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Author Topic:   Psychology of power figures
LeeLoo2014
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posted January 18, 2017 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Juni

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LeeLoo2014
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posted January 25, 2017 07:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@ Faith

Some examples of how myths are construed and exploited politically, and how mythical thinking is tooled by totalitarian regimes
http://archive.org/stream/democracydictato00barb#page/142/mode/2up/search/mythical+thinking


An overall good book on democratic mind vs totalitarian mind
http://www.questia.com/library/journal/1P3-3896373351/zevedei-barbu-an-exercise-in-intellectual-biography


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Delilah423
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posted January 25, 2017 06:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delilah423     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LeeLoo,

In case you haven't seen this article:

https://georgelakoff.com/2016/07/23/understanding-trump-2/

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LeeLoo2014
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posted January 27, 2017 07:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delilah423:
LeeLoo,

In case you haven't seen this article:

https://georgelakoff.com/2016/07/23/understanding-trump-2/



Touché. Great analysis, Delilah, everyone should read it. I didn't read it, so thank you Patriarchy in its decadent phase. Rococo. That was a concise description of the authoritarian patriarchal mindset facing extinction.

Part of it is also about how political myths are being construed for the public by totalitarian figures and regimes, capitalizing on an already existing trend in mass-media to create such myths for easy buttons in the public mind (confiscating it) and also on the rightful criticism that mass media is biased. Such a myth in this case (pretty classic though) will be "FAKE NEWS" (coupled with arresting and felony charging journalists as intimidation, which already happened) and also "ILLEGALS" or "MUSLIMS" as the necessary "Jew" in the equation.

Some part of the constant speech, such as knowing to mention "the FORGOTTEN" over and over again shows strategy behind the scenes of another mind (most likely Kushner), the overall message is constantly targeting this part of the population and ignoring the rest, since upfront division is part of the main strategy here.

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LeeLoo2014
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posted January 27, 2017 07:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-pressured-park-service-to-back-up-his-claims-about-inauguration-crowd/2017/01/26/12a38cb8-e3fc-11e6-ba11-63c4b4fb5a63_story.html?utm_te rm=.3f6047acc16a

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LeeLoo2014
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posted January 27, 2017 07:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I didn't verify the whole story here, which I usually try to do, but this provides a good description of the condition, the interaction with the entourage and how it evolves:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-greene/is-donald-trump-mentally_b_13693174.html

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LeeLoo2014
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posted January 28, 2017 01:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Delilah, I understand now what you meant by those apparently fundamental differences and what appears as "being wired differently". In the light of the article, this is an extreme case of direct causation vs systemic causation, with direct causation being the now official power of US. (only an apparent power though, imo)

General remarks
- direct causation has been in power in different times and places over the world and always failed
- while there has never been an upfront and total dc regime in the US so far, all dc approaches in the US in the past also failed

Two examples of direct causation here:


The Wall

Direct causation thinking: In order to keep immigrants to enter the country, you build a big tall wall (similar to locking your door at night, often presented as argument). If they don't comply, you apply economic and other sanctions to the poorer neighbor, which intends to make them poorer, insults them and bullies them into complying. Problem solved.

Systemic causation of building a wall:
- walls don't stop people who want to cross over (based on general logic and experience); bigger wall, bigger ladder, tunnel, or escape route; wall is useless for its purpose.

-poorer Mexico means more potential immigrants crossing in the US (the interest of the US is a prosperous neighbor, and this also implies sharing and trading wealth)

- wall is an act of discriminative racism, as racism is understood nowadays, as any attempt to discriminate in any way a national, cultural, ethnic or religious group, with multiple and extended consequences. Racism never spares anyone, it comes back to the source in all its forms. (direct causation usually fails to see this)

- all Mexicans in the US (33 million people), Mexico and abroad are now in pain and anger of the above (empathy notwithstanding, systemic causation sees here the multiple consequences of this fact) and fear for their future.

-poorer and angrier Mexico means poorer and angrier US

- facing sanctions from the US (wall, economic sanctions, etc.), Mexico can take several routes: 1. comply and or be coerced to pay for the wall, accept sanctions - poorer and angrier Mexico, poorer angrier US 2. impose their own sanctions, seek other trade partners, leading to poorer, angrier, isolated US. Basic knowledge and understanding of human dignity, the consequences of insults and Mexican national psychology makes indirect causation bet on number 2. Even otherwise, both routes are detrimental to the US.

