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Author Topic:   truth sometimes hurts
shura
Knowflake

Posts: 1019
From: kamaloka
Registered: Jun 2009

posted July 21, 2014 09:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Report released today from Doctors Without Borders http://www.msf.org.uk/article/gaza-strip-israel-must-stop-bombing-trapped-civilians

Since the beginning of Operation Protective Edge in the Gaza Strip, the majority of the dead and wounded in Gaza are civilians and medical workers are also coming under fire, the international medical humanitarian organisation Médecins Sans Frontières/Doctors Without Borders (MSF) said today.
Women and children comprised most of the wounded people arriving on Sunday morning in the emergency room in Al Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, where MSF is working, following heavy shelling overnight and in the morning in the city’s Ash Shuja’iyeh neighbourhood.
MSF personnel witnessed hundreds of people fleeing the area. MSF calls on Israel to stop bombing civilians trapped in the sealed-off Gaza strip, and to respect the safety of medical workers and health facilities.


“Shelling and air strikes are not only intense but are also unpredictable, which makes it very difficult for MSF and other medical workers to move and provide much needed emergency care,” said Nicolas Palarus, MSF field coordinator in Gaza.

Two brothers, eight and four, were among the hundreds of civilians wounded overnight in Ash Shuja’iyeh. They lay side by side in Al Shifa’s intensive burn care unit, suffering severe burns from a missile strike on their house.

It was only at dawn that people began to flee the area by foot or in packed vehicles, and when wounded people were able to reach the hospital either by ambulance or on their own.

“In the emergency resuscitation room, half of the severe cases died within minutes, and half required emergency surgery,” said Audrey Landmann, MSF medical coordinator in Gaza.

At the hospital, MSF also witnessed two paramedics who had died and two others who were injured while trying to retrieve wounded from Ash Shuja’iyeh.


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Catalina
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From: shamballa
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posted July 21, 2014 12:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The sad thing to me, PJ, apart from the neverending war and carnage, is that before Israel was created in the midst of another people's land...Judaism WAS a religion of peace. The Jews never forced themselves or their religion on anyone, never intimidated those of other faiths, in fact they kept to themselves so much that they were an easy target for those seeking scapegoats...but not so much as to be invisible like, say the Amish, who barely penetrate general society.

Is it the making of an Official State Religion that causes this transformation? Or the fact that most people only see their own side of a story? The creation of Israel involved the disenfranchisement of many people and many many Jews foresaw this and refused to be a part of it.

It saddens me to see a people who have been the victim of genocide justifying genocidal tactics as in the words of the Israeli MP I posted earlier on.

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Catalina
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From: shamballa
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posted July 21, 2014 12:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Self-defense, jwhop...does not include "the mothers should all be killed before they breed more snakes..." and the children, too, are terrorists, right? Maybe she thinks so because Israeli children are trained up to cheer the death of those Snakes....?


Ayelet Shaked of the ultra-nationalist Jewish Home party called for the slaughter of Palestinian mothers who give birth to "little snakes."

"They have to die and their houses should be demolished so that they cannot bear any more terrorists," Shaked said, adding, "They are all our enemies and their blood should be on our hands. This also applies to the mothers of the dead terrorists.”


BOTH SIDES think they are defending themselves. What makes one right and the other wrong? The fact that the UN put them there? Both sides tell themselves the other side are unworthy of life, subhuman...and it goes nowhere. The Holy land is so far from sacred to any of them it should be renamed the Holey Land.

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted July 22, 2014 09:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Memo to all the Jew haters.

What's clear is that Hamas is locating rocket launchers in schools, apartment buildings, hospitals, parks and other places where there are civilians...including children. It's a deliberate tactic to cause civilian casualties.

There are also reports Hamas prevents civilians from evacuating areas AFTER Israel dropped leaflets warning civilians they were in a zone which was subject to attack.

Now, Hamas has rejected a cease fire plan which Israel had already accepted. Yet to all the Jew haters, it's Israel who is responsible for civilian casualties. These Jew haters just can't get it through their pea brains that Israel will not permit the firing of thousands of rockets from Gaza at Israeli population centers..nor should they.

They also can't accept the fact Israelis are not going to simply lay down and allow themselves to be killed by Islamic terrorists.

