posted November 20, 2013 07:23 AM            

God help me if I ever come across a Rapist, and the pathetic thing is, I would probably go to jail, while they got off with no sentence.

For me, rape and child abuse are the two most sickening things. Murder is a horrifying thing also, but those two get me so angry.

I read a case about a Woman who was raped, she went through the system and when conversing with a police officer about the case, his response was something along the lines of, "I am really sorry, but in all honesty I do not think we have enough evidence to really get a court to convict this man. With that in mind, would you still like to continue this process and formally report the rape and launch an investigation?" The woman declined, and her reasoning was, that she did not want to go through all the emotional and psychological trauma of a trial and hearings, just to see the man not be convicted.

A Patriarchal society is wrong, in my opinion. There are no reasons why men should be any more important, should hold any more power, should have any sway to make any more decisions than women. It is something that has happened over thousands of years. Maybe those men realised that their physical strength was one advantage women did not have. Those men who sought power, used that advantage and to be powerful was to be associated with being strong. Over the years, perhaps that became further blurred, with, to be powerful is to be male. I would say that the way we are built, we are meant to be the protector of our species. Yet this role of protection has been subverted to the role of domination, and that is entirely unhealthy. I'm not saying women are incapable of protecting themselves or others. Only that men have an inherent physical advantage and evolutionary nature to be more aggressive should the need arise.

Society, everyone. Needs to stand up, recognise that this behaviour is unacceptable and everyone needs to speak out against it. It is not okay to, condone, mumble away, or just ignore this behaviour.

This will sound extreme, but if I lived and ran my own world. All rapists would either be incarcerated indefinitely, or executed. All child abusers would just be executed. If you are willing and do abuse someone else's rights and free will in that way. I don't care, I just don't care.

There is little that can be done to help those who report rape. There are reasons why people don't report rape also. Combined, this makes a huge issue for society.

Rape is wrong. There is no, and can never be justification.

No means no. There is no other definition.

posted November 20, 2013 07:25 AM            

sigh

posted November 20, 2013 07:26 AM            

:\

posted November 20, 2013 09:16 AM            

My heart, however, is foremost with children. No offense. Children cannot defend themselves, verbally or otherwise. At least the 19th Amendment gives women a voice.

The August 18, 1920 ratification unfortunately needed Tennessee's vite as the 36th State, and the state legislature debate caused a circus, but that was just the way the Constitution was drafted. Nothing that complex can be perfect.

Anyway, children don't have any voice.

I've always said that the path to eradication is for society to not only educate but to also impose harsh penalities. The punishments under US law is a joke. Harsh consequenences are the best deterrent to all crime.

My sons don't ever misbehave... ever... because they are brought up properly, educated, and because they know what's coming to them. The threat of overwhelming force serves as a stern reminder. I'll leave it at that.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swift Freeze:
There are no reasons why men should be any more important, should hold any more power, should have any sway to make any more decisions than women....

---

posted November 20, 2013 02:44 PM            

One way of assessing how a society or a Nation can act to prevent such acts would be to look at countries with the least cases of sexual assault. And I am not talking of countries that lock up their women or allow marital rape but of free, Democractic Nations with the least cases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

posted November 20, 2013 03:46 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
More common than it seems.

---

posted November 20, 2013 05:16 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

---

posted November 20, 2013 05:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kerosene:
I've even heard some of them say; Oh he's a boy what do you expect....
Really, really?
What am I.. a duck?

---

Kerosene, you totally crack me up with your fiery responses. You Go!

"What am I.. a duck?"
LOL!! Yeah, and a sitting duck at that ... a presumable target ... for subjugation by men ... for no other reason than that of carrying the double X.

posted November 20, 2013 06:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
This is rape culture...the very concept that everything in our society revolves around men. Women in media are sexualised for the pleasure of men and then demonised when they become sexual for their own pleasure - women can be sexy but only if it's for men. Men get off for free while women are asked

What was she wearing?
Why did she go to that party?
Why was she out at night?
How much did she have to drink?

It's sickening and I hate it. And before anyone (aquaguy) comes in and says, "not all men are like that"

[b]That is not the f#cking point

How about you step up your game and say hey, you're right, this isn't an attack on the character of men, this is an attack on the actions of society. Men rape, and everyone knows that not all men are like that, so save it and instead do something helpful.[/B]

---

Absolutely!!

"And before anyone (aquaguy) comes in and says, "not all men are like that"

[b]That is not the f#cking point"
LOVE THIS!!

BTW, Aquaguy did come in and say pretty much that. He missed the most important point, i.e.,

"How about you step up your game and say hey, you're right, this isn't an attack on the character of men, this is an attack on the actions of society. Men rape, and everyone knows that not all men are like that, so save it and instead do something helpful."

