posted June 07, 2012 08:12 AM            

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Originally posted by Odette:
Most of the movies you mentioned are not in the genre I have in mind. The plot does not revolve around dating/love/sex as it does in say - Sex and The City.... or He's not that into you...
These kinds of movies purport to be quite REALISTIC... They do not have supernatural themes. They aim to give the public a window into the *real* dating lives of *real* people.. but it is actually BS.

When a movie or series is in that genre ^ -- THEN -- the way dating is portrayed and the problems involved... are usually from the perspective of the poor woman who wants to get married and all the troubles she has on the way there.. and how she keeps getting rejected and trying and chasing after the jerks who do not call her back bla bla... the poor little thing...
It's very classic American-style... to make a tv series or movie - along these lines with the "poor" little Jane who can't find a guy who wants to commit.

I feel like it's a vicious circle.. because the media creates this problem and exacerbates it by emphasising it.

Imagine for a second - that a series was created that was exactly like Sex and the City - only the main characters would all be men - all looking for a partner.. all wanting a serious relationship with the exception of one who is the "samantha-type" (the male version).
Do you think this would EVER get aired?
Seriously?
Of course it wouldn't... because it does not fit in with that false American social "standard" of all women wanting commitment and all men being noncommittal.

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I'm not sure why fantasy or supernatural elements make a difference given that the romantic angles and entanglements are extremely popular with the female (and sometimes male) audience and still showed an alternative to women only want commitment and men only want to play the field.

But even so, He's Not That Into You was a romantic comedy like Mean Girls (granted, Mean Girls is more about “girl world” in general but includes a strong romantic angle, and if HNTIY can be considered realistic then so can MG), and then there's How I Met Your Mother. White Oleander is meant to be realistic (some think it's unrealistic by how it portrays foster care, but if anything foster care is actually worse than the movie shows). The Notebook isn't comedy but pure romance (and otherwise considered realistic).

posted June 07, 2012 09:41 AM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I don't know aquacheeka, I have seen things that lead me to believe this is true, I'm a bit time people watcher, so I see a lot, I have noticed that when the man has acted uninterested the woman is crazy about him, but when the man actually reciprocates the woman runs for the hills, and they say only men are commitment phobes. -_-

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Men do it too. If you act aloof and uninterested, they want you more. Everyone has Mars in their chart. Everyone wants a good chase.

This title should really be amended to "are some PEOPLE commitmentphobes." It's funny that you're operating under the assumption that women automatically want a relationship.

posted June 07, 2012 09:50 AM            

And when a Taurus Sun ignores you, usually they really don't want anything to do with you and are not playing reverse psychology games.

posted June 07, 2012 11:21 AM            

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Originally posted by FireMoon:
In my personal opinion, this goes back to the basics in our society…. From the time we’re old enough to learn about sex we’re taught that it’s not appropriate for women to be sexually aggressive, while this is just an expected aspect of male behavior. It’s ok because men just can’t help themselves, but women don’t/shouldn’t desire sex in the same way which means it’s their job to be modest, make sure they aren’t being overly tempting, pick the "right" guy etc. I don’t even need to go into the value we place on women’s physical appearance, and how this and the feeling of being”desired” becomes a measurement of worth and self esteem for so many girls, especially young ones… So basically for some (or a lot I would agree) of women the dating world can be a competition with high stakes, the bigger an a**hole a guy is, and the more attractive women are pining after him, the better she’ll feel about herself if this person pays her any attention…

Of course as we get older we learn there’s much more to life than appearances or status, or at least this is what should happen… I agree with Hera and think it ultimately just comes down to emotional maturity and self esteem. Girls with low self-esteem will go after guys who treat them badly, to re affirm how they already feel about themselves, same goes for guys… From my experience living in Hawaii surrounded by military bases, I’ve met a lot of “good hearted” guys who claim to only want a good girl and stable relationship, but seem to always be pursuing women who aren’t interested back or treat them like s***. Then the resentment comes pouring out later on, because women are liars and w*****…

In girls or guys I don’t think this necessarily seperates the wheat from the chaff as YTA said, I think it’a symptom of deeper problems personally and in our society, and it’s something that’s good to discuss as both genders can learn from each other…