Hamas keeps up rocket attacks after Israel agrees to cease-fire
Batsheva Sobelman, Carol J. Williams

Israeli officials agree to a cease-fire in their week of attacks on Gaza, but Hamas rejects the deal

Rockets from Gaza land in southern Israel hours after Israel agrees to cease fire on Hamas

July 15, 2014,
Reporting from Jerusalem

Israel's Cabinet on Tuesday accepted an Egyptian proposal for a cease-fire with Hamas, but the militant group rejected the offer, putting a pause in the week-long armed conflict that has killed nearly 200 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip at risk..

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office confirmed the Israeli security cabinet's approval of the cease-fire shortly after a 9 a.m. deadline Tuesday morning.

Hamas immediately rejected the proposal, saying the militant group's conditions for a cease-fire were not met and it was not included in discussions. "We were not part of the announcement so we are not going to commit to it," Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri told The Times.

"What we are demanding is not just an end to the fighting but also an end to the unjust situation that we live under," Abu Zuhri said. "The issue is not only the cease-fire. The most important thing is how to guarantee the stability and the rights for the people to live a normal life and to stop the catastrophe that we live in.

"So we in Hamas will continue our fighting and defend our people until we achieve our goals," he said.

Despite Hamas' rejection of the proposed cease-fire, Israel Defense Forces Lt. Col. Peter Lerner confirmed as of 10:50 a.m. local time Tuesday that the military was holding fire. “We remain alert and preserve high preparedness levels, both defensive and offensive. If the Hamas terror organization will fire at Israel, we shall respond,” Lerner said.

A proposal by Egyptian mediators late Monday called for both sides to observe a cease-fire within 12 hours of the proposal's release and to sit down with mediators in Cairo within 48 hours of suspending all land, sea and airstrikes.

During a joint appearance with Germany's foreign minister, Netanyahu said defended Israel's military operation as one to protect Israeli citizens from rocket attacks by Hamas. "We have accepted the Egyptian proposal in order to provide the opportunity for demilitarizing the Gaza Strip of rockets and tunnels by diplomatic ways," Netanyahu said, "But if Hamas does not accept this cease-fire proposal — and right now it looks that way — Israel will have every international legitimacy to expand its military operation to restore the necessary calm."

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said through a spokeswoman that the cease-fire agreement "provides an opportunity to end the violence and restore calm."

"We welcome the Israeli cabinet's decision to accept it. We urge all other parties to accept the proposal," spokeswoman Marie Harf tweeted, attributing the statement to Kerry.

To Hamas and the palestinians, peace is just a tactic that is useful in their attempt to defeat Israel. They simply will NOT accept the existance of a non-muslim state. When will people realize this basic fact. Anyone from their side that negotiates for peace will simply be killed by them....

Human rights groups have said bombardment of the densely populated Gaza Strip coastal region had killed more civilians than militants. Health officials in Gaza said 191 people have been killed and about 1,400 injured in the conflict. There had been no Israeli deaths from the nearly 1,088 rockets fired into Israel from Gaza, Israel's military said Tuesday.

Three hours after the proposed deadline for the cease-fire commitments, sirens continued to sound in southern Israel as nearly two-dozen rockets were fired from Gaza. Most landed in open areas. One hit a building in Ashdod, and at least one was intercepted by Israel's Iron Dome missile defense system.

Six members of Israel's Security Cabinet voted to approve the cease-fire, while two hard-liners, Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman and Economy Minister Naftali Bennet, opposed it.

Israeli opposition leader Isaac Herzog welcomed the cease-fire but said if it does not lead to a diplomatic process, it will be worthless. "The government must translate the cease-fire into the basis for a diplomatic process that will bring immediate change. Otherwise, it will be a worthless time-out before the next round," he said.

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas did not immediately comment on the two sides' responses to Egypt's cease-fire proposal. Officials of Hamas, which controls Gaza, were scornful.

“The cease-fire proposal was discussed by everyone except us – Kerry, Netanyahu, Egypt, but not Hamas," Abu Zuhri said. "This ceasefire proposal is like an ambush.”

The Hamas spokesman cited the proposal’s failure to require the lifting of Israel’s blockade of Palestinian territory or the opening of all border crossings with Egypt and Israel.

Hamas also demanded the release of Palestinians jailed in recent Israeli military sweeps, an end to all aggression against Palestinian territory and a halt to Israeli attempts to disrupt the work of the Palestinians’ national unity government.

Abbas, in a letter to U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, on Monday asked that an urgent meeting of the Security Council be convened to respond to his request for international protection under U.N. auspices of Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

Former Israeli Ambassador to the United States Michael Oren, currently with the Lauder School of Government, Diplomacy, and Strategy at Interdisciplinary Center Herzliya, said during a conference call with reporters that “Israel has taken a brave and prudent step by creating diplomatic context to the military operation.”

