posted May 16, 2014 05:54 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b]Ami, you have a good point. But be honest, would you have suggested this if I hadn't brought up that I was bullied? I doubt so right now.

Well, I just get the sense that you have a lot of unresolved issues about bullying and it would help you to deal with those.

[/B]

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You sensed that right. It is a pretty bad trigger because I know what it's like to be truly helpless - or at least feel that way. But even back then, I reacted in a way that egged them on even more. Even then I wasn't 100% innocent, though of course I didn't ask for it.

So this does affect me still, I agree. I am working on it because yeah of course it would definitely help.

posted May 16, 2014 06:03 PM            

We have to unfreeze. The only way to unfreeze is to put yourself out there and be real. You will prolly be hurt, look stupid and feel humiliated but you will grow.

You need a few people who are on your side, too, and whom you can trust.

There is no pristine way to change these things. That is why being in a community can help you grow. The bullies can learn not to bully and the victims can learn to stand up.

That is why a Mod breathing down your neck will prevent learning.

However, if it gets vicious a Mod has to step in but short of that, people should learn their lessons and we all have them imo

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posted May 16, 2014 06:05 PM            

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Originally posted by 7thGuardian:
And that goes against a personal rule of mine - "don't waste your time trying to help the ones that don't want to be helped - not only that they won't appreciate it - they might even spit in your face for trying (another lesson i've learned the hard way)". That being said - "live and let live" - i can do that too.

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posted May 16, 2014 06:07 PM            

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Originally posted by Faith:
Kero's just a kid. Clever guy, a bit hot under the collar sometimes, drunk sometimes, whatever...we all saw the same things. He can't be changed by gossip.

Like DF said, it doesn't really bother me...I trust others' judgement, though I understand that others cannot know all the history of the contention between myself and Ami. Maybe things will get clearer in time? Or maybe not? Welcome to the jungle...I mean, forum life.

Keep your head up.

PS If it sounds like I am counselling you, sorry, I keep thinking "I'm the sun, she's the moon, I gotta show her how it's done." ROTFL

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Ahhh but can't I be annoyed on your behalf? The moon person tends to want to look out for the sun, y'know ^^
No worried about sounding like counselling. That's one of the good things about Sweet Peas

quote:

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Pshaw! Aquaguy didn't understand something I said and got angry. It was truly based on a misunderstanding. I thought it was funny that he lost his cool...when he does, he REALLY goes for broke. LOL

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Yeah, those misunderstandings can get ugly. For what it's worth, I thought your initiative of an open thread to explain yourself was brave. You sounded level-headed to me. Very Cappy

quote:

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I think ganging up sort of happens naturally when people just agree that a negative aspect about a person exists; it becomes part of the dialogue, almost inevitably. Like I'm kinda belligerent sometimes, and here we have a thread discussing my tendencies along these lines...I don't perceive it as ganging up when people allude to my being this way. I AM this way. So there's no reality check or hurt feelings, it's just...

This is me. Kinda mouthy now and then. I do try to be very deliberate with my words but...with out of bounds Gemini Mars trine 3H Pluto, ASC on the Mars-Pluto MP...people are going to notice that.

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Yeah, and you're handling it pretty well just by acknowledging it right here.

I get that it's tough to hear about a bad trait a lot - and emphasize - especially when it's not something you want to admit yet. Or didn't think you were.

posted May 16, 2014 06:14 PM            

Gotta get back to that attitude. Thanks.

And yes, you got exactly what I meant. Some of these fights were not so black and white. I'm glad you feel I'm in tune... I did get the sense there was more to it than just some members being seen as mean, especially when reading things again.

posted May 16, 2014 06:18 PM            

Next ones will take a while, just so you guys know.

posted May 16, 2014 06:27 PM            

I understand that many workshops against bullying equate fights, hazing, and shunning with bullying and I've felt that was wrong. Bullying is a systematic torment that chases people who are trying to get away or hide, not a heated exchange or even just snapping in a bad mood, and that's true OL or off. I don't blame kids who go to those workshops and leave thinking the adults are completely clueless to the reality of their lives (especially when it also ignores favoritism, arbitrary enforcement of the rules, etc).

I've endured shunning and while unpleasant (though at least I almost always had one close friend) it didn't terrorize me. Bullying was hunting me down even when I ran and hid, and it was started by them every time because I didn't dare go near them and ignored them as best I could when I couldn't (which they'd make it impossible to ignore them if they could). I acted out just to be locked up so they couldn't get me.

Cyberbullying wouldn't be cussing out each other online but going after someone with photoshopped pix and publicly trashing that person repeatedly when that person isn't there for that person to see rather than cussing each other out. It would definitely include sending text & email that was done "just because" and only meant to degrade that person as opposed to replying to a contradictory opinion with mud slinging.

