posted December 03, 2013 01:15 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Nailed it . That's what I have been saying forever! If a girl came on here and posted everything I have ever posted about my troubles with girls (except in this case they would be talking about guy troubles) the response would be completely different. They would be met with sympathy and understanding but since I'm a guy I'm automatically a misogynist. Lol

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Don't break your arm slapping yourself on the back just yet AG, there are times and things you do that legitimately deserve both criticism and advice on how to correct the problem(s).

You skipped the part where you thinking women are men with breasts and think and act like YOU would is a colossal mistake and misjudgment on your part.

I really do not think you realize that is what you are doing, instead of honest introspection one is taking on a persecution complex.

You roll up and are like "This is SPARRRRTTAAAA" and the poor women is just trying to have a bit of fun and perhaps chat or dance or whatever, and one wonders why your love train rolls off of the tracks.

And then you take it as a personal insult when whichever female is just not into you!
Granted, I find it personally entertaining, still, think the world would be a better place if one realized that is what you are doing, over and over and over and over and over again.

posted December 03, 2013 01:26 AM            

quote:

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women are not men with breasts, things are different for them and for us.

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Well we're all humans/animals.. so we have a lot in common as well

Sometimes over-emphasising the differences can lead to other problems.
http://www.apa.org/research/action/difference.aspx

quote:

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Media depictions of men and women as fundamentally "different" appear to perpetuate misconceptions - despite the lack of evidence. The resulting "urban legends" of gender difference can affect men and women at work and at home, as parents and as partners. As an example, workplace studies show that women who go against the caring, nurturing feminine stereotype may pay dearly for it when being hired or evaluated.

And when it comes to personal relationships, best-selling books and popular magazines often claim that women and men don't get along because they communicate too differently. Hyde suggests instead that men and women stop talking prematurely because they have been led to believe that they can't change supposedly "innate" sex-based traits.

Hyde has observed that children also suffer the consequences of exaggerated claims of gender difference -- for example, the widespread belief that boys are better than girls in math. However, according to her meta-analysis, boys and girls perform equally well in math until high school, at which point boys do gain a small advantage. That may not reflect biology as much as social expectations, many psychologists believe. For example, the original Teen Talk Barbie ™, before she was pulled from the market after consumer protest, said, "Math class is tough."
As a result of stereotyped thinking, mathematically talented elementary-school girls may be overlooked by parents who have lower expectations for a daughter's success in math. Hyde cites prior research showing that parents' expectations of their children's success in math relate strongly to the children's self-confidence and performance.

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posted December 03, 2013 01:29 AM            

quote:

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You roll up and are like "This is SPARRRRTTAAAA" and the poor women is just trying to have a bit of fun

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posted December 03, 2013 01:33 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
Padre -

I would say.... JUST - Treat others the same way you would like to be treated - whether they are men or women.

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Well, sort of, after all one does not really want to be indifferent to someone one is attracted to and who is available!

Well, you do and you don't that is to say.

To me, just go out and have fun doing whatever it is, the best pickup line is to introduce yourself with a "Hi, my name is padre, noticed you had X" make an obeservation and chat for just a bit..and withdraw and see what happens

posted December 03, 2013 01:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
Padre -

Well we're all humans/animals.. so we have a lot in common as well

Sometimes over-emphasising the differences can lead to other problems.
http://www.apa.org/research/action/difference.aspx

[QUOTE]
[b]Media depictions of men and women as fundamentally "different" appear to perpetuate misconceptions - despite the lack of evidence. The resulting "urban legends" of gender difference can affect men and women at work and at home, as parents and as partners. As an example, workplace studies show that women who go against the caring, nurturing feminine stereotype may pay dearly for it when being hired or evaluated.

And when it comes to personal relationships, best-selling books and popular magazines often claim that women and men don't get along because they communicate too differently. Hyde suggests instead that men and women stop talking prematurely because they have been led to believe that they can't change supposedly "innate" sex-based traits.

Hyde has observed that children also suffer the consequences of exaggerated claims of gender difference -- for example, the widespread belief that boys are better than girls in math. However, according to her meta-analysis, boys and girls perform equally well in math until high school, at which point boys do gain a small advantage. That may not reflect biology as much as social expectations, many psychologists believe. For example, the original Teen Talk Barbie ™, before she was pulled from the market after consumer protest, said, "Math class is tough."
As a result of stereotyped thinking, mathematically talented elementary-school girls may be overlooked by parents who have lower expectations for a daughter's success in math. Hyde cites prior research showing that parents' expectations of their children's success in math relate strongly to the children's self-confidence and performance.