The next steps toward ensuring a lasting cease-fire are not inevitable, but are likely to include a demand for some demilitarization of the Gaza Strip similar to the way Syria gave up its chemical weapons arsenal, Oren said.

"Hamas can go the way of [Syrian President] Bashar [Assad] and become more a part of the solution than the problem," he said. "If Hamas demilitarizes, lets inspectors take out the long-range rockets ... Hamas could still be a player. Not an armed player but still there.”

Oren said Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu “deserves some very high credit for resisting rising public pressure to escalate quickly on the ground," adding that he might pay a political price for preventing further escalation.

Shimon Bouskila, a resident of the southern Israeli town of Sderot, which has lived under rocket fire from Gaza for more than a decade, was not satisfied with the state of the cease-fire.

“We are not so pleased because we know it is short-lived. We want quiet for decades, not a few months," Bouskila told Israeli TV Channel 1. "The government and army should put their heads together and figure out how to solve the problem once and for all. We are willing to spend a month and more in the bomb shelter for them to finish this rocket fire once and for all.”
http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-israelis-palestinians-c ease-fire-20140714-story.html#page=1

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shura
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From: kamaloka
Registered: Jun 2009

posted July 22, 2014 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jwhop, please spare me the cheap and easy Jew hater accusations. There are no Jew haters here and you know it.

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted July 22, 2014 12:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sure as hell, no one would "know it" by what's been said here on the subject.

It's been a steady drumbeat of hateful and false accusations and insinuations against Jews and Israel.

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shura
Knowflake

Posts: 1019
From: kamaloka
Registered: Jun 2009

posted July 22, 2014 12:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Judaism and Israel are not one and the same. Please consider the Orthodox Jew position on Israel. MANY Jews opposed the formation of Israel for both political and religious reasons and many still do. You oppose Obama's policies, yes? Shall I run with that and assume you harbor racist thoughts of African Americans? You dislike Clinton? Are you then prejudiced against southerners? Does your disagreement with American policy indicate a hatred of Christianity, the United States' most popular religion? No, of course not. Judaism is a beautiful religion. Netanyahu is a brutal bloodthirsty tyrant. It's not that complex an opinion.

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shura
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From: kamaloka
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posted July 22, 2014 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you're interested in Judaism, knock on the door of an Orthodox Jew. This, not Zionism, is a genuine modern Judaism. These people truly understand and practice their religion. They understand that Judaism is a religion, a most ancient and holy religion, but it is not an excuse for nationalism.

"We didn't have an army, we didn't have a state, and we survived. And our Talmud tells us the secret ..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3SJYRkI2hM

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Catalina
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From: shamballa
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posted July 22, 2014 12:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Its purely "good copy" shura. Immediately after I post a two-sided comment he comes out with jewhaters again..unwilling to admit that jews themselves are among the most active protesters...including the admittedly "stupid american" jewish boy in the OP vid.

So nice of our proud WASP to define jewish folk as jew haters...saves looking at what people actually are saying.

I suppose if Auschwitz had revolted they would have been labelled terrorists by Germans...

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Catalina
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From: shamballa
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posted July 22, 2014 01:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Those tunnels operate because of the embargo and when embargo is lifted they shut down. I wonder why?

I conclude that this topic is too complex for the Campaign Mentality. Some people feel happier picking a side and sticking with it and no facts must intervene that show the many flaws in the party line.

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shura
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From: kamaloka
Registered: Jun 2009

posted July 24, 2014 10:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cat, I wish the embargo lists were better publicized. Some items which have been banned include wheelchairs, refrigerators, candles, and light bulbs. Many like to ask why Gaza does not invest in its infrastructure. That's a difficult thing to do when the import of cement and steel and simple construction vehicles have been outlawed. And some wonder why Hamas won't sign a peace treaty unless the embargo is lifted??? No one in their right mind would sign that ceasefire agreement.

Now we are expected to believe Hamas is hiding weapons in UN shelters.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/07/israeli-shells-hi ts-un-shelter-gaza-201472413198190287.html

At least 15 people have been reported killed and 200 injured in the Israeli shelling of a UN school in northern Gaza which was being used as a shelter from fierce clashes on the streets outside
Al Jazeera's correspondent Nicole Johnston, reporting from Gaza, said the school in Beit Hanoun came under fire on Thursday. She said sources had told Al Jazeera that up to 30 people had been killed in the bombardment.