Likewise, neither is it the same as hazing since hazing is actually a form of acceptance and temporary with the person being hazed knowing that after this is done it's done and s/he will be doing it to someone else later on. Granted, hazing "freshmen" can easily cross the line into true bullying.

posted May 16, 2014 06:31 PM            

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Originally posted by meissieri:
Ahhh but can't I be annoyed on your behalf? The moon person tends to want to look out for the sun, y'know

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Thank you for this and your other comments. I wasn't sure what you meant with this thread, thought you might be looking for further apologies or explanations from me (???) which I would gladly give you, moon dear as soon as I understand clearly what you're looking for!

posted May 16, 2014 06:34 PM            

Yes, if people don't want your help and make it clear, it is hubris on your part to keep pushing your advice when the person has said( or implied) they don't want it.

For me, I only take advice from people I respect.

If not, I ignore.

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posted May 16, 2014 06:35 PM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
And just for the record I'm only aware of one person on LL (who practices favoritism when deciding how to classify someone's behavior) who likes to call me a bully but I tend to skip her threads and often even posts so if she (or anyone else) has called me a bully recently then I don't know about it.

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posted May 16, 2014 06:38 PM            

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posted May 17, 2014 12:04 AM            

I think that second guessing ourselves is beneficial at times, and at other times I think we're aware enough of our own issues to make an unbiased observation.

That's from personal experience, anyway. Keep on keepin' on. I'm very glad that you're still posting here.

posted May 17, 2014 07:15 AM            

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posted May 17, 2014 08:49 AM            

You can stop acting chummy with people who you KNOW aren't your chums, quite the opposite...you put them in a position where they either have to look rude and correct you, or just let the illusion stand, that you two are friendlier than you are. Either way, you are setting them up.

I hate to be complicit in these illusions you are trying to pass off on others who don't know us any better, but sometimes, when I ignore you, that's what it ends up becoming. That's why I didn't let you lecture me last night. I'm not going to even passively play the role of student when you assume the role of teacher, I'm not going to let you use my silence as proof that I take my directions from you.

I don't want to have to keep highlighting all the ways you are sneaky and fake.

posted May 17, 2014 09:04 AM            

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Originally posted by Sibyl:
^ I have to admit. I don't understand.

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Just ignore, S!

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posted May 17, 2014 09:06 AM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:

Just ignore, S!

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I don't WANT that comment I made to be ignored.

Stop telling people to ignore me.

posted May 17, 2014 09:09 AM            

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Originally posted by hannaramaa:
I skipped everything in this thread except the OP, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who wonders why the same fights keep happening. Nobody is going anywhere so why not ignore it? It's a great example of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

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The "let's ignore each other and pretend that everything is fine" type of attitude - is exactly why they are still happening. This worked only when "ignorance was bliss" - but once things became clearer - you either deal with them" to be able to move on" - or you force yourself to ignore them - and they'll keep coming out with every chance they get. Then there's the "suppression" - like closing topics as a way to suppress an unwanted truth - which only makes things worse (since suppression - leads to "resentment").

posted May 17, 2014 09:13 AM            

If you can't ignore, every jerk who comes your way will pull your chain.

LL is a microcosm of the world. If you can't cope on LL, there is no way you will be able to in real life.

Hence, one can learn life skills, like ignoring, on LL.

I am all about mentoring people like I was mentored and I try to lead by example, as well.
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posted May 17, 2014 09:15 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by 7thGuardian:
The "let's ignore each other and pretend that everything is fine" type of attitude - is exactly why they are still happening. This worked only when "ignorance was bliss" - but once things became clearer - you either deal with them" to be able to move on" - or you force yourself to ignore them - and they'll keep coming out with every chance they get. Then there's the "suppression" - like closing topics as a way to suppress an unwanted truth - which only makes things worse (since suppression - leads to "resentment").

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ETA:

Truth is, many many people have expressed not only discontent but outright astonishment that someone as meddlesome and passive-aggressive as Ami is stationed at the helm here.

It's so weird that it becomes a focal point, like a freak show at the circus.

It takes a while for people to understand what's going on...then once it becomes clear, they think they might be able to say something to get Randall's attention so he'll address the problem, maybe if they just say it clear enough, or get attention by quitting the forum (kinda like self-immolation?) or whatever it takes...but no.

Don't bother.

There is no customer service at LL, there are no surveys ("Are you enjoying your stay?" "How can we improve our business?") or drop boxes where suggestions are taken. There's nothing.

posted May 17, 2014 09:19 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Sibyl, do you not understand my phrasing or do you not understand my allegation? Or both?

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posted May 17, 2014 09:27 AM            

I would give examples of people who Ami passive-aggressively baits by calling them "My Friend" but it's not my business to expose those members, as they are choosing to deal with her simply by ignoring her.