-economic incentives (under the forms of loans, exemptions, postponement of debt, investments) an economic power gives to its developing neighbors or partners are in the first interest of the said power, not an act of philanthropy (basic political knowledge)

- wall turns a neighbor into an enemy

To this we add: first proposal for paying the wall (20% tax on Mexican imports) is an attempted scam or shows complete lack of basic economical knowledge, since it implies US citizens will pay for the wall twice: first when it is built, and then when incurring the 20% import tax by buying more expensive products from Mexico, which also leads to US job losses.

Muslim Ban

Direct causation thinking: In order to prevent terrorism (with Islam as pretext) on American soil, you ban Muslims from entering the country (same closed door argument). Problem solved.

Systemic causation:

- contemporary Islam based terrorism, that caused victims not only in the US, is a direct consequence of US military imperialist foreign policy, along with other imperialist actors. It is a creation of such policies. Conclusion: military imperialistic policies create terrorism. Logic says only a different approach will reverse it.

- a Muslim ban of any kind is a defying act of discriminative racism, as racism is understood nowadays, as any attempt to discriminate in any way a national, cultural, ethnic or religious group, with multiple and extended consequences. Racism never spares anyone, it comes back to the source in all its forms. (direct causation usually fails to see this)

- due to this act, a potential number of 1.6 billion, out of which 3 million American Muslims are now in pain, anger and fear for their safety and future.

- main recruitment slogan and policy of this type of terrorist factions and one of their main brainwashing mantras leading to killers blowing themselves up is the "West has declared a war on Muslims" (also known as persecuting Muslims in any way), especially when it comes from Christians (the "legendary" Christian Muslim war). Conclusion: banning Muslims + mentioning the word Christian is the wet dream of these terrorist factions. No more brainwashing now, but reality. An unexpected gift.

- terrorist organizations prey on fear, anger, poverty, gullibility, youth of their followers

- Which leads to ISIS and other factions being now fervently open for business, both in the US and worldwide. Out of those 1.6 billion people, much more than yesterday will be inclined to follow this route (in fact, ISIS was almost destroyed until yesterday)

- all 3 millions American Muslims, and the rest of the almost 2 billion, who would never choose the terrorist path, for their overwhelming majority, are now in pain, anger and fear (empathy notwithstanding, systemic causation sees here the multiple consequences of this fact)

- persecution of a religious group is unacceptable by global contemporary standards and laws, also illegal and unconstitutional in the US, so it will be met with crushing justified opposition

- the US is a country of immigrants and refugees and its democratic values and economy are built around this reality, including the Constitution. Any attack on these values is a challenge to current American democracy. Discrimination of a group of Americans (Muslims immigrants, Mexican immigrants) is just the beginning of potential attack on every immigrant group (which means practically almost all Americans) or any other group (religious, ethnic, cultural) and has a snowballing effect.


- the right to migrate and seek refuge is a fundamental human right, also regulated; more crushing justified opposition here; Migration is essential to the survival of our species, neither can it be stopped (the instinctive mechanisms prevail), nor it should be. It can only be supported, regulated and integrated, in peaceful ways.

- apart from a minority, the US and the world are committed to current democratic values, freedom and human rights. Conclusion: any attack on those will fail.

Conclusion: direct causation in contemporary contexts is unrealistic and destructive and it leads to the opposite intended result.

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Randall
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posted January 28, 2017 02:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's not a Muslim ban. It doesn't apply to the three largest Muslim countries. It doesn't mention Islam at all. Obama did the same kind of temporary ban on Iraq, and the language was very similar, but where was the outrage from the left then? We have seen Europe bombarded with terrorism from immigration, and it's the job of the POTUS to protect America from the same. It is not a ban on religion. And it's not just Mexicans that cross over the border. Illegal immigrants from several countries cross that border. It has nothing to do with race.

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LeeLoo2014
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posted January 28, 2017 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-chaos-idUSKBN15C0LD

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peony
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posted January 29, 2017 03:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for peony     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Donald Trump being the focus now, I will start with this article today, about his non-verbal message
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/15/the-seven-faces-of-donald-tr ump-a-psychologists-view


quote:
A great deal of Donald Trump’s political success can be put down to his body language and the unusual ways he uses his face.

This is shallow make believe that lacks any historical context. Another example that the corporate media does not know and does not understand why Trump is president of the United States.

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LeeLoo2014
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posted January 29, 2017 07:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by peony:
This is shallow make believe that lacks any historical context. Another example that the corporate media does not know and does not understand why Trump is president of the United States.