The Gaza health ministry later said that 15 were confirmed dead, and 200 injured.

In an interview with Al Jazeera Chris Gunness, the spokesman for UNRWA, the UN's humanitarian organisation in Gaza, said his organisation had been in contact with Israeli forces as fighting closed in on the shelter.

"We gave the Israelis the precise GPS co-ordinates of the Beit Hanoun shelter. We were trying to co-ordinate a window [for evacuation] and that was never granted."

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted July 27, 2014 08:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
July 27, 2014
Indicting Hamas for War Crimes
By Michael Curtis

Hamas must be indicted in the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity and war crimes. Evidence of Hamas’s crimes in the Gaza Strip has been visible for a decade to anyone not blinded by an obsessive commitment to an anti-Israeli or anti-Semitic outlook. It is now obvious to the head of the United Nations, even as it is denied by the U.N. Human Rights Council; by Navi Pillay, U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights; by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoðan; and by all those dedicated to the demonization or destruction of Israel

The truth has been revealed, unexpectedly, by two organizations: the European Union and the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees (UNRWA), a body that challenges the United Nations Human Rights Council for the title of the most worthless international organization in the world.

At the meeting on July 22, 2014, the 28 foreign ministers of the EU declared that the indiscriminate firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas and militant groups in the Gaza Strip, directly harming civilians, constituted “criminal and unjustifiable acts.”

One can paraphrase the quote from Oscar Wilde. To find unexpectedly hidden in one of the UNRWA schools in the Gaza Strip a batch of 20 rockets on July 16, 2014 that Hamas was planning to fire against Israeli civilians may be regarded as a misfortune; to find a second batch of rockets in another UNRWA school three days later looks like carelessness. Wilde might also have mentioned incompetence. UNRWA said it was unable to confirm the precise number of rockets in the second school. Nor did it mention any other of the UNRWA schools that have been misused, with or without its knowledge or approval, to house weapons to be used by Hamas.

UNRWA may well be the only group of individuals “shocked” at these “discoveries” known previously to every objective observer of Middle Eastern affairs. The naive UNRWA did issue a statement that it “strongly and unequivocally condemns the group or groups responsible for this flagrant violation of the inviolability of its premises under international law.” Yet it appeared uninformed of the name of any such group. In fact, declaring that it was doing so in order to preserve the safety and security of the schools under its auspices, UNRWA handed the rockets in its schools back to unnamed “local government authorities in Gaza.” The “authorities” turned out to be the terrorist group Hamas.

UNRWA officials, after being caught out by their “discoveries,” stressed the importance of neutrality on all premises. What neutrality? They refuse to acknowledge their partisanship: the use of UNRWA schools for stockpiling weapons and as alleged bases for firing rockets. Those officials do not concede that Hamas has used its facilities to commit war crimes by attacking Israeli civilians while it uses schoolchildren as human shields, and operates the schools to safeguard its rocket facilities.

UNRWA, at a minimum, has been irresponsible in turning a blind eye to Hamas crimes. Instead, it called for an investigation after a girls’ school, believed to be hiding rockets, was shelled by Israel. UNRWA discounts the Israeli behavior that contrasts so strongly with that of Hamas. Israel, in Operation Protection Edge, issues warnings; drops leaflets to Gaza civilians; and sends phone, TV, and radio messages before its attacks. The level of Gaza civilian causalities is disquieting, and no doubt mistakes have been made, as in all wars, but the level is the consequence of Hamas’s use of civilians as shields, and its putting weapons systems in populated areas. UNRWA should be aware that Israel has set up a field hospital near the Erez Crossing to treat wounded Palestinians, an act it had done once before in January 2009.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon witnessed the reality for himself. In Jerusalem on July 22, 2014, he declared it “quite shocking” to see all kinds of rockets fired by Hamas and Islamic Jihad on “the heads of all the people and neighborhoods where many people are living.” No country, he added, would accept rockets raining down on its territory. A day later, on July 23, 2014, Ban Ki-moon also expressed outrage and regret at the placing of weapons in a U.N.-administered school. Those responsible, he said, are turning schools into military targets and endangering the lives of innocent children.

