posted May 03, 2022 05:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chanterelle:
You’re right, it’s slightly beside the point, but imo relevant to the larger issue of whether law can ever function as an adequate substitute for morality, and who is presumed to be competent to make potentially life-altering medical decisions.

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that's a big topic

I don't believe the law can function so. Not well, and not for long. Our Constitution, as Adams said, was designed for a moral people. It simply doesn't function otherwise. We are squarely in the "otherwise" territory. So what to do?

Casual abortion and the potentially draconian laws designed to prevent them are both imo downstream of massive cultural changes of the past 50 yrs, give or take.

I don't know if its on this thread or not, but I earlier pointed out that the center, the so called silent majority, was generally pro choice up until quite recently. Popular opinion is slowly shifting as abortion habits are shifting. ie a societal bargain was struck - women could have abortions provided they were quiet about it, had them early in the pregnancy, and kept them to a minimum. Someone broke that bargain and it wasn't the anti choice crowd.

Had the Progressives simply held ground we wouldn't be having this discussion.

In the 80s/90s the center pushed back on Evangelical nutjobs and Planned Parenthood bombers. As well they should have! But today we are watching the new nutjob extremists, the far Left, demand 9th month, no cost abortions of "a clump of cells."

When women hop on tik tok to gloat over their 5th abortion, when they throw themselves post abortion parties, an equally strong response is probably inevitable. But what if it isn't? What if that response fails? What is the endgame? Are you ok with that scenario? because that scenario is real and much, much darker than any Handmaid's Tale history has yet envisioned.
"Carthago delenda est"

posted May 03, 2022 05:17 PM            

quote:

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I don’t think anyone in their right mind would ever promote aborting healthy babies when they have reached a certain maturity.

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posted May 04, 2022 10:16 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by shura:

that's a big topic

I don't believe the law can function so. Not well, and not for long. Our Constitution, as Adams said, was designed for a moral people. It simply doesn't function otherwise. We are squarely in the "otherwise" territory. So what to do?

Casual abortion and the potentially draconian laws designed to prevent them are both imo downstream of massive cultural changes of the past 50 yrs, give or take.

I don't know if its on this thread or not, but I earlier pointed out that the center, the so called silent majority, was generally pro choice up until quite recently. Popular opinion is slowly shifting as abortion habits are shifting. ie a societal bargain was struck - women could have abortions provided they were quiet about it, had them early in the pregnancy, and kept them to a minimum. Someone broke that bargain and it wasn't the anti choice crowd.

Had the Progressives simply held ground we wouldn't be having this discussion.

In the 80s/90s the center pushed back on Evangelical nutjobs and Planned Parenthood bombers. As well they should have! But today we are watching the new nutjob extremists, the far Left, demand 9th month, no cost abortions of "a clump of cells."

When women hop on tik tok to gloat over their 5th abortion, when they throw themselves post abortion parties, an equally strong response is probably inevitable. But what if it isn't? What if that response fails? What is the endgame? Are you ok with that scenario? because that scenario is real and much, much darker than any Handmaid's Tale history has yet envisioned.
"Carthago delenda est"

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posted May 04, 2022 04:26 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chanterelle:
First 2 paragraphs: I agree. Last paragraph— “what’s the endgame?”— idk, you tell me. Modern Western medicine is very good at some useful things, but also capable of being used in all sorts of ways I personally find every bit as unappealing/disturbing/stupid as late-term abortion in the absence of a medical emergency. My children were delivered by 4 different doctors in 2 different hospitals, and there’s only one that I would choose to go back to for any reason, but I’d rather see doctors like them offering abortion as an aspect of reproductive medicine than have some states where it’s never an option and others where it’s treated like boob jobs and Botox treatments.
Hope this makes sense, I’ve been up half the night with a stomach bug and not currently doing my best thinking.

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I don't know what the endgame may be. The Carthage quote maybe hints, tho I would sure like to believe we are no longer capable of such things, at least in mass. I don't want to think it.

Yes, it makes sense. If I understand correctly, I don't think much different. Basically I am saying that one extreme naturally leads to another.

posted May 04, 2022 04:49 PM            

That being said, it is quite enlightening to watch the same people who championed the Supreme court candidacy of a judge who couldnt' define what is a woman because according to her, she was not a biologist, the same folks are waxing about women's rights to choose and how dangerous removing Roe vs Wade is for women. All of a sudden, everyone knows who is a woman without being biologists.

posted May 06, 2022 10:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by teasel:
http://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdgMLNt3/

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There's something seriously wrong with you....and the rest of the 'Kill the babies and save the whales, save the polar bears and save the delta smelt crowd' but first, kill the babies.

posted May 25, 2022 03:47 PM            

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Originally posted by teasel:
Have any of you ever apologized for calling me and others “baby killers”?? You shouldn’t have done it in the first place.

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Supporting abortion is supporting the killing of babies... it is supporting baby killers, whatever rationale one uses (women's rights, women's bodies, women's choice) to justify abortion.