Thanks, SExcellent.

posted November 20, 2013 06:47 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Padre35:

Eh, WTH, for the sake of discussion:

-Then put a camera into the brothel where Bieber allegedly went into to partake of their services

-Is the allegation that Bieber hired a prostitute, or that they were their against their will?

-Odd that the concern is over her being drunk, not whether or not if the male was drunk and she quite sober

-OP mentions the US, yet the thread starter mentions a global epidemic, granted the stats are more than likely more solid for the US, yet if one says "global" that would tend to mean "global".

Is a Patriarchal Society necessarily bad/dysfunctional?

Keep in mind, I'm a Saggie, conversations are the soul of our existence.

---

Hiya Padre. I was surprised to be unable to touch your Saggie soul with my lengthy ... er ... conversational rant ... on the rape of women (which I'm sure you're aware is a global problem, regardless of whether or not I posted world statistics).

"-OP mentions the US, yet the thread starter mentions a global epidemic, granted the stats are more than likely more solid for the US, yet if one says "global" that would tend to mean "global"."

Also surprised that you nit picked about the addition of the word "global" in the title and the absence of world statistics. Are you implying that rape is not a global problem?

I did mention that I got the U.S. numbers from Wikipedia. It is the same link that iQ has provided in his post. I didn't think it would be a glaring omission because if anyone to check the stats they could do so themselves. The focus of the thread is not so much the stats (because you'd have to be living under a rock to not know that rape is a major problem for women) but the double standards in society that permit men to behave badly toward women and think that they can get away with rape.

I also said that because I'm living in the U.S., I can only speak for society here (in terms of reasons and causes) but that what I had to say would pretty much apply to men and women everywhere in the world.

"Is a Patriarchal Society necessarily bad/dysfunctional?"
Very much so, since it's the patriarchy that is allowing the double standards to flourish ... mainly rewarding men for bad behavior and holding women to an impossible standard of perfection. The devaluing, de-humanizing (taking the human element away, meaning a woman is not a human being with emotions, but ... just a body), and objectifying of women by society is one of the main reasons men feel they can get away with bad behavior and violence like rape against women.

My personal opinion is that today's society is extremely influenced by the porn industry, and men who take their lessons on how to be men from the porn industry (instead of from good role models in their lives), are the ones who objectify women.

BUT the root cause of all this began several thousand years ago, imo, by the biblical interpretation of the Creation story. And ever since, women have been held responsible for men's downfall.

Additionally, women have also bought into this rubbish which is why we see women blaming other women, and going so far as to actually hold them responsible for being raped. Because according to the Bible the woman is the seducer, right? So whatever, the circumstance, she must have provoked the violence against her by "seducing" the rapist.

"Eh, WTH, for the sake of discussion:"
But you haven't discussed the main point of the thread at all. Seriously, I thought you'd object to my views on the historical cause of women's subjugation as coming from the Bible. Did you even read my entire opening post?

-Then put a camera into the brothel where Bieber allegedly went into to partake of their services

-Is the allegation that Bieber hired a prostitute, or that they were their against their will?"

Really, Padre? Don't you care just a wee bit more about the rape issue than whether or not Justin Bieber actually went to a brothel?

Makes me wonder whether the opening statement of your post ...

"Eh, WTH, for the sake of discussion:"

is meant to convey that you're patronizing this thread and the very serious issue of rape and violence against women.

Remember what I said earlier ...

THINGS MEN CAN DO TO STEP UP AND STOP RAPE:

· Speak Out - against demeaning and aggressive behavior against women. Don't laugh at jokes about violence against women. Speak out against images of women as dehumanized sex objects.

· Talk with People Close to You - start a dialogue about sexual violence or rape. Get different perceptions about this issue and truly listen to what they say on how you can prevent it, and accept that their feelings are real.

· Mentor and Teach Boys - what it means to be a responsible and moral man, who respects others.
************

Which of the above are you contributing to ... may I ask?

.
.
.

posted November 20, 2013 07:10 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[QUOTE]I expected that response but im just asking an important question. How do they know these rapes are happening if they aren't being reported? How can they even put this in statistics? There's no way to know.. I personally think alot of this stuff is nothing more than fear mongering.

---

No it is not fear mongering. If you were a woman you'd know what it is like to carry the constant and hidden fear of being raped throughout your life. And this fear begins at a very young age and continues till death ... regardless of the country the woman grew up in.

On other threads you've described yourself as being physically large and that people would hesitate to mess with you (my interpretation of what you were trying to convey).