The Obama administration has not been as forthright as it should be on this issue. The call by some administration officials for the disarming of Hamas is a pious aspiration. In similar manner, the State Department spokesperson, Marie Harf, explained that UNRWA was "a relief organization, not a peacekeeping organization that can deal with rockets.” UNRWA does offer relief to Palestinian refugees, but it also runs a children’s summer camp that includes recitals of chants with the words “we have to liberate Palestine.” UNRWA has 30,000 employees, some of whom are supporters of Hamas. The textbooks used in its schools have sometimes referred to Jews as pigs and monkeys, and they contain implications that action against the State of Israel is heroic.

It was surprising that Secretary of State John Kerry stated on July 21, 2014 that the U.S. was planning to grant the Gaza Strip $47 million in humanitarian aid, $15 million of which will be distributed by UNRWA. The U.S. administration is aware of the extent and the considerable number of “offensive tunnels” built by Hamas to infiltrate Israeli territory. Some calculations are that each tunnel costs $1 million to build and uses large quantities of concrete, material that could be put to better use for civilian housing, which is sadly lacking. One tunnel is located under the al-Wafa hospital, where Hamas has a command post and stores weapons. Can Secretary Kerry ensure that the $47 million will be used only for civilian housing?

What the United States administration and the U.N. secretary-general should be doing is indicting Hamas before the International Criminal Court. The Court was established on July 1, 2002 on the principles adopted by the Rome Statute on July 17, 1998. The Court has jurisdiction over genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes. This jurisdiction is applicable to acts committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population.

In its behavior towards Israel, Hamas is guilty of both crimes against humanity and war crimes according to Article 7(1) of the Rome Statute, which applies to murder and extermination. Hamas is guilty of a government policy in which those two crimes are part of a widespread or systematic practice. Its actions are more than isolated inhumane acts and constitute a consistent pattern of behavior. The stated aim of Hamas is not simply to harm Israeli civilians, but rather a policy of genocide, the killing of Jews, and the elimination of the State of Israel. Hamas has really only one grievance: the existence of Israel.

Article 8(2)(b) of the Rome Statute deals with the war crime of using protected persons as shields. Hamas has been guilty on numerous occasions of this crime – the intention to shield a military objective from attack or shield, favor, or impede military operations. The major war crime of Hamas is to use children for this purpose. Golda Meir, in her straightforward manner, once commented, “We will only have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us.” In contrast, Hamas has stated that preserving the capacity to bomb civilians in Israel is more valued than the loss of Palestinian children.

Those children have been used not only as human shields to protect the terrorists. They have also been used for actions such as being messengers and couriers for the terrorists, for digging tunnels into Israel, and for smuggling. Hamas has used them for military activities, including throwing grenades and rocks, and even for suicide bomber missions. Schools and kindergartens have been used to store missiles and mortars and as launching sites, in the same way as hospitals, mosques, and public places have been used. The sad reality is that Gaza children do not dream of becoming rocket scientists; they dream of firing rockets and becoming holy martyrs.

There is ample evidence to present to the International Criminal Court, including the outspoken statement of the U.N. secretary-general, the discovery that tunnels used for aggression are located under hospitals and private property, and the videos of Hamas actions. One video clearly shows rockets being fired next to civilian buildings. Another shows a demonstration of human shields as civilians were forced to gather on top of the home of a known Hamas terrorist to prevent an attack by Israel. Ban Ki-moon has spoken of the need to address the “root causes” of instability in Gaza. A case brought against Hamas before the International Criminal Court would find that the basis of instability in Gaza is the crimes against humanity and the war crimes committed by Hamas.
http://americanthinker.com/2014/07/indicting_hamas_for_war_crimes.html

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Catalina
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From: shamballa
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posted July 27, 2014 03:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess Palestinian children are trauma free in the face of the thousands of deaths they have witnessed, starvation, dirty water, and the unbelievably heavy bombing by superior forces...right/

note that the article below reckons the mainstream media backs Israel's point of view almost to a man. The other day in Paris Jewish neighborhoods and businesses were trashed and anti-Semitism was blamed...until some Jewish activists admitted they caused the damage trying to get at proPalestine demonstrators...the mainstream was all about anti-Semitic violence, it was MondoWeiss, a paper run by Jews, who uncovered the misinterpretation.
http://m.thenation.com/article/180783-five-israeli-talking-points-gaza-debunked

But everyone who deplores the plight of trapped Palestinians who are not even allowed to elect anyone Israel doesn't like...wants to destroy Israel and Jews.

Propaganda abounds on both sides. The contest remains incredibly unbalanced with the military might of the US and Israel on one side and the rockets of Hamas on the other.

