posted November 20, 2013 08:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
All rape is wrong. There are no excuses whatsoever. One rape is one too many.

My heart, however, is foremost with children. No offense. ....

Anyway, children don't have any voice.

I've always said that the path to eradication is for society to not only educate but to also impose harsh penalities. The punishments under US law is a joke. Harsh consequenences are the best deterrent to all crime.

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No offense taken. I deliberately left out rape of children because pedophilia is universally (by both men and women) viewed as heinous. The sticky issue is whether men can support girls and women in the issue of rape. Whether they are even aware that women need their (men's) support. Whether they (the men) can understand that getting caught up in incorrect statistics or lack of the same, or the wording in the title of a thread are really what they should be focusing on.

"Harsh consequenences are the best deterrent to all crime."

My personal opinion of course is that the punishment should fit the crime, i.e., punishments for rape should be equal to punishments handed out to murderers.

For brutal rapists of women and young girls ... there being no hope for rehabilitation ... well they should be chemically castrated (some pedophiles themselves ask for this but the state doesn't administer it) ... and let back out into society, so they can no longer harm anyone else. A painless experience is much more than what they give to their victims.

iQ's idea (an excellent one) is to give them a sex change operation. I think that might end up being too costly for the governments in the long run. So when they're let back out into society they can have the option of coming up with ways to collect public donations for their sex change if they so choose.

posted November 20, 2013 08:21 PM            

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Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
More common than it seems.

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posted November 20, 2013 08:23 PM            

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Originally posted by iQ:
Rape is the worst epidemic in India. At least the women in Western Countries have a fighting chance to fend off with Tasers, guns and Pepper Sprays. In India, the only way to protect women from rape would be for Vigilantes to begin their duty Frank "Punisher" Castle style....

One way of assessing how a society or a Nation can act to prevent such acts would be to look at countries with the least cases of sexual assault. And I am not talking of countries that lock up their women or allow marital rape but of free, Democractic Nations with the least cases.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics

Armenia, Iceland, Malta, Slovenia, Latvia, Estonia, Macedonia and Luxemborg have the least occurrences of rape in the World. [ Andorra, Liechtenstein and Monaco are just too small but still well done]. Sweden has more than 6000 cases a year, which was shocking. Was also shocked to see the cases skyrocket in Peru, South Africa and USA, I thought India was the worst case. But the way things are now, India might beat USA in this ignominy.

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posted November 20, 2013 08:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meissieri:
(Edited)

I do want to post something here, but as usual I'm very slow to reply and so I hope nobody would mind.

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Take your time, Meissieri. No one minds. I'm keen to read what you have to say.

This is a difficult topic to discuss openly and I want to encourage everyone to put their hesitation aside and speak up. Because unless we do, this injustice will continue for another thousand years.
.

posted November 20, 2013 08:27 PM            

I've also been physically forced into having sex with a guy I was seeing. I eventually relented so technically it wasn't rape. So I now believe that every man is a potential rapist.

posted November 20, 2013 08:33 PM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Just so you know one serial rapist was castrated by vigilante deputies and he continued to rape using foreign objects.

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Then all I can think of is the giving of punishments that equal the killing/murder of someone.

Either that or a complete lobotomy of the primitive part of the brain (responsible for functions like eating, sex, and material power like wealth, as well as the fight or flight response in humans).

The primitive part is the one that is nestled under the cortex (the seat of reasoning). I think that should be left intact even though there's every likelihood that reasoning ability in such people is probably defunct.
.

posted November 20, 2013 08:35 PM            

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
If I have a daughter, she would be an expert at martial arts.

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posted November 20, 2013 08:39 PM            

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Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
:/ it strikes a chord but I'd rather not talk about it.

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No worries, Doux. Thanks for posting. And I want to say Hi since I've not talked with you for a while ... well with most everyone actually since I've been so busy. Barely had time for only my Kundalini thread over in UC and a couple in Asteroids.

posted November 20, 2013 08:40 PM            

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Originally posted by ail221:
Lawd dont get me started on rape culture its ridiculous. Great thread LindaJones.

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posted November 20, 2013 08:49 PM            

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Originally posted by Aquacheeka:
I didn't used to believe the statistics until I found out my mom was raped in the 70's, my friend was drugged and raped by a guy she was going to sleep with anyway (men get off on female helplessness), and HER friend was raped on prom night by a whole group of boys she'd gone to school with since elementary school and thus trusted.

