posted May 19, 2021 11:35 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by placidus_flamingo:
What belage said:
“Oakland where you live is famous for its high crime rate, and in 2021, Oakland homicide surges by over 300 percent:
https://thepostmillennial.com/oakland-homicide-rate-up-300-in-2021/

When BLM starts caring about crime in the inner cities, I will start supporting and marching too.”

“Where are the BLM marches against the homicides in Oakland where you live?”

My response was to point out that a lot of the increased violence she mentioned is racially motivated (I’m not sure how much of it) and to send a link to the active protests that were held recently (yesterday?)

And then comes the slew of: “well no one here is like that!!”

No one ******* said that. Although your ability to completely dismiss race in this country as not an issue makes me wonder. Or maybe it was another super funny joke I’m too dumb to understand.

What’s hilarious to me is that I didn’t even bring it up, you did.

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why are you equating asian hate crimes and blm?

where did i dismiss race completely as not an issue? what i said was a statistical fact most people killed by cops are white men, across the board mental illness is the highest risk factor for murder by cop, the percentage of black lives lost to police brutality is minimal in comparison to the amount of lives lost in their own neighborhoods at the hands of other black people

racism exists, but not everything is or should be a race issue, and police brutality is one of those things

not only is police brutality not the result of the majority of interactions people have with cops but it isn't statistically a reflection on race

the left loves divisive identity politics though and will take anything and make it a race issue, black lives matter is an all around terrible movement

i notice you didn't address what i said about what its supporters did by going after that cop who saved a girl from being stabbed to death in front of him by killing her attacker; why not?

keep in mind i brought up black lives matter in the context of a joke (unrelated to asian hate crimes) and my comment on no one here saying anything racist against asians was not about the movement whatsoever but rather a comment on you grasping at straws earlier to find an anti asian sentiment here (not too long ago your words were along the lines of: you commented on their government and media RACIST) on LL.

posted May 19, 2021 11:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
I have no idea what you're talking about. Can you be more specific?

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I’m asking if you read the second link I sent and whether you read the abstract from first. I’ll paste it in below.

Objectives. To determine the number of excess deaths (i.e., those exceeding historical trends after accounting for COVID-19 deaths) occurring in Florida during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Methods. Using seasonal autoregressive integrated moving average time-series modeling and historical mortality trends in Florida, we forecasted monthly deaths from January to September of 2020 in the absence of the pandemic. We compared estimated deaths with monthly recorded total deaths (i.e., all deaths regardless of cause) during the COVID-19 pandemic and deaths only from COVID-19 to measure excess deaths in Florida.

Results. Our results suggest that Florida experienced 19 241 (15.5%) excess deaths above historical trends from March to September 2020, including 14 317 COVID-19 deaths and an additional 4924 all-cause, excluding COVID-19, deaths in that period.

posted May 19, 2021 11:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by placidus_flamingo:
It’s like using a condom. Pretty effective. Not 100%. Certain classes of people are advised to continue wearing masks even after being vaccinated. My dad is one of them. I wear them when I’m out with him bc hopefully that will encourage others to do so. Not holding my breath though.

You keep talking like it’s personal choice and a terribly risky one at that. I just don’t see it that way. David brooks sums it up pretty well:

“We’re not asking you to storm the beaches of Iwo Jima; we’re asking you to walk into a damn CVS.”🤣

“America will not achieve herd immunity anytime soon. Instead of being largely beaten, this disease could linger, as a more manageable threat, for generations. A major reason is that about 30 percent of the U.S. population is reluctant to get vaccinated.

Americans have always been an individualistic people who don’t like being told what to do. But in times of crisis, they have historically still had the capacity to form what Alexis de Tocqueville called a “social body,” a coherent community capable of collective action.

That basic sense of peoplehood, of belonging to a common enterprise with a shared destiny, is exactly what’s lacking today. Researchers and reporters who talk to the vaccine-hesitant find that the levels of distrust, suspicion and alienation that have marred politics are now thwarting the vaccination process.