Never mind that the casualty toll on the Gaza side of the barriers is a thousand times what has happened in Israel. Never mind that Israel effectively runs Gaza over the literally dead bodies of its population. Never mind that Israel uses God as an excuse to move into more and more Palestinian land...

As usual the culling goes on.

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted July 27, 2014 03:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dearest Jwhop

Thank you for standing up for the Jews and Israel. You are truly a Righteous Gentile and I honor and love you.

------------------
Want To Ask Any Question About Bible Prophecy? Go For it. It is Free, of course.


http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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PixieJane
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posted July 27, 2014 06:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Was anyone around during the worst of The Troubles? I can read about the history now, but I don't know how it was reported on, what the propaganda on either side was like and which propaganda was seen as preferable in other countries, etc.

I can see plenty of similarities here. OTOH, while rockets were used by both sides I don't recall the Irish resistance using them on London (though there were bombs) nor the UK using jets and artillery to blow up buildings (and whatever collateral damage got in the way) that had been rumored to hold such rebels an hour or so ago, either.

For those who were paying attention (as opposed to gleaning a little from some occasional mention in the news), how was it similar and how was it different?

Again, the historical facts can be found, what I'm primarily interested in is how was it REPORTED at the time? How like and how different from how the conflicts in Palestine being reported on today? And did reporters face threats or even violence by either side? (Btw, that includes threats to their jobs if they didn't report it a certain way, unexplained transfers, etc.)

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Catalina
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From: shamballa
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posted July 27, 2014 06:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Remember "The Great Escape" jwhop? Did you think they were RATS for digging tunnels and smuggling? Or did you cheer their pluck in the face of imprisonment?

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted July 28, 2014 08:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Gee, I don't recall the Irish position to kill all the British...wipe them off the earth. Anyone here remember that?

On the other hand, wiping Israel off the map of the world and killing all Jews IS THE OBJECTIVE OF HAMAS AND OTHER ISLAMIC TERRORISTS.

The Great Escape?

Fiction, just like most of what you assert.
I'm a little tired of the nonsense those tunnels were constructed to smuggle necessities..food, clothing, medical supplies etc.

Those tunnels were constructed to smuggle rockets, rifles and ammo into Gaza AND to smuggle terrorists into Israel to kill and/or kidnap Israeli citizens. Child slave labor helped build those tunnels. Children leftists pretend to care about...so long as they're not killed by Hamas or another Islamic terrorist group. Those children's deaths are A-OK with leftist hypocrites.

Hi Ami...thanks.

July 28, 2014
Children died building terror tunnels for Hamas
Carol Brown

Children have died at the hands of Hamas as they are used to help build terror tunnels, but the world’s media avert their eyes.

Breitbart reports on an article published two years ago that confirms that Hamas has been using children to help build terror tunnels. So far (through 2011) at least 160 children have died in the tunnels. It is reasonable to assume that in the past two years since the article was published many more have died.

Hamas killed hundreds of children in the construction of its extensive tunnel network, built partly to carry out attacks on children across the Gaza border in Israel. That report--confirmed by Hamas itself--emerged in 2012, not from the Israeli government, but the sympathetic Journal of Palestine Studies, in an article that otherwise celebrated the secret tunnel system as a symbol of Palestinian resistance to the Israeli "siege" of the Gaza Strip. (snip)

Hamas is not only using child labor, but likely child slavery, in building its terror tunnel network. While the world worries obsessively over the child casualties of Israeli attacks on Hamas targets in Gaza, it has ignored Hamas's deliberate killing of hundreds of Palestinian children, over the objections of the local populace.

The knowledge that Hamas used children to dig tunnels for smuggling and terror up to 25 meters below ground changes the moral calculation of the war significantly. Not only does Hamas show extreme indifference to the lives of Palestinian children by using them as human shields, placing rockets in UN schools and the like, but it actively destroys those lives by sending Palestinian children to die underground in 19th century conditions.

Those defending the Palestinian resistance to Israel--and, equally, those demanding a ceasefire that would leave the Hamas tunnel network in place--are effectively defending a slaveholding regime more odious in moral terms than any the world has seen since the child soldiers of Joseph Kony's brutal Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda, or the forced labor camps of the Nazis in the Second World War, who set children to work for the war effort.

There are no limits to the ways innocent lives are devalued and abused in the jihadist pursuit of the destruction of Israel, the Jewish people, and all infidels.
http://americanthinker.com/blog/2014/07/children_die_building_terror_tunnels_for_hamas.html

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Catalina
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From: shamballa
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posted July 28, 2014 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hamas are pigs jwhop. But the Israeli MP baying for extermination of all palestinians..."snakes"...is no better.