Now turn this around and imagine that you did fear others because practically one half of the population was physically bigger and stronger than you. And when you stepped out of your door every morning or even while you were indoors, this is one fear you carried in the back of your mind ... always. And that even friends of the opposite sex that you thought you could trust, could not be trusted (because the majority of rapes are committed by people we know).

And this scenario is up to the point you were not raped. Because after being raped the circumstance for the woman cannot be described in words.

So how would you feel if the society that is affording the other gender all the control and privileges, also give them the power to decide that they'll rape you if they can get the opportunity ... how would you feel?

And what can you (as a man) do to put a stop to this biggest injustice of all against women?

Think Aqua, think. Instead of missing the whole point and being suspicious of the statistics. What in your emotional sensitivity allows for a demand of protection for women from this most heinous of crimes?

I briefly glanced at a thread you started where you said you were contemplating death and attributing this to your 12th hse planets. Well, if having 12th hse planets can make you contemplate death, how much more would being raped make you contemplate death? Ever thought about that?

.
.
.

posted November 20, 2013 07:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 12muddy:
Ah yeah, this hits a sore nerve.

I was born and grew up in Asia and it's bad in my country. It comes from the Confucian teachings that emphasizes female subordination to men.

Was nearly raped twice and harassed on many occasions, just because of my breasts size - "She was flaunting her t*ts". When I was harassed by some boys at school, naturally I objected and got into a fight. The Headmistress punished me but not the boys, coz "Boys will be boys".

Now, from what I've experienced and observed in the western world, it's pretty sad too, but it's good that there are more people who're willing to stand up against misogyny.

---

You're right about your observations, but more, much more needs to be done in terms of awareness and setting a standard of zero tolerance for rape.

Thanks for responding

posted November 20, 2013 07:41 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
It's very difficult for me to even wrap my mind around rape.
I mean I know it's out there and happens all the time. I just... it's one of those things that is so far out there for me I can't even begin to imagine the mindset of a rapist. Do you know what I mean? I'm just like... "WHAT?!"
I don't get how a guy can do that but I know it happens.

I think the statistics are probably from studies. As in, when participants are asked they say, "Yes. I was a victim of rape." Yet, at the time the rape occurred and to this day, they had never reported it to police.
Just anonymously gave the answer to the study group.

I can't recall details but I remember reading about The Democratic Republic Of Congo in Africa. I think it was as recent as early 2000's or late 90's. It was invaded and the invaders were told that for a certain weekend that they could rape any woman that they wanted - and they did. Many thousands of women were raped that weekend. It's still a very large problem there. I watched a documentary about it once too.

Anyway, it's just unbelievable. It truly boggles my mind.

---

Good point about the recording of statistics.

About the incident in Africa ...

Here's the Good Book saying (Deuternonmy --Old Testament)...

"Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife--except abroad. Then you shall put all males to the sword, and the women you shall take as booty to yourself."

This quote is an extreme statement of what is inherent in most social mythologies(the Hebrews were ruthless w.r.t. their neighbors). It means that love and compassion are to be reserved for the in-group and it is permissible to project aggression on the out-group. And if women are part of that out-group ... well, then they are to be treated as chattel and raped.

Do you see the influence of the Holy Book on humans throughout history?

And do you see how the Holy Book has been messing with women's lives for centuries?

posted November 20, 2013 07:44 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Linda Jones,

Aquaguy,

I don´t believe statistics either; however I think the exact percentages is not the core-issue.

Imo one girl (woman) or one boy (man) being raped is one too many.

However, it is also true, that there are many more being raped than those reporting it (to the police).

---

Thanks Ceri!

"Imo one girl (woman) or one boy (man) being raped is one too many."

Yep, that says it all!!

posted November 20, 2013 07:47 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PixieJane:
I got told "boys will be boys," too, but at least I got told thanks by more than one girl.

I was 12, it was a new school, and I wasn't sleeping well so I was in a lousy mood and not going to put up with it that day. I warned him multiple times to stop goosing me but he thought my objecting was hilarious. While going up the stairs I stopped half way up and kicked him in the face causing him to fall all the way down (there were many kids so he didn't fall hard but at the same time the kids also made it too hard for him to stop himself from rolling to the bottom) and then all the kids were laughing at HIM. I got called into the office minutes later where I explained what happened and got told "boys will be boys" and then the principal got mad when I responded, "And girls will be girls." Gods, I was so punished for that, though it's more complicated than that and given how brain drained I feel right now I don't want to get into that. But as so many kids saw what happened it spread through the school like wildfire and many girls appreciated it and told me so. And the boy continued to harass other girls but he never bothered me again.

But after I was the victim of **** rumors just before turning 14 my older male cousin made it clear that if anyone raped me, of any age or profession (including preacher) then he was going to mess him (or them) up so bad they'd commit suicide, and he didn't give a damn if they found Jesus and repented since then. I do believe that's why I wasn't raped. But if I had been I may not have told him because I wouldn't have wanted to lose him (to prison) when I needed him the most.