“The Atlantic recently contacted more than a dozen people who were refusing to get a Covid-19 vaccine. They often used an argument you’ve probably heard, too: I’m not especially vulnerable. I may have already gotten the virus. If I get it in the future it won’t be that bad. Why should I take a risk on an experimental vaccine?

They are reasoning mostly on a personal basis. They are thinking about what’s right for them as individuals more than what’s right for the nation and the most vulnerable people in it. It’s not that they are rebuking their responsibilities as citizens; it apparently never occurs to them that they might have any

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your father's safety is his responsibility, as is everyone else's, and no one is obligated to be a science experiment for the sake of other people if there are other precautionary measures they can take to avoid illness

if you believe people can keep themselves safe and did before the vaccine then you believe that those measures are still effective, meaning no one is obligated to be a lab rat

also if i can keep myself safe why is my concern on whether or not others choose not to?

posted May 19, 2021 11:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by placidus_flamingo:
I’m asking if you read the second link I sent and whether you read the abstract from first. I’ll paste it in below.

Objectives. To determine the number of excess deaths (i.e., those exceeding historical trends after accounting for COVID-19 deaths) occurring in Florida during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Methods. Using seasonal autoregressive integrated moving average time-series modeling and historical mortality trends in Florida, we forecasted monthly deaths from January to September of 2020 in the absence of the pandemic. We compared estimated deaths with monthly recorded total deaths (i.e., all deaths regardless of cause) during the COVID-19 pandemic and deaths only from COVID-19 to measure excess deaths in Florida.

Results. Our results suggest that Florida experienced 19 241 (15.5%) excess deaths above historical trends from March to September 2020, including 14 317 COVID-19 deaths and an additional 4924 all-cause, excluding COVID-19, deaths in that period.

Conclusions. Total deaths are significantly higher than historical trends in Florida even when accounting for COVID-19–related deaths. The impact of COVID-19 on mortality is significantly greater than the official COVID-19 data suggest.

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i don't base conclusions on ABSTRACTS.

I read full texts of studies.

You claim to be scientifically led, you should do the same. That is what scientists do.

For the last time, post the damn full text!

posted May 19, 2021 11:48 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
why are you equating asian hate crimes and blm?

where did i dismiss race completely as not an issue? what i said was a statistical fact most people killed by cops are white men, across the board mental illness is the highest risk factor for murder, the percentage of black lives lost to police brutality is minimal in comparison to the amount of lives lost in their own neighborhoods at the hands of other black people

racism exists, but not everything is or should be a race issue, and police brutality is one of those things

not only is police brutality not the result of the majority of interactions people have with cops but it isn't statistically a reflection on race

the left loves divisive identity politics though and will take anything and make it a race issue, black lives matter is an all around terrible movement

i notice you didn't address what i said about what its supporters did by going after that cop who saved a girl from being stabbed to death in front of him by killing her attacker; why not?

keep in mind i brought up black lives matter in the context of a joke (unrelated to asian hate crimes) and my comment on no one here saying anything racist against asians was not about the movement whatsoever but rather a comment on you grasping at straws earlier to find an anti asian sentiment here (not too long ago your words were along the lines of: you commented on their government and media RACIST) on LL.

you just like being triggered, that being said I'm not white personally before you try to pull that ******** line of thinking when you talk about race 🤷‍♀️

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Here’s where you dismissed race as an issue: “ black lives matter it's divisive ******** that plays the race card over an actual issue (police brutality).”

Both are actual issues. Yes, race is a factor. It is in terms of police violence and sentencing.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02601-9

posted May 19, 2021 11:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
your father's safety is his responsibility, as is everyone else's, and no one is obligated to be a science experiment for the sake of other people if there are other precautionary measures they can take to avoid illness

if you believe people can keep themselves safe and did before the vaccine then you believe that those measures are still effective, meaning no one is obligated to be a lab rat

also if i can keep myself safe why is my concern on whether or not others choose not to?

by all means feel free to be a lab rat, you'll be an example years from now on whether or not that was a good choice for the rest of us need me to salute you?