PJ no, the Troubles were different. Though there are parallels for sure. The British stance was that the IRA were merely thugs in martyrs clothing. The weapons were less sophisticated but civilians in England were targetted by car and (cast iron) letterbox bombs. Religion and occupation were the themes there too and many innocents were caught in the crossfire.

The ghetto situation did not exist there. People could and did leave.

But it took both sides saying "enough" and sitting down to negotiate to end it. To this day those old grudges remain but as in everyday life it isn't anger/hate that is the problem but justifying and acting them out.

Jwhop yes the film was fiction and there is much fiction on both sides of this conflict too. That includes your attempts to dispense with people's concern by equating it with wanting all jews dead. Nothing could be further from truth here, though the huge might of Israel against the puniness of the Palestinians is giving a convenient rationale to real jewhaters.

The history of the Pisces age and Abrahamic religions is one of justifying murder of those who hold to different worships. God is used as an excuse to annihilate others and grab their land...by both sides.

Many jews passed on the opportunity to be pawns in the "promised land". That makes them no less jewish. Reuven Moskovitz acts out of compassion and refusal to become what he once was subjected to.

If only wrong and right were so neatly divided. Why do you think Charon implemented the withdrawal? I suspect that like the Irish he realized violence would never end the conflict.

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Catalina
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From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted July 28, 2014 12:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The vid in the OP was of a jewish boy behaving naively and being treated as an agitator. I have seen worse treatment of innocent people by cops right here at home.

The immediate assumption was that I was trying to demonize Israel. What I am trying to "demonize" is war as a solution.

Palestine was first "created" as a territory "awarded" to the British after WWI. When colonies were considered legitimate by the powers who usurped the sovereignty of the less sophisticated natives. The creation of Israel parallels the story of Solomon and the two mothers only NO ONE refused to split the "baby".

Back here at home the systematic destruction of the original inhabitants is not that different in general trajectory. Foreigners annexed their land and set about eliminating them. To this day the likes of Ted Nugent feel justified in calling Natives "subhuman vermin" because they won't support his violent racist rhetoric. The battle between natives and the Armed Forces was also hugely unequal. The US govt paid bounty for scalps male female and child.

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Catalina
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From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted July 28, 2014 12:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is not about destroying Israel but about senseless hatred that will not admit the other side has a right to exist.

As to the Northern Irish they didnt want to eliminate England but they did want to eliminate her occupation of Irish soil. And the battle was carried to England too. We knew the possibility of being randomly blown up was there whether we sympathized with irish sentiment or not. Palestinian and Israeli citizens are in the same boat.Israelis are required to serve in the conflict whether they "believe" in it or not, and ditto palestinians.

I saw a story the other day about a good sized group of Israeli draftees who set down their arms in protest. If more people on both sides do this it might just end.

Or perhaps you think Ariel Charon wanted to "destroy Israel"?

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shura
Knowflake

Posts: 1019
From: kamaloka
Registered: Jun 2009

posted July 28, 2014 11:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jwhop, I'm sincerely disappointed by your position. An undeveloped or perverted moral conscience renders us unable to recognize the most blatant evils. Lacking the faculty of moral vision necessary to "see" evil we may then reason and rationalize away even the most extreme brutality and the deepest human suffering. The moral vision necessary to recognize right and wrong, irrespective of our personal attachments and prejudices regarding temporal attributes of race, religion, politics, and culture must be developed from within, and with the greatest humility. There are no political pundits in the next world to guide you or protect you; however, there is that which will deceive you. Prepare yourself.

"He who is blind in this world shall be blind in the Akhira (afterlife), in fact he will be more lost." Sura al Isra The Journey Into Night

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Catalina
Knowflake

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From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted July 29, 2014 12:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/casualtiestotal.html

Israeli and Palestinian casualties over 100 years
From the Jewish Virtual library
including the deaths of palestinians by palestinians

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shura
Knowflake

Posts: 1019
From: kamaloka
Registered: Jun 2009

posted July 29, 2014 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for shura     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://humanizepalestine.com/2014/07/29/in-memory-bashir-al-hajjar/
http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=CCtCmH0AAAAJ&hl=en

Dr. Bashir Ibrahim al-Hajjar was an Assistant Professor of Nursing at the Islamic University of Gaza. He was killed on July 29, 2014 when Israel targeted a UNRWA vehicle in northern Gaza. His brother Samir was also killed in the attack.

