |
fairaqua Knowflake Posts: 633 From: Registered: Feb 2011
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posted June 19, 2014 03:09 PM
Its time to pack up and bring them homeIP: Logged |
iQ Moderator Posts: 4768 From: Chennai, India Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 20, 2014 07:37 AM
This is an opportune time for Obama to use drones and airstrikes on the ISIL. The ISIL are not human, they have killed innocent civilians and captured soldiers in the most barbaric of fashion. Sending US Ground Troops would not work. The ISIL defeated armies with a 1:15 disadvantage. This might be a great opportunity to bury the hatchet with Iran and join forces. Iranian Ground troops and US Air Force/Drones, they can get rid of this plague on humanity. The ISIL plans to use chemical weapons and possibly tie up with Pakistani Terrorists to get dirty bombs or even a nuke. ANd their target ultimately is not Baghdad but the entire Levant: Israel, Palestine, Lebanon and Syria. They will want to provoke Israel into a WW3 situation which results in a devastated Iran and a Barbaric Caliphate of part Turkey, Iraq, part Iran, Syria, Saudi and Yemen. Certain dark forces in Saudi Arabia are fully backing ISIL, and we cannot rule out rogue CIA elements. There is no way so much weaponry could have been amassed by ISIL, reminds me of Iron Man 1. ------------------ Astrology Articles New Services and short readings IP: Logged |
juniperb Moderator Posts: 8452 From: Blue Star Kachina Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 12, 2014 06:58 PM
When this question was asked , I hadn`t heard of isis and little of isl. (same right?). Nouri al-Maliki is stepping down, drones and 100 more advisors sent over. Hopefully a change in goverment, terrorist operations wacked and extra advisors to bring the Iraq goverment on track. Will it make a realistic and long term difference difference?
------------------ Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. Rumi IP: Logged |
callarosa Knowflake Posts: 32 From: Registered: Jun 2014
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posted August 13, 2014 12:23 AM
quote: Originally posted by juniperb:
Hopefully a change in goverment, terrorist operations wacked and extra advisors to bring the Iraq goverment on track. Will it make a realistic and long term difference difference?
Honestly, no. There will never be peace in Iraq due to the number of religious extremists and terrorist groups, and the amount of religious conflict within the region. Changing the government will not solve Iraq's problems in the short or long-term. Democracy is simply impossible in regions where prejudice, hate, and religious extremism are deeply ingrained. Unfortunately what an extremely conflict-ridden region like Iraq needs is a ruthless dictator who the terrorist groups are afraid of... and that is something Iraq no longer has. Hence, the explosion in terrorist activity within Iraq. Removing Saddam Hussein and attempting to bring democracy into Iraq just replaced one problem with a different problem. And it could be argued that the problem Iraq faces now is far worse. The situation with ISIS and the conflict within Iraq is extremely complicated and it's understandable why President Obama and the rest of the government are still deciding the best way to handle it. It's impossible to solve the issue completely. The best they could possibly do is overwhelm ISIS and send them back underground, with the understanding that sending military forces into Iraq will result in the deaths and injuries of some U.S. troops. And terrorist groups are never really "whacked", they just go underground and recruit and train new members. Terrorist organizations are near-impossible to get rid of. They will be quiet for a while, but they will strike again. IP: Logged |
shura Knowflake Posts: 1040 From: kamaloka Registered: Jun 2009
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posted August 13, 2014 12:07 PM
quote: Democracy is simply impossible in regions where prejudice, hate, and religious extremism are deeply ingrained.