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I said it was my choice to do that and I don’t expect others to do the same… not really sue what you’re talking about.

posted May 19, 2021 11:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by placidus_flamingo:
Here’s where you dismissed race as an issue: “ black lives matter it's divisive ******** that plays the race card over an actual issue (police brutality).”

Both are actual issues. Yes, race is a factor. It is in terms of police violence and sentencing.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02601-9

That’s sad what happened to that girl. It doesn’t change the dozens (or more?) of unnecessary deaths. Or things like the prison industrial complex. If you don’t see race as an issue in this country, a systemic one at that, I really don’t know why we’re communicating at all.

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blm largely targets police brutality, police brutality is not a race issue it's a human one and black people are not being killed the most by cops nor are cops killing more of them than they do each other

yes please tell me all about the systemic racism faced by people who can get into college based on affirmative action over merit and have access to many of the same things everyone else does

posted May 19, 2021 11:54 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by placidus_flamingo:
I said it was my choice to do that and I don’t expect others to do the same… not really sue what you’re talking about.

The lab rat thing shows your ignorance and bias. Been drinking that conservative koolaid?

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you condemn people who don't do as you do by calling them ******** and going on about what our duty as citizens is etc how is that you implying you don't expect others to do the same? seems like you do or you find them less than you

what ignorance and bias the vaccines are experimental and were pushed through rather quickly, emergency approval by the fda no one can know longterm consequences of getting them as of now

posted May 19, 2021 12:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by placidus_flamingo:
So let me get this straight bc I don’t want to put words in your mouth: you don’t think racism exists?

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where did i say that? of course racism exists, is it on par with the claims of certain groups and the overblown **** liberals spout? no

are black people also perpetrators of racism and not just victims? yes

are they themselves responsible for many of the issues they face in 2021? absolutely

are they able to based on race not merit have access to resources that are beneficial to them if they choose to take those things? also yes

imagine complaining about being kept down while avoiding every opportunity being handed to you to pull yourself up

that's something black people do to each other and it's not everyone else's fault 🤷‍♀️

posted May 19, 2021 12:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
where did i say that? of course racism exists, is it on par with the claims of certain groups and the overblown **** liberals spout? no

are black people also perpetrators of racism and not just victims? yes

are they themselves responsible for many of the issues they face in 2021? absolutely

are they able to based on race not merit have access to resources that are beneficial to them if they choose to take those things? also yes

imagine complaining about being kept down while avoiding every opportunity being handed to you to pull yourself up

that's something black people do to each other and it's not everyone else's fault 🤷‍♀️

racism does exist but it is not the cause of police brutality (arguably ignorance about mental health and improper treatment for that is the number 1 factor in most police brutality cases) and blm is divisive because it takes a non race issue and turns it into identity politics

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Ok so it does exist, but it’s black peoples own fault bc they don’t take advantage of opportunities they’ve been given? and race has nothing to do with police violence?

posted May 19, 2021 12:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by placidus_flamingo:
Ok so it does exist, but it’s black peoples own fault bc they don’t take advantage of opportunities they’ve been given? and race has nothing to do with police violence?

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I am sure there are racist police officers. But we cannot make the assumption that everytime a black person is shot or dies by police it is racially motivated.

We all assumed the death of George Floyd was racially motivated. I did too. Until I found out about Tony Timpa.

Tony Timpa was a white man killed in the same circumstances by the police, in 2016.

His family fought the police department for 3 years before they released the bodycam video which showed the way Timpa died. That was in 2019, 1 year before George Floyd.

Just google Tony Timpa!

posted May 19, 2021 12:38 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by placidus_flamingo:
Ok so it does exist, but it’s black peoples own fault bc they don’t take advantage of opportunities they’ve been given? and race has nothing to do with police violence?