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Now to me, Hyde is suggesting that societal expectations of behavior are unfounded, I'd tend to agree, however when it comes to the brain itself, yes, wired differently

And different when it comes to attraction:

quote:

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"The sound of someone's voice can affect how we think of them. Until now, it's been unclear why women would like the voices of men who might cheat.

But we found that the more women thought these men would cheat, the more they were attracted to them for a brief relationship when they are less worried about fidelity."

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Won't rehash the OKCupid study where the female members of the board, in massive majorities, thought the men there were not attractive..based on a picture.

posted December 03, 2013 01:55 AM            

Because as a woman I don’t feel very different to the men around me.
I feel similarities and differences with others – more so based on personality, maybe culture – rather than gender.

posted December 03, 2013 02:40 AM            

quote:

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women can relate to other women and men to other men

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I mean I can think of at least a handful of men I relate to based on culture for instance. My background is Central European.. and I feel like I have more things in common with men who share my background - than I do with women from other backgrounds... when it comes to romance & sex.

Opinions were divided in this thread anyway. No two women that I recall held the same opinion.

Hannah and I were in Aqua's camp.. for different reasons. :edit: And so was Ami actually.
Someone else - I think it was Hapless thought Aqua went overboard and should've played it cool.. and Faith thinks Aqua is generally sexist and that he is unnecessarily putting this girl down.
SomethingExcellent and Kero are men and generally they disagree with Aqua and never relate to any of his opinions.. That has also been the case in this thread.

posted December 03, 2013 05:53 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Removed
Shouldn't have gotten involved.

(I didn't leave a bad reply for you Odette. Just to be clear. I see your point. The point I don't see is why to continue with this.)

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posted December 03, 2013 07:13 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
Padre - Do you personally actually feel very different to most of the women you know?

Because as a woman I don’t feel very different to the men around me.
I feel similarities and differences with others – more so based on personality, maybe culture – rather than gender.

I’m generally happy and comfortable around men and I feel like we have so much in common, purely in virtue of being human. I mean there are gender-based differences - but they don’t strike me as extra important.

Intuitively I would say I have about 80% commonalities with the average guy - just because we are members of the same species (in terms of desires, needs, expectations, daily highs and lows etc) - and 20% differences based on biological & neurological discrepancies as well as nurture.
This only applies to men brought up in a similar culture to my own.

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Odette, the difference in this discussion is we are chatting about a very narrow spectrum of male/female relationships, plutonic or not.

thrust of my argument is when it comes to attraction/dating/sex/relationships, yes, both halves think very differently in pretty much every aspect of that spectrum.

To put a number on it, I'd say more 60%-40% in general, when it comes to the above, 40%-60%

In general, this past week featured the Friday sales, who does one suppose made up the bulk of those out looking for those bargains and waiting in long lines to save 8 dollars each for 6 shirts shirt? Who more than likely would hours in long lines to buy a game console?

posted December 03, 2013 09:29 AM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:

What makes you think I'm lying? I'm many things but I'm not a liar.

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For one thing, many of your stories have this "and it turned out she was lying all along" twist at the end. And basically you reveal that at a predictable point in the conversation...when things heat up against you. So it just strikes me as, like, the ace you keep up your sleeve.

When I marvelled that you had access to her FB beforehand but didn't check it, you just said that you like to give people the benefit of the doubt.

This sounds fake.

Why?

Because it was a tacit acknowledgement that you had that access before you asked her out. In order for you to get that access:

a) She had to give you the link to her FB page.

Then, "I like to give people the benefit of the doubt" doesn't make sense. It would have been kind of you to look at a page she invited you to look at, not like spying or trying to uncover dirt.

But she wouldn't have given you the link to her page, seeing as how she is advertising there that she has a boyfriend. So...

b) You looked up her FB page on your own before asking her out.

In that case, seriously, you didn't happen to notice her relationship status on her page, which must be set for public viewing, when you checked to see if she was on FB?

But let's just say you only got her FB page after the fact. Then we know she's easy to find on FB. If that's the case, isn't she QUITE silly to be flirting with you, giving you her real name (INVITING background checks, in other words) while publicly advertising that she has a boyfriend?

And if she's just in this for the ego boost, it's likely she's doing the same exact thing with other men. Again, putting her real name out there and waiting to get caught.

IF a girl is that dumb, and that is REALLY super dumb, then I doubt she would have been interesting enough to sustain your interest, AG, and compel you to ask her out.

Because in spite of seeming desperate here sometimes, you are actually very picky and have a history of rejecting perfectly viable prospects. So if she was acting as dumb as she would have to be in the above scenario, I think it's improbable you would have liked her.

posted December 03, 2013 09:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Removed
Shouldn't have gotten involved.

