posted December 06, 2016 04:18 PM            

The fact that Enneline keeps her optimism and energy intact when faced with the disgusting filth directed at her by little whopper (with Randall's permission) is amazing.

posted December 07, 2016 12:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Astro keen:
I second that Mirage.

The fact that Enneline keeps her optimism and energy intact when faced with the disgusting filth directed at her by little whopper (with Randall's permission) is amazing.

I couldn't bear to be in the same space but follow the example set by people like Enneline, Teasel and Leeloo. They are like lotus flowers which shine and stay unsullied despite being surrounded by dirty waters.

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quote:

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Originally posted by mirage29:
{{{{{{ ... }}}}}}} Enneline... {{ }}

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posted December 07, 2016 12:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
A right to seek is not an unqualified right. They may seek asylum. There is no compulsion to grant it.

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yes, of course, i never claimed the opposite.

However, everyone has the right to be heared and to apply and every single request has to be surveyd diligently. That is what a civilized nation that respects the human rights should do.

Sure, nowadays facing the huge numbers it has become nearly impossible to do the Article 14 of the universal declaration of human rights any justice.

Of course not anyone can go to another country and request asylum for no reason.

I do know that i can't go to the U.S. and seek for Asylum for no reason

posted December 07, 2016 01:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
And what do you think of the Burka ban?

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i am ambivalent, even though i am really more inclined to speak out against the Burka ban.

Let me explain why:

I personally "HATE" the Burka (as far as one can hate a piece of clothing ), i even dislike headscarfs (however, i grew up on the German countryside, 100% Christian, mainly Catholic and when i was growing up many older women used to wear headscarfs to protect their heads against coldness).
I don't "hate" Burkas and headscarfs because of the Islam - i do respect and accept any religion under the sun - but because i am of the opinion that Burkas, headscarfs and Hijabs were created by the Middle Eastern patriarchy to oppress women, not by prophet Muhammad.

In my opinion the Qu'ran does NOT instruct to cover up like that. There is the recommendation that a woman shall cover her bosom- at a time where women walked around half naked. But nowadays no woman walkes around with a naked bosom, even though you men might like that
Also, it was recommended (not mandatory) to dress modestly, to not provocate men- this doesn't mean that we can't see the face of a woman. Also, many "instructions" have been translated inaccurately (btw, there are 2 different versions of the Qur'an: a persian and an arab version)
+ if you live in the desert with no running water, as they lived 1500 years ago, you look like a dirty pig after a couple of days at the latest. So it was also a recommendation due to hygiene.
But we all know that this is the year 2016 and we have running water, at least in Western countries.
Also, there is at least 1 surah (i think it was a surah, let me double check) in the Qur'an that says that a Muslim has to accept the cultures and traditions of the country he lives in, even if it's not a Muslim country.

Facing my respect and acceptance for other religions incl. the Islam i do NOT want any Muslima to feel uncomfortable, let out disrespected due to her beliefs. Every free and civilized country shall respect all religions and beliefs . Therefore we shouldn't ban a religious tradition, even though i am of the opinion that this is not a religious tradition but an old lie of the patriarchy.

Also, i think the Burka is "harder" than a hijab or a headscarf. I can't see a face when seeing a Burka, but i can see anything but the hair when seeing a hijab or a headscarf. It would also be awkard, for me at least, to talk to a person in a Burka when going to any public administration office or going to school and talking to a teacher in a Burka....
For the security reasons, many people are afraid that terrorists could hide weapons or bombs under the Burka, well, yes a woman in a Burka has to pass any security control like any other woman has to pass.

However, and this is my main concern: what are we really talking about? This all sounds like Propaganda, like populism. People behave like 90% of all Muslimas wear Burkas. I live in a very multicultural German city, many Muslims and also many Jews live here and i like never see a Burka As far as i remember i encountered Burkas only 2 times in 15 years in a city with a huge Muslim minority.
Also, the headscarf topic: Many Muslimas here don't wear headscarfs at all. From the top of my head i can't recall one single Turkish girl I know that wears a headscarf . The older generation of Muslimas often do it, but the younger show their hair. But this is a very "open-minded" city; perhaps in other German cities it is different.
So, it's like talking about 0,2%

Also, the reality has proven that a Burka ban doesn't help a bit: they did it in France and it didn't "help" at all. The French police says that it's a never ending circle of warnings and penalties, they would stop a Burka wearing woman just to see the woman they punished/warned 2 days ago again in a Burka. So it has proven to be useless so far.

+ the god-damned Islamists and Extremists would use the Burka ban to race against us Westerns for our alleged hatred and intolerance against the Islam. That has already happened and we shouldn't "feed" the enemy. This is my main concern btw.

So, all in all: NO to a Burka ban in general but yes to a Burka ban if you have a "public" position like a public administration officer and a teacher- but again: how many Muslimas are teachers and wanted to wear Burkas? It's not very likely, it's like talking about a mandatory lightning protection of houses because 0,2% of all houses were once hit by a lightning

I am afraid that a Burka ban would widen the drift between the Muslim minority and us, it would "feed" the Islamist enemies, would make Muslims feel unwelcomed, etc. And yes, i am stating this, even though i personally "hate" Burkas and dislike headscarfs and Hijabs.