I've also been physically forced into having sex with a guy I was seeing. I eventually relented so technically it wasn't rape. So I now believe that every man is a potential rapist.

Oh, and I'm not sure that any of these were reported. All but the girl raped by several of her peers I know were not.

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Hiya Aquacheeka! Thank you for posting your personal experiences! It means a lot that you can come out say it. My heart goes out to you for your being forced, and it also makes me angry (it angers me to think that ANY man would try and force, manipulate, and drug a woman to humiliate her in the worst way ... just to get his jollies!)

Technically it may not be rape but morally, ethically, and in every other way it IS rape. This is what happens in marital rape.

And this is why we need to talk about it openly so that more women can be informed about saying "no means no"

posted November 20, 2013 08:55 PM            

I've gotta go now, but before I leave I wanted to ask what you all think about the effect the Old Testament has had on women's lives leading up to today.

Do you think the Bible is responsible for quite a bit of distortion especially when it comes to the treatment of women.

Do you think men are unthinkingly taking their cues from the Good Book on how to treat women ... women being chattel, etc.?

What else do you think can be done to stop rape of women and girls in society today?

What can be done to stop the double standards in society ... their continuance being the main reason for heinous crimes of violence against women?

posted November 21, 2013 03:11 AM            

Yes, some Christians are misogynists and the Bible has an effect on THEM and they use it as a tool to try to spread their misogyny to their kids and to society, but these days the Bible is more of a cafeteria, they take what they want from it and ignore the rest (while pretending to be fully in accordance with the Bible). As frustrating as that segment is if you make people defensive about the Bible is that you're going to alienate people who would otherwise be on your side on this so one thing to do is not to do so unless someone says "well the Bible says women are weak and evil" (granted, few will be so crass, but the ones who use the Bible to justify their misogyny are pretty obvious despite their objections and "being sneaky" about it IMO).

posted November 21, 2013 03:30 AM            

Plenty of boys really want to do the right thing. I've played with them children and they weren't all just raging fighters who figured might makes right (only a few were like that and the ones who were often had parents with that same attitude), when someone played the bad guy they were expected to lose, I think the ones playing the villains even wanted to lose in the end (after a good fight of course). Most of them don't want to just be the biggest bad ass they can be, they want to be HEROES, the good guys who are admired & respected instead of feared. You can even see it in their entertainment (like say Harry Potter), and bullies who just try to be right through might without character or ethics are generally reviled, ironically more by the kids (who know so well when "it's not fair") than by many adults who have gotten used to the unfairness of the world (and rather kids not inconvenience them with the problems of kids).

posted November 21, 2013 06:14 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
All rape is wrong. There are no excuses whatsoever. One rape is one too many.

My heart, however, is foremost with children. No offense. Children cannot defend themselves, verbally or otherwise. At least the 19th Amendment gives women a voice.

The August 18, 1920 ratification unfortunately needed Tennessee's vite as the 36th State, and the state legislature debate caused a circus, but that was just the way the Constitution was drafted. Nothing that complex can be perfect.

Anyway, children don't have any voice.

I've always said that the path to eradication is for society to not only educate but to also impose harsh penalities. The punishments under US law is a joke. Harsh consequenences are the best deterrent to all crime.

My sons don't ever misbehave... ever... because they are brought up properly, educated, and because they know what's coming to them. The threat of overwhelming force serves as a stern reminder. I'll leave it at that.

Is that true any longer? There are more than enough alpha female personalities in my life, including and especially my wife. Power lies in the hands of the competent and those willing to capitalize on it. Outside of an abusive situation like rape, physical strength has nothing to do with power.

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I am 100% with you on everything you said. I don't believe it is true any longer, Women are just as capable of being the 'ones in power' or having the same power and responsibility as men. Physical strength has nothing to do with power, and I don't think it ever should do. There is no reason that throughout the ages, Women should never have been castigated and relegated as second class to men, ever, for any reason.

Quite frankly, any Man that does not speak out and openly oppose Rape, well I would have serious doubts about them.

posted November 21, 2013 08:43 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Swift Freeze:
I am 100% with you on everything you said. I don't believe it is true any longer, Women are just as capable of being the 'ones in power' or having the same power and responsibility as men. Physical strength has nothing to do with power, and I don't think it ever should do. There is no reason that throughout the ages, Women should never have been castigated and relegated as second class to men, ever, for any reason.