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I agree FireMoon, it's not just women who are guilty of this. Men always say they want a nice girl, but if she isn't good-looking enough they're not even looking. They exclusively chase after women who are more attractive than they are, and then feel slighted when these women don't reciprocate their interest and stereotype all women based off of that, saying, "All the good ones are taken," or, "Women today are really promiscuous." No, not all women are promiscuous. If you're chasing after the leggy supermodel, SHE may be promiscuous, because she can AFFORD to be. Her mate value in our society is high. She doesn't have to commit. Meanwhile, you've just ignored 12 perfectly nice, plain-looking girls.

posted June 07, 2012 12:25 PM            

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Originally posted by amowls**:
Men do it too. If you act aloof and uninterested, they want you more. Everyone has Mars in their chart. Everyone wants a good chase.

This title should really be amended to "are some PEOPLE commitmentphobes." It's funny that you're operating under the assumption that women automatically want a relationship.

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Amen.

I'd also add that there's an additional assumption that women who don't want relationships had a bad experience, are promiscuous, or just need the "right" person.

Not true.

And, I'll reiterate: if a woman doesn't want a relationship, she's not a bad person.

posted June 07, 2012 12:29 PM            

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
I agree FireMoon, it's not just women who are guilty of this. Men always say they want a nice girl, but if she isn't good-looking enough they're not even looking. They exclusively chase after women who are more attractive than they are, and then feel slighted when these women don't reciprocate their interest and stereotype all women based off of that, saying, "All the good ones are taken," or, "Women today are really promiscuous." No, not all women are promiscuous. If you're chasing after the leggy supermodel, SHE may be promiscuous, because she can AFFORD to be. Her mate value in our society is high. She doesn't have to commit. Meanwhile, you've just ignored 12 perfectly nice, plain-looking girls.

I've seen it happen many times. I am the cupid in my group of friends and there is one girl who I can't seem to hook up with ANY of my guy friends.

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That is SO true.

posted June 07, 2012 07:57 PM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I never said women are bad people if they dont want a relationship,nor do i expect every girl to be interested in me,im not delusional lmao. But this a phenemenon among some women regardless, as i said i have done experiments where i act like a player/a-hole and the same women who werent interested in me at all suddenly became interested in me when i took on that persona,does that tell you anything ? Do you see what im talking about? The same women who didnt want a thing to do with me when i was a possibility of something stable and serious suddenly became hot for me when i became unavailable for commitment. The interesting thing about all these girls i used as guinea pigs was that they all said they wanted a serious relationship,that they wanted a good guy and were tired of games etc. But they werent interested in that when it was offered, but they were sure as hell interested in me when they thought i was going to clubs and meeting and sleeping with lots of women. They wanted something serious with a manho, how could someone possibly think that would ever work? But they werent interested when there was an actual chance at having something real. And thats what i meant by the topic, and again,never said all women are this way,just some.

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if you mean that some women go for bad boys, then yeah, I agree that this is annoying

bad boys can't be fixed--sometimes, women want to be "saviors" who "fix" a man, but this is impossible to do

still, though, don't take it as a personal affront to you--it's about them; it's kind of a phase that some women have to go through, and a phase that some women never grow out of, unfortunately

posted June 07, 2012 08:27 PM            

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
if you mean that some women go for bad boys, then yeah, I agree that this is annoying
bad boys can't be fixed--sometimes, women want to be "saviors" who "fix" a man, but this is impossible to do
still, though, don't take it as a personal affront to you--it's about them; it's kind of a phase that some women have to go through, and a phase that some women never grow out of, unfortunately
so, don't take it so personally--just think of it as someone having bad taste

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posted June 07, 2012 09:57 PM            

I can think of women who believe all men are batterers but thing is she's not interested unless he's the kind she despises. When she's hooked up with a nice guy she just doesn't like him (but she's still convinced he'd beat her).