(I didn't leave a bad reply for you Odette. Just to be clear. I see your point. The point I don't see is why to continue with this.)

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posted December 03, 2013 10:36 AM            

quote:

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no, I just wanted a straight answer lmao. I hate dishonesty and "idk " is a dishonest answer. I don't even know why people try to fool each other with silly crap like that. Everyone knows "idk" or other noncommittal answers means no 99% of the time, so why not just come right out and say it? Lol

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What's so wrong with an "idk"? How is that dishonest??? There are times when someone just doesn't know.

You automatically assume she was being "noncomittal" or playing games. Or "trying to fool you with silly crap".

Maybe she really didnt know if she wanted to go out with you yet? Is that so hard to fathom?

Why do you so quickly jump the gun and label her as being dishonest? You quickly assume she's trying to play games with you and gruffily tell her you want a straight answer NOW. Like, make up your damn mind b*tch. That's how it comes across in your initial post.

It's no surprise you didnt hear back from her. You sound aggressive and potentially scary saying:

" look I get led on by women all the time and I never get straight answers. So I would really appreciate it if you wouldn't do me that way. Do you want to go out Saturday or not?""

Maybe she wanted to get to know you more first and was in fact unsure if she wanted to meet you yet. And there is nothing wrong with that.

quote:

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Why lead me on when you have no intention to follow through?

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Lead you on? By getting to know you thru text/online? Sounds like this all happened within a few short days (going by your initial post) and you quickly demand she give you an answer to meet up.

Going by what you wrote in your first post, I'd be scared to meet you too. And scared to say something like "Hell no. I"m all set." Who knows how you might react? The vibe from you seems angry and pushy and frustrated. I'd quietly slip away and not respond either.

She may have been thinking about it but not ready yet. Then you blew it by demanding an answer and giving away that you are bitter saying you get led on all the time and never get straight answers.

posted December 03, 2013 10:45 AM            

quote:

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For one thing, many of your stories have this "and it turned out she was lying all along" twist at the end. And basically you reveal that at a predictable point in the conversation...when things heat up against you. So it just strikes me as, like, the ace you keep up your sleeve.

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quote:

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This sounds fake.

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You read my mind Faith. It's always the same story, with a slightly different twist.

posted December 03, 2013 11:02 AM            

That ought to slam the lid on the discussion.

posted December 03, 2013 11:32 AM            

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To me AG, real talk, I'm amazed that the women who offer advice to you here are as patient as they have been with your issues. ~Padre

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posted December 03, 2013 11:32 AM            

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Originally posted by T:
Not really. It can still be used as a good learning experience for ag. Since we have heard this kind of story time and time again from him. This time the story ends with her being a "philanderer". So, what? That's on her and it's besides the point, really.

He can choose to be come more bitter and use this as another great example and as an "I told you so!" and a way lump all women together in his own mind, or take a step back and find out why all the women he comes across happen to be "playing games with him".

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Exactly!

It's not that AG ran into a woman screwing around on PoF, it's more he should just take it as a lesson and keep an open mind about it all.

There are reasons why love is compared to war, or a game, b/c you win some, you lose some, that is the nature of it all.

posted December 03, 2013 11:45 AM            

(I guess it's not Part of Fortune,hehe.)

posted December 03, 2013 11:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ellynlvx:
What's PoF?

(I guess it's not Part of Fortune,hehe.)

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posted December 03, 2013 12:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by T:
and YTA, re: what you wrote in the Venting thread about people "picking on ag". Come on guy. You are more perceptive than that and you know that's not what's going on. I don't have anything against the guy and don't think anyone else does either. We are sharing our thoughts in hopes that it will help him or open his eyes up.

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T, you rule! Thanks for all your input, and this right comment above says it all.

None of us hates AG, we just want him to snap out of it, for his own sake.

Maybe it's a bitter pill to swallow, but it's intended for medicine, honest!

@Padre

posted December 03, 2013 01:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by T:
and YTA, re: what you wrote in the Venting thread about people "picking on ag". Come on guy. You are more perceptive than that and you know that's not what's going on. I don't have anything against the guy and don't think anyone else does either. We are sharing our thoughts in hopes that it will help him or open his eyes up.

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I appreciate that. However, he has his own lessons to learn in due course in his own time. No amount of sharing is going to change him fundamentally, and whatever you share, as valuable as it is, is ultimately up to him to absorb.

We can't make a horse drink from the fountain of knowledge. We can lead the horse to the water, which your goodselves have been doing.