His personality, including his body language, stands for a great deal of why those who voted for him did so, and how they interpreted this body language, though. And viceversa. I chose this article because it correctly interprets the said body language, and this has nothing to do with any media. Besides, I am a little disconcerted by people falling to the propaganda he started about media representing Trump incorrectly. Everyone has eyes and ears to see and hear what he says and does, you don't even need a big part of the brain to hear and see and to interpret his personality correctly. I don't need no media to interpret for me what I see. I don't have any political partisanship in the US to misguide me. I use media in English language from around the world (US, UK. Australia, international), French and Romanian, starting with the prestigious newspapers, and including everything else, and I can tell you 95% of mass media and public opinion globally share the same view about Trump. In fact, I do recommend this method to evaluate a topic, rather than watching TV (which I don't, btw, except for some specific events).

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LeeLoo2014
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posted January 30, 2017 06:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LeeLoo2014     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First victims are in Canada, after the mosque in Texas having been burnt just hours after the Muslim ban order
http://www.yahoo.com/news/quebec-city-police-theres-shooting-mosque-025238309.html

Trumpism becomes a term:

"The Citizen Therapists’ manifesto believes Trump’s egotistical ways are creating “the illusion that real Americans can only become winners if others become losers.”
http://citizentherapists.com/manifesto/
ht tp://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/donald-trump-mental-illness-narcisissm-us-president-psychologists-inauguration-crowd-size-paranoia-a7552661.html

In the meantime...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4168308/Ivanka-Trump-criticized- posting-glamorous-picture.html


One major concern here is how the "Forgotten", already vulnerable, will eventually become the most vulnerable victims in the situation


"The public rhetoric of Trumpism normalizes what therapists work against in our work: the tendency to blame others in our lives for our personal fears and insecurities and then battle these others instead of taking the healthier but more difficult path of self-awareness and self-responsibility. It also normalizes a kind of hyper-masculinity that is antithetical to the examined life and healthy relationships that psychotherapy helps people achieve. Simply stated, Trumpism is inconsistent with emotionally healthy living—and we have to say so publicly."

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Randall
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posted January 30, 2017 07:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You can't blame Trump for the actions of some nutjobs (who yelled out the name of the ISIS leader) any more than we can personally blame Obama for the Paris attacks, for example, due to his policies. And the left calling it a Muslim ban is disgustingly disingenuous.

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iQ
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posted January 30, 2017 11:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Though this is not a "Muslim Ban", right wing Neo-Fascist groups like "Hindu Republicans" in the USA are celebrating it as if it were. Hindu Republicans fund the RSS and VHP in India, and these two organizations carry out genocide of Muslims in India. The VHP actually destroyed a mosque on live TV in 1992, and then killed 3000 Muslims who peacefully protested the destruction of the Mosque.

It would thus be graceful of Trump to clarify in a manner befitting a President the context of this ban, and implement it gracefully without allowing any unnecessary loophole to hurt valid Visa Holders or pre-vetted Visa Holders.
It is necessary to not make the citizens of the 7 countries feel like enemies, when none of them have hurt even a hair of an American on American Soil. 10000 Iraqis directly helped the US Army, putting their lives and their families lives at risk.

USA does not need further chaos and anarchy. Dark Forces are just two or three false flag events (Mass shooting attack on African Americans? Burning down a Church and blaming on Arabs or Pakistanis? ] away from creating what is called a "Fire Sale", and even those like Steve Bannon could be playing into the hands of Russian Sleepers who have been dreaming of this opportunity since Ronald Reagan decisively won the Cold War.

Why not an Executive Order that makes Income Taxes ZERO for all families that make under $120,000 a year? That is the kind of step that would stimulate the economy, make the middle class spend more, create stability and so on.

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Randall
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posted January 30, 2017 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Congress has to pass tax laws. But i'd be all for the complete abolition of the IRS altogether.

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Delilah423
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posted January 30, 2017 12:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delilah423     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
You can't blame Trump for the actions of some nutjobs (who yelled out the name of the ISIS leader) any more than we can personally blame Obama for the Paris attacks, for example, due to his policies. And the left calling it a Muslim ban is disgustingly disingenuous.

I agree this isn't technically a Muslim ban (yet), but why would that be the only campaign promise he's decided not to implement?

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Randall
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posted January 30, 2017 12:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good to see you acknowledge that this isn't a religious ban, unlike the lying left with their #muslimban hysteria. He quickly backtracked on that statement, as well as the deportation of all illegal immigrants (changing it to criminals only), so those were not campaign promises.

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Enneline
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posted January 30, 2017 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Enneline     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ok, poor Leeloo has tried to explain the concerns. The 2 of us are no leftists (esp. Leeloo and you know that and you know the reason why she can't be left )
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/giuliani-muslim-ban_us_588e25fce4b0b065cbbca59f

But i am sure you gonna tell me that Giuliani is nothing but a pathetic liar

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