---

Thanks Pixie for posting.

I'm glad you kicked him at the age of 12. I think all girls should be taught to kick ... strategically.

You're lucky you had your cousin to protect you, though I understand your feelings on not wanting to get him arrested.

posted November 20, 2013 07:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
Two things:

1. Your missing the point (which isn't a surprise, you have the awareness of a cow) if you're blowing things off as "fear mongering"
2. Unreported means unreported to the police. These are estimations but maybe they know these rapes happen because they're reported later? Or someone else reports it for the victim?

Look DeepFreeze is thinking centuries ahead of you!

"I think the statistics are probably from studies. As in, when participants are asked they say, "Yes. I was a victim of rape." Yet, at the time the rape occurred and to this day, they had never reported it to police.
Just anonymously gave the answer to the study group."

It always boggles my mind when the privileged are unable to see their own privilege. Ugh.

---

Excellent points again, Excellent

And I LOVE this--

"It always boggles my mind when the privileged are unable to see their own privilege."

posted November 20, 2013 07:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kerosene:
So my experience never really happened? oh okay..
No I didn't report it because I was 15, stupid, scared, and blackmailed...
Hmm my sister and my best friend, they're also special cases too I suppose.

---

posted November 20, 2013 07:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Odette:
You'll find some answers here aqua:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110523173907AATHeJe

I liked this answer:

[QUOTE]Hospitals and ERs keep track of types of injuries, for one thing. If someone comes in with genital or anal tears or bruising, and asks about STD tests, it's a pretty good bet that this person has been raped/sexually assaulted, even if no rape report is filed. By comparing the number of people who come in with these sort of injuries with the number of rape reports filed with the police, it's pretty easy to estimate how many violent rapes are not reported.

---

posted November 20, 2013 08:02 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Swift Freeze:
This is a serious and massive issue. I 100% believe that the bast majority >80% of cases go unreported for all sorts of reasons. Fear, shame, psychological trauma, emotional trauma. For a lot of people, standing up in public and announcing what happened is frightening, and that is a massive problem.
What should be more frightening is those people being named. There is also a huge issue with the legal system. I'm not against the whole, you need evidence for conviction, and undoubtedly there will be those individuals out there who will make false accusations. Although I like to think they are an incredibly small minority if any at all.

God help me if I ever come across a Rapist, and the pathetic thing is, I would probably go to jail, while they got off with no sentence.

For me, rape and child abuse are the two most sickening things. Murder is a horrifying thing also, but those two get me so angry.

I read a case about a Woman who was raped, she went through the system and when conversing with a police officer about the case, his response was something along the lines of, "I am really sorry, but in all honesty I do not think we have enough evidence to really get a court to convict this man. With that in mind, would you still like to continue this process and formally report the rape and launch an investigation?" The woman declined, and her reasoning was, that she did not want to go through all the emotional and psychological trauma of a trial and hearings, just to see the man not be convicted.

A Patriarchal society is wrong, in my opinion. There are no reasons why men should be any more important, should hold any more power, should have any sway to make any more decisions than women. It is something that has happened over thousands of years. Maybe those men realised that their physical strength was one advantage women did not have. Those men who sought power, used that advantage and to be powerful was to be associated with being strong. Over the years, perhaps that became further blurred, with, to be powerful is to be male. I would say that the way we are built, we are meant to be the protector of our species. Yet this role of protection has been subverted to the role of domination, and that is entirely unhealthy. I'm not saying women are incapable of protecting themselves or others. Only that men have an inherent physical advantage and evolutionary nature to be more aggressive should the need arise.

Society, everyone. Needs to stand up, recognise that this behaviour is unacceptable and everyone needs to speak out against it. It is not okay to, condone, mumble away, or just ignore this behaviour.

This will sound extreme, but if I lived and ran my own world. All rapists would either be incarcerated indefinitely, or executed. All child abusers would just be executed. If you are willing and do abuse someone else's rights and free will in that way. I don't care, I just don't care.

There is little that can be done to help those who report rape. There are reasons why people don't report rape also. Combined, this makes a huge issue for society.

Rape is wrong. There is no, and can never be justification.

No means no. There is no other definition.

---

Excellent post Swift Freeze!

"Yet this role of protection has been subverted to the role of domination, and that is entirely unhealthy."

THIS!!

"Society, everyone. Needs to stand up, recognise that this behaviour is unacceptable and everyone needs to speak out against it. It is not okay to, condone, mumble away, or just ignore this behaviour."

And this!!!

"No means no. There is no other definition."

As well as this!!!