And there was a guy who was convinced all women were back stabbing ***** . He wasn't interested in me or most other girls because of how he felt we were, and yet he always hooked up with the women who were as he feared them to be. What was really interesting is that I had a friend who was such an angel that we literally called her "Angel" but after some severe family drama & trauma she had a nervous breakdown and became an emotional wreck who was fickle and slutty and all of a sudden THAT GUY LIKED HER when he didn't before, and of course when it ended badly it just confirmed his view of all women.

posted June 07, 2012 11:11 PM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I wonder if you're not just drawing a certain type of person to you Aquaguy...after all it's very unusual (I'm including what you've said most women want in other threads as well which make for a very odd mix when combined together). I can think of women who believe all men are batterers but thing is she's not interested unless he's the kind she despises. When she's hooked up with a nice guy she just doesn't like him (but she's still convinced he'd beat her). And there was a guy who was convinced all women were back stabbing ***** . He wasn't interested in me or most other girls because of how he felt we were, and yet he always hooked up with the women who were as he feared them to be. What was really interesting is that I had a friend who was such an angel that we literally called her "Angel" but after some severe family drama & trauma she had a nervous breakdown and became an emotional wreck who was fickle and slutty and all of a sudden THAT GUY LIKED HER when he didn't before, and of course when it ended badly it just confirmed his view of all women. So I do wonder if you're doing what a few men and women do and subconsciously attract (or are attracted to) a certain type and blind to the majority who aren't like that.

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posted June 07, 2012 11:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PixieJane:
[b]I wonder if you're not just drawing a certain type of person to you Aquaguy...after all it's very unusual (I'm including what you've said most women want in other threads as well which make for a very odd mix when combined together). I can think of women who believe all men are batterers but thing is she's not interested unless he's the kind she despises. When she's hooked up with a nice guy she just doesn't like him (but she's still convinced he'd beat her). And there was a guy who was convinced all women were back stabbing ***** . He wasn't interested in me or most other girls because of how he felt we were, and yet he always hooked up with the women who were as he feared them to be. What was really interesting is that I had a friend who was such an angel that we literally called her "Angel" but after some severe family drama & trauma she had a nervous breakdown and became an emotional wreck who was fickle and slutty and all of a sudden THAT GUY LIKED HER when he didn't before, and of course when it ended badly it just confirmed his view of all women. So I do wonder if you're doing what a few men and women do and subconsciously attract (or are attracted to) a certain type and blind to the majority who aren't like that.

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posted June 07, 2012 11:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:

I don't think that it's so much that "you went too far." It's just that it's a violation of physiological law/common sense so it's hard for people to process. lol.

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posted June 08, 2012 03:01 AM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
i never said all women are that way, but you cant deny that it is something that is happening, and quiet common to boot

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I can't deny that the women you describe exist, but I can and will deny that is quite common, at least once you add in everything else you've said most females want (metrosexuals with big penises who don't think they're beautiful and play around).

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
All i know is my life experience and what i have observed,and other guys who have shared their experiences with, and countless stories from guys on the net

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Same here for why I believe as I believe. But our experiences can come about in part because of the signals we send out, the kind of people we just seem to keep falling in with, and by mixing with people with similar experiences who affirm our world view while having little to do with those who don't.

I was a runaway and I mixed with a lot of foster kids who had been abused in the system. Therefore I came to think that foster care was hellish and I'd never do anything to get a kid sent to one. But that belief made sense based on my negative experiences with the adult world (that I carried over into adulthood) and mixing with kids who had fled their foster homes to the streets. That is, I wasn't getting a fully accurate observation of foster care as I thought because my personal experience came from getting to know those who ran from hellish homes. Meanwhile other kids are happy in their foster homes (or at least find them tolerable) and can even develop lifelong gratitude for their foster parents, but of course those kids don't run away from home so I never met them, and the kids who grew into people who hated foster care and those who loved it just couldn't get along when one felt gratitude and defensive of it while the other felt hateful and angry over the same system. After awhile I came to realize that while there's extreme abuse in foster care there's also good in the system, too, despite my observations and talking with others who affirmed by world view. I came to look into it after enough defended foster care on the internet and sharing their positive experiences and assuming they were telling the truth (why would they lie?) I reexamined my views (good thing I didn't just dismiss them on the assumption that what I observed and heard from others in the same desperate sitch as me constituted objective reality that should not be questioned...)

That is to say our experiences don't reveal objective reality, especially if we practice tunnel vision (as all too many do, for more on that see Prometheus Rising).