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jwhop
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Posts: 7426
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 31, 2014 11:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Indeed, cut the United Nations off from all US funding...and send them packing out of the United States.

After the demoscat controlled US Senate and the O'Bomber administration, the United Nations is the most bungling, incompetent and corrupt organization in the world.

I'm tired of hearing from all the Jew hating, terrorist loving O'Bomber Kool-Aid drinkers who...as usual have their heads where they don't belong.

How lucky for the terrorists of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the rest of the Palestinian terrorists that their fate isn't in my hands. There wouldn't be one of these terrorists still alive in Israel, the West Bank, Gaza or anywhere else within shooting distance of Israel.

The Israelis have a hell of a lot more patience than I do.

July 31, 2014
IDF Soldiers Killed in Booby-trapped UN Building
Karin McQuillan

Why are US taxpayers sending a quarter billion dollars a year to a United Nations agency that shows every sign of cooperating with Hamas to kill soldiers of our ally Israel? Israel National News reports:

The three IDF soldiers who were killed on Wednesday in Gaza, were killed when explosives detonated within a booby-trapped UN building in Khan Younis,Breitbart reports.

An elite IDF tunnel unit was in the process of uncovering an opening to a Hamas tunnel located at an UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency) health clinic when all of a sudden the explosives detonated, causing the entirety of the building to fall on top of the soldiers.

Neither the UN nor UNRWA have commented on the incident that resulted in the deaths of three Israeli soldiers, according to Breitbart.

This latest incident comes in the wake of the discovery of Hamas rockets in three UNWRA schools, only to have UNWRA give the rockets back to Hamas. The UN is demonstrating clear support for Hamas in many ways. For example, the UN immediately joined the propaganda war by blaming Israel for a strike on a Gaza hospital, which it was later reported was from misfired HAMAS rocket.

UNWRA and the UN also failed to comment on the loss of Israeli life at the booby-trapped, missile stock pile they allowed in their school.

UNRWA -- the UN Agency dedicated solely to helping Palestinian “refugees” -- has 30,000 employees; all but 200 are Palestinian. And we, the U.S. taxpayer, support them with almost a quarter of a billion dollars a year! We pay for food, education and housing, and all sorts of other services like personal loans, irrespective of financial need. We have perpetuated a welfare monster – an entire terrorist mini-state on the U.S. dole.

Since there are only 30,000 Palestinians alive today who were displaced by the Arab war against Israeli in 1948, that’s a one to one staff to refugee ratio. Of course, for the Palestinians there’s a special definition of being a refugee and qualifying for money -- no it’s not for life, it’s for the generations, and it makes no matter if you become the citizen of another country. (2 million Palestinian ‘refugees” became citizens of Jordan.) It doesn’t matter how much you earn, or if you own a mansion.

We are now supporting the fourth generation of Palestinians. They need only have one-eighth of a connection to Israel, that is, one great-grandparent who once worked in Israel (not lived there, worked there – and part time counts). They are still entitled to your money. The U.N. even defines Palestinians as refugees who always lived on the Arab side of the 1949 armistice line. There are supposedly 5 million Palestinians whom we owe.

In contrast, U.N. international staffing for all other refugee services in the world is less than 6,000 people – that’s for 126 countries such as Sudan, Somalia, Syria, and in Africa – where there are genuine refugees in need of emergency food and housing. The most staff any one country gets is 437. Yes, 437 compared to 29,800 for Palestinians. Other people only get to be called refugees until they are resettled somewhere.

Where are our fiscal hawks? Where is Ted Cruz’s golden tongue? Senator Rand Paul, this is a case for you. Here’s a beautiful example of international involvement we could do without.

The festering sore of the Palestinian grievance industry could not exist without American dollars. We pay for their schools and their housing. Gaza lives on American welfare. It is time to cut them off.
http://americanthinker.com/blog/2014/07/idf_soldiers_killed_in_boobytrapped_un_building.html

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Catalina
Knowflake

Posts: 2020
From: shamballa
Registered: Aug 2013

posted July 31, 2014 02:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Saw a clip yesterday about the evil hamas training children to use weapons.

Cut to the NRA lobbying to get marksmanship and gun use into school curricula "for their protection"
that would make a great propaganda clip in the right hands wouldn't it?

Thank you for being honest about your genocidal tendencies jwhop. Now I see why you think people who deplore the wholesale destruction of gaza and its population want to "destroy Israel and jews". Pure and simple projection.

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