But it's not deeply ingrained. Previous to Western colonialist interference, the Middle East was fairly calm. Compare to Europe. I can't offhand think of a more blood soaked land per square mile than Europe. The Middle East's religious wars and extremism pale in comparison to mighty Europa's. Democracy impossible in Europe? Consider American gun culture where we pop each other off everyday with little to no reason. Deeply ingrained? Democracy impossible? The Western imperialist powers created unrest in the Middle East and now the cooperative media rams into our heads that these people are hopelessly violent religious savages. If you recall, we did something similar with Africa as well. We're pretty good at it, in fact, and so few know the area's history (or Europe's or the States' for that matter) it's no wonder so many buy the convenient hype. IP: Logged |
Catalina Knowflake Posts: 2233 From: shamballa Registered: Aug 2013
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posted August 13, 2014 04:14 PM
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Catalina Knowflake Posts: 2233 From: shamballa Registered: Aug 2013
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posted August 13, 2014 07:44 PM
First the feudal lords and crusades and the Vatican...then the colonial empires...then the carving up to create "free" arab states and israel ignoring the divisions/groups/tribes ... if the westerners didnt intend what has transpired they were totally insensitive to the peoples they claimed to want to help/enlighten...and so it is today. This is where terrorism gains the support of the peoples...and yes, as they get stronger they become more deadly.When they win they are called Revolutionaries and Founding Fathers...Reagan recognized this and tried to ally with the early version of the Taliban...when they looked like a good bet in undermining the Russian occupation there. Again, we helped create the Taliban and Israel helped create Hamas by their "pre-emptive" warmongering IP: Logged |
Catalina Knowflake Posts: 2233 From: shamballa Registered: Aug 2013
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posted August 13, 2014 07:46 PM
But while its only a matter of degree I agree better to have a president who prefers not rushing in than one whose motto is "bring it on"IP: Logged |
shura Knowflake Posts: 1040 From: kamaloka Registered: Jun 2009
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posted August 13, 2014 08:23 PM
Fools rush in or bring it on are slogans used to satiate the masses. Let's be frank. Barry doesn't have a say in these matters anymore than you or I do. Imagine the instability of a State which changes leaders every 4 or 8 years! Please. Who in their right mind would allow such a thing? ISIS will be given leave to do what ISIS will do so long as they serve the greater purpose. They're dangerous, to be sure. But watch them, they're equally as useful. Everyone needs a henchman. Trick is keeping the henchman in line. Cut off a Hydra head and two more will rise in its place.IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 44821 From: Saturn next to Charmainec Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 14, 2014 10:40 AM
Obama has so much innocent blood on his hands that it really doesn't matter anymore.IP: Logged |
Catalina Knowflake Posts: 2233 From: shamballa Registered: Aug 2013
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posted August 14, 2014 11:46 AM
Obama has minimized the bloodshed tho what shura says is true. Basically to be President now is to go along or at least be seen to be going along... that he drags his heels is commendable if ultimately futile. Unless of course the PEOPLE stand up...god forbid, right? Marianne Williamson posted this today: CITIZEN ALERT: WHAT IS HAPPENING IN FERGUSON, MO. IS HAPPENING TO ALL OF US Another young black man has been shot and killed for ...doing nothing. You're not being an alarmist if you're naming facts that are truly alarming. When police kill unarmed citizens, that's not police work -- it's murder. When citizens gather peacefully to protest, and the police are out in SWAT gear with AK-47's pointed at the protesters, that's not acceptable -- Americans have the Constitutional right to peacefully assemble. When any of us avert our eyes from what is happening in Ferguson, MO. -- and in New York, and now in Los Angeles -- that's dangerous. This situation is urgent, and our freedom is on the line. The situation is particularly disturbing because of the danger posed by this pattern of police overreach to African-American men particularly. But this is not just a black issue. It's an American issue, and it is not something we should ignore. If this kind of thing is happening to any of us then it's potentially happening to all of us. This is not a time to be numb in America. Watch this on TV. Read about it. Spread the word. The worst thing that can happen is for the police or the government to figure that they can just ride this out -- that in time, we'll get over it. Two reporters now have been arrested and manhandled, as well. We should not just "get over it." I have great admiration for the people of Ferguson who showed up peacefully on Wednesday night, standing with their arms raised in front of those policemen standing there with heavy military gear. And thanks as well to the journalists who are there, and doing their job. You go, Ferguson. We're standing watch, and we're with you. You've heard of Ferguson, have you? Supposedly the Governor is going to mosey on down there today to see whats going on. I keep hearing the feds are going to relieve the local rotweilers or state cops, still it goes on. Yes Iraq is terrible isn't it? IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 7558 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 14, 2014 01:55 PM
"Obama has minimized the bloodshed tho what shura says is true."Hmmm, let's call this what it really is! Drinking the O'Bomber Kool-Aid by the tanker car full. Forgotten are the tens of thousands killed in Libya as a direct result of O'Bomber's hand wringing indecisiveness. Forgotten are the tens of thousenads killed in Egypt killed by O'Bomber's pals, the Muslim Brotherhood. Forgotten are the 170,000 plus killed in Syria as a direct result of O'Bomber's hand wringing indecisiveness. Ho, whatever happened to that "red line" O'Bomber marked out for Syria? Forgotten are the tens of thousands killed by the terrorists of ISIS in Syria and Iraq as O'Bomber dithers and wrings his hands. Randall is right. O'Bomber will never be able to wash all the innocent blood off his hands. IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 44821 From: Saturn next to Charmainec Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 14, 2014 03:03 PM
Leaders don't drag their heels--cowards do.IP: Logged |
shura Knowflake Posts: 1040 From: kamaloka Registered: Jun 2009
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posted August 14, 2014 04:55 PM
Of course he has blood on his hands. So do I. So do you. The keypad I'm taping away on. Blood. The cellphone I just texted on. Blood. The car I'm about to get into and the gas that will power it. Blood. The clothes I'm wearing. Blood. No one here is living off the grid on a remote desert island, correct? Didn't think so. Then you are a willing participant in a bloody game. Same as Obama.IP: Logged |
juniperb Moderator Posts: 8452 From: Blue Star Kachina Registered: Apr 2009
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posted August 14, 2014 07:10 PM
You getting all philosophical on us now shura ?!! ------------------ Christian, Jew, Muslim, Shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the Mystery, unique and not to be judged. Rumi IP: Logged |