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it does exist, black people can also be racist, it's simply hate towards a group of people based solely on their race

never said it was anyone's fault, nice twist on my words there though, very classic move but disingenuous

black people are responsible for working towards cleaning up their communities even moreso than the people who do not live in them, and they are given opportunities that people who are not minorities don't get because of affirmative action

some of the reasons they avoid taking these opportunities have to do with issues in their culture that are toxic that they need to work on, people as a whole can only give so much

affirmative action means race/gender over merit (if people wanted true fairness blind applications would be pushed for) and that's something they can take advantage of which makes it hard to claim that they're being kept down based on race and given no opportunities (opposite is there)

considering police mostly kill mentally ill people (all races) and the next statistic is white men no i would say it wasn't a black issue but a human one in general and that it's very misleading and divisive to turn it into a race issue

posted May 19, 2021 12:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
it does exist, black people can also be racist, it's simply hate towards a group of people based solely on their race

never said it was anyone's fault, nice twist on my words there though, very classic move but disingenuous

black people are responsible for working towards cleaning up their communities even moreso than the people who do not live in them, and they are given opportunities that people who are not minorities don't get because of affirmative action

some of the reasons they avoid taking these opportunities have to do with issues in their culture that are toxic that they need to work on, people as a whole can only give so much

affirmative action means race/gender over merit (if people wanted true fairness blind applications would be pushed for) and that's something they can take advantage of which makes it hard to claim that they're being kept down based on race and given no opportunities (opposite is there)

considering police mostly kill mentally ill people (all races) and the next statistic is white men no i would say it wasn't a black issue but a human one in general and that it's very misleading and divisive to turn it into a race issue

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https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/07/data-police-racial-bias

posted May 19, 2021 12:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by placidus_flamingo:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/07/data-police-racial-bias

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look up the statistics on actual police shootings you will see white men at the top of those deaths along with mental illness

posted May 19, 2021 01:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by teasel:
Florida lied about their numbers, in order to play it all down.

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It takes the truth a while to catch up to the liars.

Desantis did not run a phony covid 19 reporting operation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWS-sqpQ9No

posted May 19, 2021 02:02 PM            

This is the disturbing video of the death of Tony Timpa (A WHITE MAN!) at the hand of the Dallas police force. Video finally released in 2019. Death occured in 2016

https://youtu.be/_c-E_i8Q5G0

Tony Timpa's mother reacts after seeing the video of the death of her son:

https://youtu.be/zHZWYtGlF6U

This is hard to watch.

I am only posting these things in the hope that we will stop having racial knee jerk reactions every time a police officer shoots or kills a black person. Each case is different. Some cases will be racial, no doubt, but not all cases can be blamed on racism. And we cannot reform and improve the police force if we are mired in racial politics.

posted May 19, 2021 03:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Belage:
Some cases will be racial, no doubt, but not all cases can be blamed on racism. And we cannot reform and improve the police force if we are mired in racial politics.

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posted May 19, 2021 06:21 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by jwhop:
It takes the truth a while to catch up to the liars.

Desantis did not run a phony covid 19 reporting operation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWS-sqpQ9No

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posted May 19, 2021 06:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
your father's safety is his responsibility, as is everyone else's, and no one is obligated to be a science experiment for the sake of other people if there are other precautionary measures they can take to avoid illness

if you believe people can keep themselves safe and did before the vaccine then you believe that those measures are still effective, meaning no one is obligated to be a lab rat

also if i can keep myself safe why is my concern on whether or not others choose not to?

by all means feel free to be a lab rat, you'll be an example years from now on whether or not that was a good choice for the rest of us need me to salute you?

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posted May 19, 2021 07:07 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LuckyLeo:
Teasel,
Doesn’t change the fact that what was once considered a reasonable statement has now been reframed as unreasonable.

That’s all I was saying.

I’m not sure why you mention “trumpets” in replying to me. My comment had nothing to do with politics.

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