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Author
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Topic: DMV Orders Gender Nonconforming Teen To Remove Makeup!
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StarlightSmileSupreme
Knowflake Posts: 9169
From: neptune
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted June 24, 2014 10:04 PM
  
quote:
Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
I agree but if this kid is allowed to retake his picture that argument could come up and just create another issue. It enhances SOME women you can absolutely always tell when a guy is wearing it. I think some guys look absolutely stunning with it on too and that shouldn't matter but in as ID picture it is what it is.
The only reason I wear it is I think I look too washed out without it...the camera they used was really bad about that...and then they got new ones that take better photos. I still want makeup on and no silly regulation saying I can't. IP: Logged |
MoonWitch
Moderator Posts: 1971
From: The Beach
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 24, 2014 10:04 PM
I wish I could scan my old driver's license. It looked VERY similar to this and was taken around the same time (minus the booze in the background).  IP: Logged |
DeepFreeze
unregistered
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posted June 24, 2014 10:05 PM
Hair is not always easily altered. Sometimes, but not always. Such as growing it out.
So let's not get crazy. Makeup is. Glasses are easy. Hats are easy. Things like that. Common sense. It's not about human rights. If I were in charge... Strict policies regarding your id picture. When you walk out... I don't give a crap what you do.
Make big purple devil horns with your hair... Buzz it off before or after. Its hair.
I don't care if you want to run around with vampire teeth and green hair over your face. Whatever floats your boat. Id picture time. Clear visual of your face (they do ask people to pull their hair away from their face, I've seen it), no makeup, either sex, no glasses, no hats. I don't understand how this became some massive debate about men's right to wear makeup. Who cares? Wear it then but in South Carolina he's lucky to not be beaten every day by some country boys. lol
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Barbiegirl19
unregistered
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posted June 24, 2014 10:06 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MoonWitch:
My FB friend:
He looks like this literally all the time... for years.
Really, is the DMV going to ask him to remove his eyeshadow so he can look more natural?
Not a clue. He looks more manly though. That kid was dressed up like a girl yet didn't identify as one. That's the most confusing thing I've ever heard. He was misrepresenting his identity(gender) your fb friend isn't. It's not the same thing. IP: Logged |
MoonWitch
Moderator Posts: 1971
From: The Beach
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 24, 2014 10:15 PM
I guess I don't get it then. If you are a guy that is pretty in makeup it's bad. If you are guy that still looks like a guy with makeup it's ok. I mean, I get that an ID should show your face. Obviously that makes sense. You don't want someone coming in with a mask on or wearing dark sunglasses. But if you look a certain way most of the time then that's how your ID should look. The kid in the original story wasn't even wearing a lot of makeup. He just happened to look really good in it. I guess if there have to be ridiculous laws about this then I feel it should cover both genders. If people can't wear make up then that goes for both sexes. If everyone has to pull their hair back that goes for both sexes. Etc. etc. I absolutely understand the feeling of injustice in a blatant double standard. Like the time I was fired for being bald while I worked with a lot of men that shaved their heads. Ooof - I'd feel bad for the women that naturally look really masculine without makeup on. It would be like they were trying to pass themselves off as men or something! IP: Logged |
DeepFreeze
unregistered
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posted June 24, 2014 10:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
You are going to have most women irritated then.
Tough. That's what I'd say.
People want to pull this crap - fine... No one wears it. That's what I'd do.
LOL That's right! Some 16 year old boy effed it up for everyone. Hahahaha IP: Logged |
Barbiegirl19
unregistered
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posted June 24, 2014 10:24 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MoonWitch:
I guess I don't get it then. If you are a guy that is pretty in makeup it's bad. If you are guy that still looks like a guy with makeup it's ok. I mean, I get that an ID should show your face. Obviously that makes sense. You don't want someone coming in with a mask on or wearing dark sunglasses. But if you look a certain way most of the time then that's how your ID should look. The kid in the original story wasn't even wearing a lot of makeup. He just happened to look really good in it. I guess if there have to be ridiculous laws about this then I feel it should cover both genders. If people can't wear make up then that goes for both sexes. If everyone has to pull their hair back that goes for both sexes. Etc. etc. I absolutely understand the feeling of injustice in a blatant double standard. Like the time I was fired for being bald while I worked with a lot of men that shaved their heads. Ooof - I'd feel bad for the women that naturally look really masculine without makeup on. It would be like they were trying to pass themselves off as men or something!
