posted August 18, 2014 09:47 AM            

The founders believe that all the social issues we have are as a result of scarcity. Scarcity being the foundation of the monetary system.

They believe if everyone's needs are met, there would be little reason for war, crime, politics, and no need for money at all.
http://www.thevenusproject.com/

posted August 19, 2014 08:02 PM            

I'm pessimistic in regards to human nature, both its tribal circuits in the brain with ego and the fact that might will make right (as in get away with doing what they want and writing the history, lesson programs, and the news to their preference) so unless a large majority of people can be converted to such thought then it won't happen as those who embrace war will conquer those who don't. Many realize our mode of living is dysfunctional at best, and quite possibly unsustainable in the long term, but there's a psychology at work that prefers the familiar to the novel and strange. Most don't want to learn new ways, and I don't see it as all that different to those raised with abuse who prefer abusive partners even though they hate the results.

On top of that the majority of people are selfish...not to be confused with malicious (I believe the truly malicious are as rare as the truly kind)...and such people aren't inclined to "do something for nothing," that is if they scratch your back then they want their own scratched in return. This isn't necessarily bad, it can be quite fair when gone about the right way, but it does beg the question of why a society would be run by volunteers. If money isn't the reason then what is? I can see alternatives (anything that aids survival, comfort, clout, etc) but those alternatives then come with similar problems as money, including competition.

And I agree with him on values, but those values are already in place and show in our ideology. Values determine WHAT gets done, ideology on HOW it gets done. When the Soviet took over Russia, for example, pollution and industrialization continued as the values remained the same, only HOW it was done (determined by ideology) changed. Even anarchist systems (from old Iceland to the Spanish Anarchists during the Spanish Civil War) reflected the values of the people (both the good and the bad) as much as any other ideology.

posted August 19, 2014 08:03 PM            

On a similar note, someone arranged for a nail at a gazebo at the park to stick out so it could cut or stick people (I fixed it) and I spent a day biking home picking up tacks someone left alone the bike path to flatten our tires (I collected over 20 by the time I got home). There are a lot of nasty people in the world and they have to be considered when thinking of creating something like a utopia. Even if our dysfunctional society breeds them there's still the question of whether the wound can heal before the rot is burned out of the body, which can be a disturbing thought to follow to the solution...and that those who would do "what must be done" to eradicate such nasty people are the last ones to set up a utopia.

And a nitpick is that there will always be weapons. They're simply too useful, such as knives. Even guns are necessary for the farms (at least the traditional ones). And as long as any weapon exist then the potential for abuse also exist. Even if the weapons were somehow completely removed by currently impossible means (and keep in mind that weapons, including projectile ones, are created even in Supermax prisons out of ordinary materials, and they don't have access to 3D printing of firearms) then there's the potential of the abuse by the strong of the weak. It really goes back to our world is one of might makes right (not that I'm saying it's right, but that they'll win, as one put it war doesn't determine who is right, only who is left, and the ones who are left make the society what it is).

posted August 19, 2014 08:04 PM            

Lots of other pioneering ideas in little ways have also been demonstrated as well. Just one example, the hempcar.

posted August 20, 2014 11:52 AM            

BUT that people would not make those changes till all other options were exhausted and the necessity made it attractive. So he made his designs so they would be available when people needed them.

posted August 21, 2014 08:43 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
That was refreshing.

I'm pessimistic in regards to human nature, both its tribal circuits in the brain with ego and the fact that might will make right (as in get away with doing what they want and writing the history, lesson programs, and the news to their preference) so unless a large majority of people can be converted to such thought then it won't happen as those who embrace war will conquer those who don't. Many realize our mode of living is dysfunctional at best, and quite possibly unsustainable in the long term, but there's a psychology at work that prefers the familiar to the novel and strange. Most don't want to learn new ways, and I don't see it as all that different to those raised with abuse who prefer abusive partners even though they hate the results.

On top of that the majority of people are selfish...not to be confused with malicious (I believe the truly malicious are as rare as the truly kind)...and such people aren't inclined to "do something for nothing," that is if they scratch your back then they want their own scratched in return. This isn't necessarily bad, it can be quite fair when gone about the right way, but it does beg the question of why a society would be run by volunteers. If money isn't the reason then what is? I can see alternatives (anything that aids survival, comfort, clout, etc) but those alternatives then come with similar problems as money, including competition.

And I agree with him on values, but those values are already in place and show in our ideology. Values determine WHAT gets done, ideology on HOW it gets done. When the Soviet took over Russia, for example, pollution and industrialization continued as the values remained the same, only HOW it was done (determined by ideology) changed. Even anarchist systems (from old Iceland to the Spanish Anarchists during the Spanish Civil War) reflected the values of the people (both the good and the bad) as much as any other ideology.

If this wasn't true then we'd have already revolutionized our society, but our species has already made its choice.

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I understand your concerns Pixiejane.
For this, or any change to roll out, it will need to be on a one-to-one basis.
Mass change here is not likely, I think.
However, if each individual started making small changes in their own perception of self and life, eventually, all will make a whole.
We may not see it in our lifetime, but everyone who starts in their own life now, can keep it rolling.

I think if an example community could be created in each country of the world, it would show in real-time how it could work to others.
Most people are understandably afraid to lose their "security" (as false as it may be), and so it may take small groups of those who are more afraid to be limited by false security, to create living examples.

Then there will be proof. Everyone deserves proof. With proof, there is no need to convert.

I fully intend to create a resource-based home in this life. It is my hope it will expand into a community. There are people already doing it in some parts of the UK.

posted August 21, 2014 08:44 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
Hi Voix, I`m on my old crap-a-tron right now and can`t look at the link but bumping so I won`t forget when I get old faithful back.

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posted August 21, 2014 08:46 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Catalina:
I was thinking of Bucky Fuller too PJ.
As he pointed out these kinds of changes may be necessary to our survival. ..but they can't be legislated; he believed a change in the design/technology we use could not only save but thrive us

BUT that people would not make those changes till all other options were exhausted and the necessity made it attractive. So he made his designs so they would be available when people needed them.

He also wrote about the origins of "power-over" and protection rackets quite humorously in the Grunch book...

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posted August 21, 2014 06:05 PM            

I used to have similar plans as you. I even thought of a way to make it profitable (not its primary purpose, that is I wasn't thinking of starting a business) as I knew that would be the only way it could have a chance at becoming mainstream. And as I looked into it I found there had already been at least two very similar to what I had in mind and not even I who was interested had heard of it before.

Speaking of which, you might find something similar to what you have in mind here, and you may want to register your intentional community with them later:
http://www.ic.org/