posted September 17, 2016 03:01 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
You are describing yourself! You defend every corrupt thing the Clintons do! Hillary's top aide said Obama wasn't born here and asked it to be investigated! Wake up!

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posted September 17, 2016 03:01 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
Nope, not a god. Trump is an outsider not owned by special interests. Hillary is only going to represent her Wall Street contributors. Trump is the voice of the people. He won't do it alone. Many people will assist.

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Spoken like a true follower.

posted September 17, 2016 03:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
You're the one who made a claim. I shouldn't have to make a deal to call you out on it.

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I called you out, and you acted predictably. It's not my fault you can't have a debate here without insulting someone or deflecting from the truth.

Why should Democrats have to abide by a promise that Republicans can't meet? This a theme not just on this forum, but in politics. It's really weird that Republicans expect more of their opponents when they can't be counted upon to keep the same promise. Hypocritical, really.

posted September 17, 2016 03:32 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Bluejay:
jwop, I suggest that you educate yourself and learn the facts. It looks like all you did was go to wikipedia and saw that the mayor was a Democrat, and immediately jumped to conclusions about accountability.

The Flint Water Advisory Task Force Final Report, which was commissioned by Gov Snyder, concluded that the state was responsible for what happened. Several state employees have been charged with criminal offenses due to their role.

This is just the summary statement of the report, but I have read through the sections that discuss the various levels of government and what role they played. I suggest you do the same, because you are grossly misinformed and ignorant of the facts.

[b]"The Flint water crisis is a story of government failure, intransigence, unpreparedness, delay,
inaction, and environmental injustice. The Michigan Department of Environmental Quality
(MDEQ) failed in its fundamental responsibility to effectively enforce drinking water regulations.
The Michigan Department of Health and Human Services (MDHHS) failed to adequately and
promptly act to protect public health. Both agencies, but principally the MDEQ, stubbornly
worked to discredit and dismiss others’ attempts to bring the issues of unsafe water, lead
contamination, and increased cases of Legionellosis (Legionnaires’ disease) to light. With the City
of Flint under emergency management, the Flint Water Department rushed unprepared into fulltime
operation of the Flint Water Treatment Plant, drawing water from a highly corrosive source
without the use of corrosion control. Though MDEQ was delegated primacy (authority to enforce
federal law), the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) delayed enforcement of
the Safe Drinking Water Act (SDWA) and Lead and Copper Rule (LCR), thereby prolonging the
calamity. Neither the Governor nor the Governor’s office took steps to reverse poor decisions by
MDEQ and state-appointed emergency managers until October 2015, in spite of mounting
problems and suggestions to do so by senior staff members in the Governor’s office, in part
because of continued reassurances from MDEQ that the water was safe. The significant
consequences of these failures for Flint will be long-lasting. They have deeply affected Flint’s
public health, its economic future, and residents’ trust in government.

The Flint water crisis occurred when state-appointed emergency managers replaced local
representative decision-making in Flint, removing the checks and balances and public
accountability that come with public decision-making. Emergency managers made key decisions
that contributed to the crisis, from the use of the Flint River to delays in reconnecting to DWSD
once water quality problems were encountered. Given the demographics of Flint, the
implications for environmental injustice cannot be ignored or dismissed.

The Flint water crisis is also a story, however, of something that did work: the critical role played
by engaged Flint citizens, by individuals both inside and outside of government who had the
expertise and willingness to question and challenge government leadership, and by members of a
free press who used the tools that enable investigative journalism. Without their courage and
persistence, this crisis likely never would have been brought to light and mitigation efforts never
begun."

The full report can be found here...
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/snyder/FWATF_FINAL_REPORT_21March2016_517805_7.pdf

[/B]

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posted September 17, 2016 03:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by jwhop:
Those Hillary Birther reports are good stuff Randall.

Here's more. Btw, anyone who doesn't know who Sidney Blumenthal is should go look it up. His nickname is Sid Vicious and he's worked for the Clintons all the way back to the Clinton White House days.

David Goldstein
WASHINGTON

[b]Two supporters of Hillary Clinton’s 2008 presidential campaign reportedly shared the claim that then-rival Barack Obama was not born in the United States and thus was not eligible to be president.