And I think you can use that book because you have repeatedly implied that when we voice our experiences that we are deluded, lying, or brainwashed by PC forces (which means you can ignore what we say) and only those who agree with you are thinking clearly. You're not going to learn anything that way when you think your views are objective while everyone else's are subjective. Yours is just as subjective as ours and if you really want to understand (as opposed to fight and stir up drama) then you're going to have to realize and try to overcome that. This is not to say you're wrong, it's to say you only understand a tiny bit of reality and miss a lot, just as we all do to some degree or another. It takes hard work to overcome that (and the book I suggested can help).

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
i just hate how when guys voice their frustrations with romance/women, the overwhelming response is "she's not into you get over it buddy! Or something similar but more insulting, the guy is always told it must be him who is the problem

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And here you did exactly what I was wondering if you were doing. If you look at my response that you quoted I pointed out that there are women who get with batterers and believe all men are that way but they're the ones going to them and refusing to have anything to do with the nice (or at least civilized) guys they claim they want.

As Anya said in BtVS: Triangle:

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Humans make the same mistakes over and over. I saw it when I was a vengeance demon. Some guy dumps a girl, she calls me, I exact vengeance, blah blah blah, the next year, same girl, different guy. I mean, after you smite a few of 'em you start going, "My goodness, young lady... maybe you're doing something wrong here too."

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And you should watch more chick flicks. You'll see that the villains are usually female and if it is a male then there are extenuating circumstances and/or a man saves her. It's also common enough to a woman to save a man from a bad woman who doesn't deserve him (Stardust comes quickly to mind).

Women's magazines are also filled with articles on how to get and keep a man warning her of all the things she's doing wrong. Plenty of self-help books also exist on this topic.

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
But if a woman was to vent her frustration about a man ,we dont even question it as a society,why is that?

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Another assumption. Lots of people blame the woman. In my experience women are even more likely to blame the woman than a man.

Btw, plenty of songs, from R&B to country, also contradict your premise as they show eager men and eager women, and they also have plenty of men singing about bad women (such as What Hurts the Most by Rascal Flatts, You'll Think of Me by Keith Urban, Heartless by Kanye West, and the classic Your Cheating Heart by Hank Williams) as they do of women singing about bad men (and sometimes women sing about bad women, like Homewrecker by Gretchen Wilson), and they all can get high in the charts. Because of You by Kelly Clarkson was another that made it to the top 10 that showed in the vid that it wasn't all the man's fault, that what a woman does matters as well. Concrete Angel by Martina McBride is about a girl beaten to death by her mother, and a little boy is the hero of the vid. And I could keep going on with how the world doesn't fit with your claims. Maybe instead of dismissing me as brainwashed or PC or hypocritical maybe you should check these songs out (and other things I referenced) and ask yourself if it doesn't reflect a part of reality you're just ignoring.

And to be clear I'm not saying the women you describe don't exist, I'm saying they're not the norm (again, once you include all the attributes you insist on giving us).

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
For example it is widely accepted that men are commitment phobes and nobody really debates that, but when i say that some women might be consciously /unconsciously running from commitment, uh oh i went too far.

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posted June 08, 2012 06:59 AM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:

It is a serious problem, that i believe needs to be adressed, there is obviously something wrong with the self esteems of girls in their teens that causes them to fall into these patterns of abuse. I would like to see it change for the better. From what i have seen alot of women never get out of this pattern once started, my mom is in her 50s and still stuck in this pattern. And i wish i could tell you this kind of thing doesnt bother me and i dont take it personal but i do. Its frustrating being the guy that has the qualities women say they desire in a man or wish more men possessed but being ignored or blew off by women, not only that but seeing these same women literally drop their panties for the guys who they supposedly hate. Now im rational and realize that not every single woman will be interested in me,but you would kind of think that seeing as i have the qualities women supposedly crave from a man that atleast a few would, lol but i havent seen it yet. And whats even more frustrating is that i know its not because of looks, i am the spitting image of my dad who was a womanizer, and also i see alot of pretty women with guys a whole lot worse looking than me lol.

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well, too, you also may have to be open to different kinds of girls

posted June 08, 2012 09:47 AM            

when i approach an issue, first n foremost, I'll ask what i can do to resolve it; i can't change how others are like but i can control what are my thoughts, actions n choice.

