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Author Topic:   Increase In Antarctic Ice Caused By Global Warming?
Randall
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posted July 04, 2014 10:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Government scientists are not only blaming global warming for the centuries-long collapse of western Antarctic ice sheets, but global warming is also being blamed for record levels of sea ice in the South Pole.

Antarctica’s sea ice set another record this week, reaching 815,448 square miles above normal, breaking a record set this past weekend of 800,776 square miles above normal ice coverage.

These two records set within a week of one another shattered the previous ice extent record of 710,428 square miles above average that was set back on December 20, 2007.

But record-breaking ice coverage still worries scientists who argue that it’s being caused by global warming.

“The primary reason for this is the nature of the circulation of the Southern Ocean — water heated in high southern latitudes is carried equatorward, to be replaced by colder waters upwelling from below, which inhibits ice loss,” Mark Serreze, director of the National Snow and Ice Data Center, told author Harold Ambler in an email.

“Upon this natural oceanic thermostat, one will see the effects of natural climate variations, [the rise] appears to be best explained by shifts in atmospheric circulation although a number of other factors are also likely involved,” Serreze told Ambler, who blogs about global warming.

Serreze’s response confused Ambler, who asked him to clarify over the phone what exactly was causing the ocean to warm up. “Was it, simply, global warming?” Ambler asked.

“Exactly!” Serreze responded.

NASA scientist Walt Meier said that growing Antarctic sea ice coverage is less significant a measure than declining Arctic sea ice coverage. Ambler reported that Meier even discounted global sea ice extent as a useful climate indicator.

“While the Arctic has seen large decreases through the year in all sectors, the Antarctic has a very regional signal – with highs in some areas and lows in others,” Meier said last year. “And of course, the Arctic volume is decreasing substantially through the loss of old ice. The Antarctic, which has very little old ice, hasn’t much of a volume change, relatively speaking.”

“A plot of global sea ice is just not informative or useful,” Meier said.

Many scientists have been sounding the alarm on Antarctica despite the record levels of sea ice in the region. Last year, Dutch researchers argued that global warming was causing Antarctic sea ice to expand because “cool freshwater from melt beneath the Antarctic ice shelves has insulated offshore sea ice from the warming ocean beneath,” according to the Herald Sun newspaper.

“Against the background of global climate warming, the expansion of Antarctic sea ice is an exceptional feature, which seems to be associated with decreasing sea surface temperatures in the Southern Ocean,” wrote scientists with the Royal Netherlands Meteorological Institute in the journal Nature Geoscience.

“We predict that this mechanism will be a sizable contributor to the factors that regionally and seasonally offset greenhouse warming and the associated sea ice retreat,” the scientists wrote.

More recently, scientists have focused on collapsing ice sheets in western Antarctica. In May, NASA scientists told reporters that west Antarctic glaciers had gone into “irreversible retreat” which could raise sea levels between 10 and 13 feet.

“Today we present observational evidence that the [ice sheet] has gone into irreversible retreat,” said Eric Rignot, the lead author of a study claiming the western Antarctic was collapsing. “It has reached the point of no return.”

Researchers at the University of Washington corroborated Rignot’s findings by using computer models to determine the western Antarctic ice sheet was collapsing — though the collapse would occur over centuries, between 200 to 900 years.

“Our simulations provide strong evidence that the process of marine ice-sheet destabilization is already under way on Thwaites Glacier, largely in response to high subshelf melt rates,” wrote the University of Washington scientists in their study published in the journal Science. “Similar behavior also may be under way on neighboring Pine Island Glacier.”

But past studies have shown the Antarctic glacier collapses are nothing new. The British Antarctic Survey (BAS) put out two studies in the past year showing that Antarctica has gone through similar periods of glacier collapse in the past.

A BAS study from February 2014 shows that 8,000 years ago Antarctica’s Pine Island glacier thinned just as quickly as it has in recent decades — thousands of years before massive amounts of man-made carbon dioxide emissions were released into the atmosphere.

Not only did the Pine Island glacier melt rapidly in the past, it was also able to naturally reverse the melting.

Another BAS study from last year argued the current melt in the western Antarctic is within the “natural range of climate variability” of the last 300 years.

“The record shows that this region has warmed since the late 1950s, at a similar magnitude to that observed in the Antarctic Peninsula and central West Antarctica,” said a BAS study published in the journal Geophysical Research Letters, “however, this warming trend is not unique.”

“More dramatic isotopic warming (and cooling) trends occurred in the mid-19th and 18th centuries, suggesting that at present the effect of anthropogenic climate drivers at this location has not exceeded the natural range of climate variability in the context of the past ~300 years,” the study continued.
http://dailycaller.com/2014/07/03/govt-scientists-antarctic-sea-ice-is-growing-because-of-global-warming/

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jwhop
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posted July 06, 2014 12:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Global warming computer models confounded as Antarctic sea ice hits new record high with 2.1million square miles more than is usual for time of year

Ice is covering 16m sq km, more than 2.1m unusual for time of year
UN computer models say Antarctic ice should be in decline, not increasing
By David Rose

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2681829/Global-warming-latest-Amount-Antarctic-sea-ice-hits-new-record-high.html

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Randall
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posted July 09, 2014 11:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Quite an inconvenient truth, isn't it?

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jwhop
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posted July 11, 2014 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's inconvenient for "rational people" Randall but the high priests of the Man Made Global Warming Religion rant that colder summers and winters along with heavy ice formation at the earth's poles are also manifestations of...Man Made Global Warming.