One was a volunteer in Iowa, who was fired, Clinton’s former campaign manager said Friday. The other was Clinton confidant Sidney Blumenthal, according to a former McClatchy Washington Bureau chief.

The issue arose Friday as Donald Trump finally acknowledged that Obama was born in the U.S. Trump, a leading champion of the debunked “birther” conspiracy theory for years, attempted to blame Clinton for starting it when she ran against Obama in 2008 for the Democratic presidential nomination.

Donald Trump said that President Obama was born in the United States during an event at Trump International Hotel in Washington, D.C. on September 16, 2016. He also claimed that the birther issue was started by Hillary Clinton's campaign when she ran for president in 2008.
CSPAN

In fact, there were several people publicly pushing the theory, which was repeated extensively on conservative news outlets. There were the two Clinton supporters, but there is no evidence that Clinton herself or her campaign spread the story. (Sorry but Sid Vicious worked for Hillary)

Patti Solis Doyle, Clinton’s campaign manager during part of the 2008 race, told CNN on Friday that an Iowa campaign worker had passed on an email about the birther conspiracy and that Clinton quickly fired him.

Solis Doyle said she’d called Obama campaign official David Plouffe at the time “to apologize and basically say that this was not coming from us. It was a rogue volunteer coordinator.”

Meanwhile, former McClatchy Washington Bureau Chief James Asher tweeted Friday that Blumenthal had “told me in person” that Obama was born in Kenya.

“During the 2008 Democratic primary, Sid Blumenthal visited the Washington Bureau of McClatchy Co.,” Asher said in an email Friday to McClatchy, noting that he was at the time the investigative editor and in charge of Africa coverage.

“During that meeting, Mr. Blumenthal and I met together in my office and he strongly urged me to investigate the exact place of President Obama’s birth, which he suggested was in Kenya. We assigned a reporter to go to Kenya, and that reporter determined that the allegation was false.

“At the time of Mr. Blumenthal’s conversation with me, there had been a few news articles published in various outlets reporting on rumors about Obama’s birthplace. While Mr. Blumenthal offered no concrete proof of Obama’s Kenyan birth, I felt that, as journalists, we had a responsibility to determine whether or not those rumors were true. They were not.”

The Trump campaign issued a news release with a portion of Solis Doyle’s interview and a link to memos back then to Clinton from Mark Penn, her 2008 pollster. One raises the issue of Obama’s “lack of American roots.” Obama was born in Hawaii. His father was Kenyan and his mother was from Kansas.

Penn’s memo said, “Every speech should contain the line that you were born in the middle of America in the middle class in the middle of the last century.”
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/election/article102354777.html [/B]

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Donald Trump is the one that has been spewing this **** for over 5 years. There are literally hundreds of examples of him promoting the birther theory. Please give ONE FACTUAL example of Hillary herself spreading this ridiculous conspiracy theory before accusing her.

posted September 17, 2016 05:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
You mean the lie you continue to spread about Trump being an ableist?

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Oh no, that's true.

You're getting facts and lies mixed up again.

posted September 17, 2016 06:46 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
Opinion vs Fact

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You should really learn the difference, Randall.

posted September 17, 2016 07:26 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
The facts are staring you right in the face. But it will never change your opinion.

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posted September 17, 2016 08:01 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
And you call me a conspiracy theorist? Some Democrats do make an art of accusing others of what they themselves actively engage in. Speaking generally.

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posted September 17, 2016 09:51 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
We never said Trump didn't. Jwhop already posted the info about her top aide saying it.

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Wait. Top aide ?

quote:

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One was a volunteer in Iowa, who was fired, Clinton’s former campaign manager said Friday. The other was Clinton confidant Sidney Blumenthal, according to a former McClatchy Washington Bureau chief.

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Where does jwhop have proof of a "top aide" saying Obama was not born in U.S.?

posted September 17, 2016 10:39 AM            

Not the same at all but you know that.

NO one in her campaign ever spoke out on the birther issue. IF you ever find a campaign worker, not a volunteer or confidant, a campaign worker who did, I will relent the issue.

Until then, all the word marryings and illusions are bogus.