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posted November 21, 2013 08:57 AM            

I'm sorry that the Good Word is repeatedly perverted. People fundamentally fall short of any standard of righteousness and do not measure up to the standards set forth in the Bible. I apologize for that.

I am pretty much a life long Christian, and it was a conscious choice on my part independent of my parents, who were Christians long after I became one. My boys were born and raised Christians. We are firm advocates against all forms of rape. Men are wretched. God is good. Any "Christian" who claims to be so damn righteous and knows God's Will ought to take a long walk off a short pier. Perhaps, since the guy is so righteous, he can also walk on water.

Where I grew up, the laws were very strict. For example, a couple guys coped a fondle on a woman's behind in a bar and were sentenced to years of prison and canning. That's just the outrage of a woman's modesty, never mind rape, which entails decades of imprisonment. In my view, it's rough trying to fundamentally change serial rapists and that's what it entails.

If the government were to impose a $1,000 fine for every mile an hour I exceed the speed limit, you can be sure I would drive 50 mph on a 55 mph highway. Instead, everyone this morning drove 70+ mph on a 55 mph highway and I got honked for going too slowly in the slow lane at 65 mph on a 55 mph highway. $200 tickets for speeding are a joke, just like probation and "good behavior" early release for rape.

posted November 21, 2013 11:30 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Linda Jones,

I'm sorry that the Good Word is repeatedly perverted. People fundamentally fall short of any standard of righteousness and do not measure up to the standards set forth in the Bible. I apologize for that.

I am pretty much a life long Christian, and it was a conscious choice on my part independent of my parents, who were Christians long after I became one. My boys were born and raised Christians. We are firm advocates against all forms of rape. Men are wretched. God is good. Any "Christian" who claims to be so damn righteous and knows God's Will ought to take a long walk off a short pier. Perhaps, since the guy is so righteous, he can also walk on water.

Where I grew up, the laws were very strict. For example, a couple guys coped a fondle on a woman's behind in a bar and were sentenced to years of prison and canning. That's just the outrage of a woman's modesty, never mind rape, which entails decades of imprisonment. In my view, it's rough trying to fundamentally change serial rapists and that's what it entails.

If the government were to impose a $1,000 fine for every mile an hour I exceed the speed limit, you can be sure I would drive 50 mph on a 55 mph highway. Instead, everyone this morning drove 70+ mph on a 55 mph highway and I got honked for going too slowly in the slow lane at 65 mph on a 55 mph highway. $200 tickets for speeding are a joke, just like probation and "good behavior" early release for rape.

Therefore, if only people cared more about the rights of victims rather than the rights of criminals, I think society would be safer.

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Are you kidding me? What year are you living in, 1979? Right-wing politicians have been pulling this line of "stop punishing the victims!" to great profit and power for the past 30 years, so what on earth are you talking about?

Not to mention that crime rates are at an historic low, or hadn't you noticed?

posted November 21, 2013 11:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Linda Jones:
No worries, Doux. Thanks for posting. And I want to say Hi since I've not talked with you for a while ... well with most everyone actually since I've been so busy. Barely had time for only my Kundalini thread over in UC and a couple in Asteroids.

Hope you're doing well? Good to know some of the members from last year are still around

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Thanks for remembering me, Linda.
It's nice to see you post again (although this topic is really, really sensitive for me - that's why I don't comment on it much).

I'm not doing well, no. For the most part precisely because of what we're discussing here, but there are many other things. I'm about to get help though so hopefully I'll get better.

posted November 21, 2013 12:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by page one:
Are you kidding me? What year are you living in, 1979? Right-wing politicians have been pulling this line of "stop punishing the victims!" to great profit and power for the past 30 years, so what on earth are you talking about?

Not to mention that crime rates are at an historic low, or hadn't you noticed?

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One crime is one crime too many. No statistic can justify the presence of any crime, whether decreasing or not (which it isn't).

If you get rid of habitual criminals, there will be little crime. Period.

Death for wrongful death. Life for armed anything. A generation for rape. A decade for felony. Crime will pretty much grind to a halt.

posted November 21, 2013 12:58 PM            

After comparing several official methods for counting rape and sexual assault, the panel discovered major inconsistencies in national data.