P.S. i can't take Merkel seriously; she only states this because she doesn't want to loose any voters.

posted December 10, 2016 03:54 AM            

What you call Americans are the descendants of immigrants who came here to do just what you protest. To enlighten the heathen "savages", spread their brand of Christian religion, and murder the inhabitants in their millions because they weren't grateful enough for being Civilized.

posted December 10, 2016 09:36 AM            

There's nothing wrong with your Marxist Socialist faux history book that a cup of gasoline and a match wouldn't cure.

posted December 11, 2016 05:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Enneline:
i am ambivalent, even though i am really more inclined to speak out against the Burka ban.

Let me explain why:

I personally "HATE" the Burka (as far as one can hate a piece of clothing ), i even dislike headscarfs (however, i grew up on the German countryside, 100% Christian, mainly Catholic and when i was growing up many older women used to wear headscarfs to protect their heads against coldness).
I don't "hate" Burkas and headscarfs because of the Islam - [b] i do respect and accept any religion under the sun - but because i am of the opinion that Burkas, headscarfs and Hijabs were created by the Middle Eastern patriarchy to oppress women, not by prophet Muhammad.

In my opinion the Qu'ran does NOT instruct to cover up like that. There is the recommendation that a woman shall cover her bosom- at a time where women walked around half naked. But nowadays no woman walkes around with a naked bosom, even though you men might like that
Also, it was recommended (not mandatory) to dress modestly, to not provocate men- this doesn't mean that we can't see the face of a woman. Also, many "instructions" have been translated inaccurately (btw, there are 2 different versions of the Qur'an: a persian and an arab version)
+ if you live in the desert with no running water, as they lived 1500 years ago, you look like a dirty pig after a couple of days at the latest. So it was also a recommendation due to hygiene.
But we all know that this is the year 2016 and we have running water, at least in Western countries.
Also, there is at least 1 surah (i think it was a surah, let me double check) in the Qur'an that says that a Muslim has to accept the cultures and traditions of the country he lives in, even if it's not a Muslim country.

Facing my respect and acceptance for other religions incl. the Islam i do NOT want any Muslima to feel uncomfortable, let out disrespected due to her beliefs. Every free and civilized country shall respect all religions and beliefs . Therefore we shouldn't ban a religious tradition, even though i am of the opinion that this is not a religious tradition but an old lie of the patriarchy.

Also, i think the Burka is "harder" than a hijab or a headscarf. I can't see a face when seeing a Burka, but i can see anything but the hair when seeing a hijab or a headscarf. It would also be awkard, for me at least, to talk to a person in a Burka when going to any public administration office or going to school and talking to a teacher in a Burka....
For the security reasons, many people are afraid that terrorists could hide weapons or bombs under the Burka, well, yes a woman in a Burka has to pass any security control like any other woman has to pass.

However, and this is my main concern: what are we really talking about? This all sounds like Propaganda, like populism. People behave like 90% of all Muslimas wear Burkas. I live in a very multicultural German city, many Muslims and also many Jews live here and i like never see a Burka As far as i remember i encountered Burkas only 2 times in 15 years in a city with a huge Muslim minority.
Also, the headscarf topic: Many Muslimas here don't wear headscarfs at all. From the top of my head i can't recall one single Turkish girl I know that wears a headscarf . The older generation of Muslimas often do it, but the younger show their hair. But this is a very "open-minded" city; perhaps in other German cities it is different.
So, it's like talking about 0,2%

Also, the reality has proven that a Burka ban doesn't help a bit: they did it in France and it didn't "help" at all. The French police says that it's a never ending circle of warnings and penalties, they would stop a Burka wearing woman just to see the woman they punished/warned 2 days ago again in a Burka. So it has proven to be useless so far.

+ the god-damned Islamists and Extremists would use the Burka ban to race against us Westerns for our alleged hatred and intolerance against the Islam. That has already happened and we shouldn't "feed" the enemy. This is my main concern btw.

So, all in all: NO to a Burka ban in general but yes to a Burka ban if you have a "public" position like a public administration officer and a teacher- but again: how many Muslimas are teachers and wanted to wear Burkas? It's not very likely, it's like talking about a mandatory lightning protection of houses because 0,2% of all houses were once hit by a lightning

I am afraid that a Burka ban would widen the drift between the Muslim minority and us, it would "feed" the Islamist enemies, would make Muslims feel unwelcomed, etc. And yes, i am stating this, even though i personally "hate" Burkas and dislike headscarfs and Hijabs.

P.S. i can't take Merkel seriously; she only states this because she doesn't want to loose any voters.

[/B]

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posted December 12, 2016 01:26 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Tulipe:
Very well said Enneline, I agree with all your points. Personally I'm against the burka as it to me is a way to oppress and reduce women to a sex thing that needs to be covered up. But I don't think burkas banning is the solution. I'd want to have a root solution, not a temporary one when the situation gets out of hand. At the moment I can only think of education, meetings, discussions as the ways to go, but they will take a very long time to achieve.

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I do agree with you.

Only long term solutions that will justify the needs of all parties (of course there will always be someone left who will protest just for principle) should be the goal

posted December 12, 2016 05:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
You've watched too many cowboy movies. The Native Americans slaughtered each other.

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posted December 12, 2016 07:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
I saw it in a documentary.

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posted December 12, 2016 08:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
It exposed other historical myths also, such as the Blacks who owned slaves.

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