I agree with everyone being treated the same. I just don't ever see that happening, we aren't and we should be. I think THE key point with this kid is his age. He is 16 and a lot of DL or ID cards are good for 6,8 and sometimes 10 years. We all change a great deal when we're between 19-25 I think that's also why they did what they did. He's still a kid who could completely change the way he is in a few years. It's so much more than him wearing makeup who cares. It all comes down to him still being a child and his safety. They weren't doing it to be jerks they were following the guidelines and rules just like everyone else has too. Like I stated earlier if male prostitutes and strippers who do cross dress do and are okay with it, why can't this kid? It's all to continue to divide people and to create these hate wars. IP: Logged |
StarlightSmileSupreme
Knowflake Posts: 9169
From: neptune
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted June 24, 2014 10:29 PM
Once upon a time you could put a ton of makeup on and not look like you had any in your photo. That was when they used bad cameras.IP: Logged |
ariestaurus
Knowflake Posts: 426
From:
Registered: Feb 2013
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posted June 24, 2014 10:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
I agree with everyone being treated the same. I just don't ever see that happening, we aren't and we should be. I think THE key point with this kid is his age. He is 16 and a lot of DL or ID cards are good for 6,8 and sometimes 10 years. We all change a great deal when we're between 19-25 I think that's also why they did what they did. He's still a kid who could completely change the way he is in a few years. It's so much more than him wearing makeup who cares. It all comes down to him still being a child and his safety. They weren't doing it to be jerks they were following the guidelines and rules just like everyone else has too. Like I stated earlier if male prostitutes and strippers who do cross dress do and are okay with it, why can't this kid? It's all to continue to divide people and to create these hate wars.
If we ALL change between the ages of 19-25, why was this kid treated differently than the rest of us? We can all change our appearance to look differently. I could gain 50 lbs, stop wearing make up, and shave my head, and look nothing like my current pic. Anyone can change. You can't single out one group of people; that's discrimination, And if the strippers And prostitutes you speak of only wear make up for business, it's not the same thing. IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 172589
From: I hold a Juris Doctorate (J.D.) and a Legum Magister (LL.M.)!
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 24, 2014 10:55 PM
Everyone should always be treated equally, and when they're not, then it's time for the courts to intervene.IP: Logged |
Barbiegirl19
unregistered
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posted June 24, 2014 11:03 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ariestaurus:
If we ALL change between the ages of 19-25, why was this kid treated differently than the rest of us? We can all change our appearance to look differently. I could gain 50 lbs, stop wearing make up, and shave my head, and look nothing like my current pic. Anyone can change. You can't single out one group of people; that's discrimination,And if the strippers And prostitutes you speak of only wear make up for business, it's not the same thing.
He's a kid. When he's an adult he may think and even be different than he was at his current age. Again it's for his safety. He was treated the same as everyone else. Just because they made him take off his female clothes and makeup doesn't mean he was treated differently. They do the same with glasses, colored contacts, hair in the face, etc. its all the exact same. It's all because he's gender non-conformist, which I guarantee he picked male as his gender for the license anyway. Period. Point. Blank If he were a typical guy no one would care. It shouldn't be just because he's "gender non-conformist" it should be because he's human and a kid. IP: Logged |
BellaFenice
Knowflake Posts: 3419
From: Neptune with PisceanDream, Faith, and Meissieri
Registered: Sep 2013
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posted June 24, 2014 11:08 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
Everyone should always be treated equally, and when they're not, then it's time for the courts to intervene.
Sums up how I feel. Kind of heated in here, so I will simply say no one deserves to be discriminated based on how they choose to represent themselves. Makeup isn't a 'woman only' thing, so if you are going to make a teenage boy take off his makeup then everyone should have to do it. IP: Logged |
FireMoon
unregistered
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posted June 25, 2014 01:12 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
It's because you're a women. He is dressing like a women and trying to look like one therefore giving the idea of him being one. He's a boy, a legal boy so he has to look like one in his picture.
Wait this has nothing to do with how he's dressed. And who decides what a legal boy should look like? Are there gender specific laws documented somewhere? Cause if not it shouldn't be an issue. IP: Logged |
FireMoon
unregistered
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posted June 25, 2014 04:52 AM
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ariestaurus
Knowflake Posts: 426
From:
Registered: Feb 2013
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posted June 25, 2014 08:15 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
He's a kid. When he's an adult he may think and even be different than he was at his current age. Again it's for his safety.
And the same doesn't apply to everyone? Again, everyone can eventually think and be different as adults as they are at their current age. I don't see how it's less safe for him to wear make-up but it's safe for me to wear make up? We have the same potential for change. quote:
Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
He was treated the same as everyone else. Just because they made him take off his female clothes and makeup doesn't mean he was treated differently.
Who's talking about clothes? Aren't clothes irrelevant since this is a headshot? quote:
Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
They do the same with glasses, colored contacts, hair in the face, etc. its all the exact same.