The focal point of the study was the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) -- an annual crime report conducted through household surveys by the U.S. Census Bureau for the Bureau of Justice Statistics -- which counted 188,380 victims of rape and sexual assault in 2010. Another data source, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, counted nearly 1.3 million incidents that same year. Data from the FBI, which gathers its statistics on rape or attempted rape reported as a crime by local law enforcement, counted only 85,593 in 2010.

Either someone's not counting properly, or there's a problem with the methods of collecting and analyzing data about rapes.

The study, published Tuesday, was prompted by the Bureau of Justice Statistics, which asked the National Research Council to investigate concerns that the number of rape and sexual assault victims are being miscalculated and to recommend best practices for measuring rape in household surveys conducted by the NCVS.

“We all know that rape and sexual assault are the most underreported crimes in the world, and it’s very hard to say that the problem is declining," Christopher Krebs, a sexual violence researcher at nonprofit research institute RTI International, told Slate this week. "The NCVS data could be missing a lot.”

In its report, the National Research Council panel recommended several methods to curb the inaccuracies in the NCVS.

For one, the NCVS does not stress privacy while conducting in-house interviews to gather its statistics on rape. This could prove problematic in instances where a family member is the abuser. Approximately two-thirds of rapes occur by someone known to the victim, according to NCVS data from 2005. If the abuser were within earshot of the interviewee, the victim might be reluctant to speak up, the panel's recent report said.

“Don’t get me wrong the [NCVS] is fabulous," Candace Kruttschnitt, a co-chair of the panel and a University of Toronto sociology professor, told The Huffington Post over the phone. "The victimization survey is critical in establishing the extent of underreported crime in the country, but for the purpose of measuring rape, the design is inefficient."

The panel’s report offers alternative methods to fix the NCVS' privacy issue.

“You could use a computer-assisted method that increases privacy. The big issue with NCVS is making sure that everyone in the house doesn’t get the same set of questions,” Kruttschnitt said. “Let’s say, your father abused you and he gets the same questions.”

However, interview technique is not the only obstacle crippling data accuracy.

A major conflict between different surveys is the lack of a uniform definition of rape -- specifically one that truly reflects the nature of sexual assault for all genders.

The CDC's definition of rape “represents the public health perspective” and takes into account the ability of the victim to consent to sex because he or she had been drinking or taking drugs.

But the NCVS' definition omits consideration for drugs or alcohol:

Rape includes psychological coercion as well as physical force. Forced sexual intercourse means vaginal, anal, oral penetration by the offender(s). It also includes incidents in which the penetration is by a foreign object. It includes attempted rapes, male as well as female victims, and both heterosexual and homosexual rape.

It wasn't until December 2011 that the FBI changed its 80-year-old definition of rape from the "carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will" to “Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

The National Research Council panel's report offers an array of plans to solve the issue of defining rape. One plan suggested reframing the way rape is discussed in the household survey, which currently treats it as a crime and which might deter some victims from speaking up.

"To more accurately measure when and how these victimizations occur, we recommend a separate survey that is focused on these specific crimes within a public health context and targets those most at risk for sexual violence,” William Kalsbeek, a co-chair of the panel and a professor of biostatistics at the University of North Carolina, said in a statement released by the National Research Council.

Kruttschnitt is confident the panel's results will have an impact.

posted November 21, 2013 06:01 PM            

This is no exaggeration. if you live here and are a woman and you have not been raped, you will almost certainly personally know someone close to you who has been (same goes for car hijacking). Two of my friends have been raped in the last five years. One was chopping firewood in her garden, when a stranger grabbed her axe and threatened her into submission before raping her. The other was walking to her car with her daughter when a stranger caught her and stabbed her in her side, before ripping off her jeans and cutting her like an episiotomy, then raping her while her daughter watched. Fortuately none of them died.

It is sad that women here end up not being able to walk around alone - a walk along a deserted beach is unthinkable, even driving alone esp at night is scary.

Taking public transport is a huge risk, and I am always worrying about my female staff members who may have to walk on the street in the evening. At work we do focus on the problem by offering courses on sexual harassment, and we include violence against women campaigns as part of our social awareness programs, but it its clear we still have a long way to go.