I dislike commitment phobia guys n/or immature guys n/or shallow superficity; 1 solution i had was i try to not date guys younger than me or my age cos my experienced are such that. No matter the attraction we hv with each other, i will hold back if my gut feeling is that he won't match up. I pride myself on never making the same mistake twice.

my heartfelt gentle observation i wana share w you: it doesn't matter how some girls used to treat u, it is more how u will nvr let another such girl treat u like that again. Think solutions n not dwell on what u hv no control over - how other ppl think act blah blah.

posted June 08, 2012 06:12 PM            

You're like trying to preach market capitalism in Pyongyang. The harder you try, the more frustrated you get. It's just you vs. the estrogen brigade.

I see both perspectives, but they don't see yours, and you don't see theirs. It's a fruitless debate with zero resolution, and it's stuff like that which highlights the fundamental difference in thinking and mindset.

posted June 09, 2012 01:52 AM            

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
It's just you vs. the estrogen brigade.

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Hmm ... To refer to the women who posted in this thread as an "estrogen brigade" is being disparaging and dismissive of their individuality, intelligence, and the time they've taken to discuss the OP's dilemma with him. (I'll stop short of calling it macho).

Each responder is an individual woman or lady (myself included) who took the time to think about the OP's dilemma. I take exception to having my individuality and intelligence reduced to the predominant hormone I carry in my body.

And I don't think anyone is "brigading" against the OP. He started a thread inviting people's opinions and he got that.

As to there being no resolution, well I don't think Aquaguy is looking for one. After my posts I read some of his replies to other posters and I realized he's just looking to vent his frustrations about his experiences with women as he has in many of his other posts in other threads.

I initially thought he was interested in understanding the psychology behind such behavior and so I responded by suggesting he consider the age, immaturity, etc.

posted June 09, 2012 06:40 AM            

And if you don't get the sacarsm, I wouldn't bother explaining. None of you actually want to listen to him, albeit with good intentions, you are sharing your individual perspectives and collective wisdom. My comment was out of humor and wasn't some convoluted phrase of machoism or bravado. And stop with the not so subtle attacks on males.

posted June 09, 2012 09:01 AM            

Maybe you're like everyone else and you like a good chase so you go after women who are unattainable in some way (a bad girl, if you will). Maybe you're ignoring all the nice girls in favor of one who will abuse you. Maybe when you THINK you're acting "nice", you're really just being clingy, which is unattractive to most people.

The only way I've successfully "caught" guys is to act super aloof like you couldn't care if they ever called you again. Any time I've acted really interested, the take my affections for granted and don't bother keeping up the courting.

posted June 09, 2012 10:15 AM            

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
well, too, you also may have to be open to different kinds of girls

if the girls that you normally go for aren't interested, maybe trying something radical and different--you ARE an Aquarius after all --might help

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posted June 09, 2012 10:49 AM            

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Originally posted by amowls**:
YTA your tone is very disrespectful.

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posted June 09, 2012 11:00 AM            

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
It was in jest. In military parlance, a brigade is a strength of between 2,000 and 2,400. It highlights that it's him vs. the multitudes.

And if you don't get the sacarsm, I wouldn't bother explaining.

My comment was out of humor and wasn't some convoluted phrase of machoism or bravado. And stop with the not so subtle attacks on males.

Call it whatever you like. I was communicating with aquaguy and no one else. And I'm not futhering this conversation.

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It seems like you are attempting to confuse the issue by launching into an explanation of something I mentioned only peripherally, i.e., your use of the word "brigade."

I think I made it very clear that I took exception to your reference of the women posters as a group/cluster/mass/whatever ... of estrogen rather than women or ladies as each one is entitled to being called (myself included since I was one of the posters).

I also said that I found your use of the term estrogen in the above mentioned context as disparaging, i.e., demeaning, and dismissive of the contributing women's individuality, intelligence, and the time they've taken to respond (myself included).

And I stopped short of calling your comments macho, even though they would actually qualify for that definition. Machismo by definition, includes a range of behavior characterizing an excessive show of masculinity often depicted by disparaging women.

You can speak with or support Aquaguy all you want without resorting to disparaging the women who've contributed to the conversation.

You can also use as much humor and wit as you want provided the object of your humor, i.e., the women (myself included), also find your comments humorous. If the women do not find them funny, then your comments are not funny. This is considered the norm in all forms of polite social interaction.