Not the same as make-up. They make you remove glasses, contacts, hats, because those obstruct the view of one's face and change the color of one's eyes. You need to be able to see the person's real eyes, face, features, etc. If women can wear make-up, it's not fair that he can't. Again, look at the pictures. There's not much difference. quote:
Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
It's all because he's gender non-conformist, which I guarantee he picked male as his gender for the license anyway. Period. Point. Blank If he were a typical guy no one would care. It shouldn't be just because he's "gender non-conformist" it should be because he's human and a kid.
He's human and he's a kid, that's right. This is the way he looks all the time. It's not up to the police to decide what a boy 'should' look like. It's discrimination against men when they say only girls can wear make-up. It's no less unnatural on us than on them. IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Knowflake Posts: 9849
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted June 25, 2014 09:37 AM
Some might find this interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-spirit And to think that's not even counting intersex individuals. Though that said, this boy shouldn't be confused with drag queen entertainers (and I never heard of one that was a true stripper, that defeats the purpose, though a few can get very bold with their sexual innuendos and such), cross-dressers who see their role as an alter ego (for all sorts of different reasons, and often kept very private) rather than identity, and certainly not male prostitutes. Nor is he transgender, he's a gender nonconformist, and to him it's not a livelihood or hobby or alter ego it's his identity (or perhaps his seeking his identity beyond arbitrary--as opposed to biological--gender roles). IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 172589
From: I hold a Juris Doctorate (J.D.) and a Legum Magister (LL.M.)!
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 25, 2014 03:23 PM
All equality--all the time.IP: Logged |
Ellynlvx
Knowflake Posts: 10490
From: the Point of Light within the Mind of God
Registered: Aug 2013
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posted June 25, 2014 03:43 PM
Well, some days I like Eclairs, and some days I like Cherry Tipped Milk Shakes.I like them both. What can I say? IP: Logged |
Ellynlvx
Knowflake Posts: 10490
From: the Point of Light within the Mind of God
Registered: Aug 2013
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posted June 25, 2014 03:59 PM
Probably a Libra Thing.Just have trouble making up my mind. They're Both Scrumptious!  IP: Logged |
Randall
Webmaster Posts: 172589
From: I hold a Juris Doctorate (J.D.) and a Legum Magister (LL.M.)!
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted June 26, 2014 09:50 PM
I used to wear guyliner.IP: Logged |
hannaramaa
unregistered
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posted June 27, 2014 02:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
I think the idea is to have as much as "unnatural" things removed as possible. (no smiling because you probably won't be smiling if you are a suspect or detained) It's all just to make it easier to identify in the end. Those things can be easily removed.
But hair, etc is a natural part of your body. So they leave it. I think that's the whole idea.
For public safety in the end. Not to screw with your whatever you got going on in your personal life.
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page one
unregistered
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posted June 27, 2014 06:19 PM
If the point is to make you easier to identify, and it is, then you should look on your ID the way you look in your daily life. This isn't anywhere near the thorny issue it's being made out to be.IP: Logged |
hannaramaa
unregistered
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posted June 27, 2014 07:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by page one:
If the point is to make you easier to identify, and it is, then you should look on your ID the way you look in your daily life. This isn't anywhere near the thorny issue it's being made out to be.
That's the way the boy looks in his daily life. That's why it's become controversial. IP: Logged |
DeepFreeze
unregistered
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posted June 27, 2014 07:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by page one:
If the point is to make you easier to identify, and it is, then you should look on your ID the way you look in your daily life. This isn't anywhere near the thorny issue it's being made out to be.
Wow, people don't get it. If your picture had makeup.... What if you're not wearing any when they want to Id you? (for booking and more serious things, not age verification)
If it's off in the picture, it can also be removed in real life to match.
If they have your id for such a thing, you're in custody or detained or what have you. Not standing there looking into a crowd... "there he is!" Why is this such a hard concept?
I'm like... Seriously stumped at how easily derailed people get when they get their mind stuck in these things. IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Knowflake Posts: 9849
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted June 27, 2014 08:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by DeepFreeze:
Wow, people don't get it. If your picture had makeup.... What if you're not wearing any when they want to Id you? (for booking and more serious things, not age verification)
If it's off in the picture, it can also be removed in real life to match.
If they have your id for such a thing, you're in custody or detained or what have you. Not standing there looking into a crowd... "there he is!" Why is this such a hard concept?
I'm like... Seriously stumped at how easily derailed people get when they get their mind stuck in these things.
 Your point invalidated. Especially as the chance of what you seem to fear coming about are almost null and void anyway. And on the off chance they do need his pic without makeup they have computer programs and other means to get it (heck, they're now catching people stealing identities by facial recognition software at the DMV, even when they attempt to alter their appearance)...not to mention getting family and school photos. All said and done we're just as stumped at your inability to get it, too.
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Lindaland
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