They've got it all covered with BS rhetoric.

Too hot...it's Man Made Global Warming
Too cold...it's Man Made Global Warming
Less ice at the poles...it's Man Made Global Warming.
More ice at the poles..it's Man Made Global Warming.

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AcousticGod
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posted July 11, 2014 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.carbonbrief.org/blog/2014/07/factcheck-what%E2%80%99s-the-significance-of-a-record-high-in-antarctic-sea-ice/

They may be stumped for why, but no rational person is claiming that global warming has somehow been mitigated because of ice growth on ONE poll.

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jwhop
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posted July 12, 2014 09:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"They may be stumped for why, but no rational person is claiming that global warming has somehow been mitigated because of ice growth on ONE poll...acoustic

Science...including climate science IS NOT BASED ON POLLS but rather on "Scientific Method"

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Catalina
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posted July 12, 2014 12:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Meanwhile back at the ranch...erm...Miami Beach
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/11/miami-drowning-climate-change-deniers-sea-levels-rising

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Randall
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posted July 12, 2014 02:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And "consensus" is a political term, which has nothing to do with real science or the scientific method. It is most telling to hear this term thrown around by them.

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Catalina
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posted July 12, 2014 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Acoustic spelled pole wrong, jwhop. Who is talking about polls? I realize you dont care about context but... wake up!

And who is throwing the word consensus around?

Did you read the link Randall? No models involved just reality in Miami Beach. Do you think they care who is causing the sea rise?

While conservatives pretend its all about blame, most people just want not to be drowned out, literally.

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Randall
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posted July 12, 2014 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I didn't go to the link. If you haven't heard about the "consensus," you must try to get out more--or at least switch on the news.

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Catalina
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posted July 12, 2014 05:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh i've heard of it. Not in this convo tho. Like the situation in the article, deniers pretend that because the warming may not be manmade it is less real somehow.

Those prone to ridiculing the use of the word consensus are also likely to present watertight arguments like "earth is about the same temp as mars, mars has no carbon producing industry, therefore earth temps can't be influenced by same"...yes water tight.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118620/kentucky-republican-says-mars-dispro ves-global-warming

There is sloppy science on both sides and Miami beach is still going under

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jwhop
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posted July 12, 2014 10:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, so how much has the sea level risen in Miami Florida in the last 40 years??? Huh, huh, huh???

No BS rhetoric. I want an measurement in inches and or feet. No bullshiiit projections either. So how much actual?

By the way, I live on the west coast of Florida, connected to the very same sea water which flows by Miami. Not one millimeter of sea rise here. How do you account for that? Or, don't you know that water...including sea water will seek the same level in any container where water is connected and not blocked or partitioned by a barrier.

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AcousticGod
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posted July 13, 2014 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A spelling error on my part has very little to do the science involved here, which hasn't changed.

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Catalina
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posted July 13, 2014 04:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I suggest you read the Guardian article jwhop it explains a lot. It mentions dates, contributing factors and yes measurements. You are on the gulf are you not? Different kettle...

But instead of bringing out the belligerent barricade, if you read the article it would be lovely to, just once, discuss facts and possibilities. Not everything is about being right. The science on both sides is flawed, in some cases a little and in others to ridiculous extremes.

In fact we are at a point where continual attempts at shouting down the "other" will get us all boiled in oil. Is having it all your way and being "right" more important than your grandki ds' quality of life?

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jwhop
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posted July 15, 2014 11:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With your definitions dysfunction, who can say what you mean when they read your drivel?

Yeah, with a strong southeast to northwest wind blowing at big high tides, there will be water backing up and overflowing into storm drains. Nothing new in that. It happens here too...and has been happening since the barrier islands were constructed by dredging sand off the Florida coast to build them up.

But, the highest water levels occurred about 1963...not today. Just more blither, blather, bloviation and bullshiiite from the Man Made Global Warming hysterics.

Oh dear, if you want to live on a man made barrier island, steps away from the ocean, then you need to take the bad...with the good or MOVE.

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Catalina
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posted July 15, 2014 12:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anyone who understood the impact of context would have understood that was a typo on AG's part, jwhop. Perhaps your computer is so old it doesn't interfere with your spelling, many of us have to keep an eye out for overactive editing functions.
...

In your previous post you point out how similar your situation is to theirs. In this one you take the opportunity to run down their situation(being different from yours) and choice of being there...which is it?

As I said there are contributing factors. In fact the way we have built is part of the ultimate probem, in a big way. It may even be THE problem. I agree that constructs like Miami Beach are disasters waiting to happen.

But your assertion that the worst was over 50 years ago is not supported by your chart. The article talks about the significant difference over the LAST 8 YEARS and your chart ends 9 years ago. So its irrelevant.

THOSE are not computer instigated typos.

I guess solutions are irrelevant too. Anyway, nothing for you to worry about, it's not your backyard and those folk must be stoopid so who cares.

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jwhop
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posted July 17, 2014 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I choose to live where I live..on a barrier island in Florida. I put up with the negatives...like occasional flooding from storm surge at exceptionally high tides with the wind blowing from the southeast to the northwest.

The positives outweigh the negatives.

The whiners in the man made global warming religion fail to understand...or deliberately lie about flooding on the Florida coasts. It's nothing new. It's been going on in low lying areas of the Florida coast since the barrier islands were constructed to shield the mainland areas from exceptionally high tides and storm surge.

Whine on!

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