posted October 21, 2009 01:51 PM            

"I am gambling here, my 6th sense tells me some anonymous reader knows. She will post it here someday before 2012."

Well, reading that gave me chills, so strong it almost threw me out of my chair. You know what that means...

I am reading everything I can to wake up to it. To my part of it. Usually, when things come to me like this, its after I have put in a good deal of work toward it...sweat equity, I guess. They don't just hand it to me right away in an apriori vision or dream.

When I initially read the thread, the first thing I thought of was Lara's crystal wand. That is the very first thing that came to mind. I feel the information it carries is ready to be revealed. That the time is now appropriate. This wand literally screamed at Lara the day she saw it in a shop, and she couldn't rest until she went back to purchase it. I believe that she was also entrusted with it during her Egyptian incarnations. That she has had it from the beginning. It has been her job to keep the crystal safe and protect the information lifetime after lifetime.

If everyone would please check transiting Atlantis, and see what it is aspecting in your chart? As I mentioned in my other post, it is getting ready to exactly conjunct my KARMA. Tameem's thread on this isn't by accident.

Also, I just found this article, which we can add to information we are collecting. The more we work together, the stronger the collective knowledge, the more enlightened we become as to our purpose for this incarnation, which is, (if you weren't sure)to make sure it doesn't happen again. That the outcome is different this time.

What we call "Atlantis" is a Greek permutation of the sound "atl." . The ancient Egyptians caught only the barest echo
in their brief associations with the remnants of what were the

"Atlanteans," who were themselves only the distant descendants of the original settlers of that now almost vanished island continent. The Atlanteans, to use a word, were a race of non-physical beings
in the sense that you are used to the notion of a body. They were non-corporeal mindstreams, who could project themselves
into the material world.

They floated about with--for lack of a better phrase--an atmosphere. And they came to earth for reasons that we cannot even conceive. But in time they became attached to it, to the pleasures of life,moving from one organic body to another--and they got trapped.

In any event, what concerns us is their gift, the lasting presence of their existence on the earth which is about to come
into our hands--and minds.

Atlanteans communicated by images. Spoken and written languages appeared only later, when their awareness of their original non-corporeal states disappeared.

They became mired,and as they procreated their abilities became weaker and weaker
Rather than communicate directly by mind-to-mind actuality, they found themselves using secondary images--memories. In time, to their horror, they discovered that they could not contain all the memories that they wanted.

For a while, Atlantean incarnations still had flashes of great spiritual power. It was in the use of this that the idea of the "living" crystals was conceived and executed.

Their resonance was tuned to such a delicate pitch that these crystals could be impressed with the contents of an Atlantean mind--which was still more powerful that the current human one.

In effect, lives could be deposited in these crystals as "memories," something akin to a hard drive in our terms. The "living crystals" in the temples were divine--they contained all the store of sensual mpression collected back into the far dim mists of the Origin Time, which they now knew only second hand. But that divinity was now outside of themselves, so they now thought.

While many were made, and they were housed
with the greatest of reverence, most were either lost, hidden, or destroyed by quakes.

But some few survived and were retrieved from their hiding places when it was clear
that the end was near for their ancient civilization.

One of these was taken to Egypt, where it was impressed with the conscious awareness of all their history, all their knowledge and what they could of their living culture.
It is in this sense that the crystal is "living," not that the crystal itself
is biological.

And it is this crystal that is about to be
unearthed. Merely the presence of the human minds in contact with it will cause the activation of what is the equivalent of a radio broadcast. We will all hear what the crystal was left to tell us.

After assuming individual form--their great mental powers and recreated the creature into a pattern (physical form)they felt was "superior."

They disrupted the "natural" evolution of the beings. Some were more successful--or interested-- than others at this adaptation.
Some of the newly made beings were deformed; that is, the Atlantean mind in attempting to merge the energies mistook--or did it

deliberately for fun--the form, and there were altered creatures with wings, hooved legs, etc.; part human, part beast. They liked playing with toys. And what
wondrous toys by our standards.

The very first Atlanteans were physically very big. The so-called "giants" of the Bible, the myths of the Titans, are all reflections of these events.

Some of them lived for a thousand or more years in the same body. During the DESCENT, or "falling out of heaven," they were thrilled with the apparently endless possibilities of temporal embedment.

As they become more embedded, of course, they lost this power.But noticing this, they began to compensate with material devices.
There were those who perceived that their effects were disruptive to the planet and who believed this was a violation of divine nature. This stream of consciousness is partly what Cayce called the Children of
One.

Those Atlanteans who pooh-poohed the notion that there was ANY divinity in nature beyond their own existence can be summarized with the label "Children of Belial." They are also called the Children of Light and Darkness.

To be fair--or at least a little compassionate--the motivations of the darkbound were to survive as physiological creatures. They had established a colony,
and they wanted it to survive.

They did not yet see how they were becoming irreparably merged with the matter and the corresponding alterations of their own self-awareness. And then they discovered death.

It amazes me to see such denial was in full bloom 25,000 years ago,just as it is today.
http://www.gaiafriends.org/gaia27.txt.html

posted October 21, 2009 01:55 PM            

both words come from the word, Atlas who was the mythological Titan who was forced to hold the heavens as punishment for siding with the Titans in the war against the Gods.

also there is always the possibility of translation errors.

I feel that we need to take care not to take mythology literally which tends to be the case with what numerous Christians do with the Bible which I believe is mythology too.
They think that the Bible is the word of god and the only truth. Many of these people also claim to have visions,hear voices from angels and God, getting "insights" and "revelations". These tend to be in contrast with New Age,New Thought concepts.

so who knows what to believe

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 21, 2009 02:07 PM            

yes, it is true we should not take everything too literal. But on the other hand we can`t dismiss the possibility that Plato was referring to a historical fact (I am talking about the war with the Greek, not necessarily the spiritual aspects); after all for many centuries people believed Troy to be just a mythic construct for teaching people about the atrocities of war. But as we know now Troy existed. We still don`t know if the war has happened exactly the way it was described. I think there will be some liberties of writers.
But I am inclined to believe that if Plato described the geographical position like this, there was a reason for it. And the reason could be that he really believed Atlantis to have been there.

IQ,

posted October 21, 2009 02:10 PM              

it is possible there is wrong or misleading information in his stuff too, even he admits that possibility; but so much of it resonates with and makes sense to me that i think it makes a really valuable addition to anything else written about atlantis and who WE are...

on asteroids: i am checking out more and more and i find the arthurian and atlantean ones tie together with my sun, nn, ic axis and asteroid karma...most of these are at either 8ish degrees or 17ish...

posted October 21, 2009 02:14 PM            

there could be translation errors with the location too. Some scientists already pointed that out.

I guess all the Greek deities were real.

shrugs

it's interesting that books with much detail on Atlantis were available for Steiner and Cayce to read.
There is no telling how much information that they got from reading books about Atlantis which gave them "ideas"

I think that reading those books might give some insight how they got their information on Atlantis.

there are also the Aryans theories in connection to Atlantis that Steiner espoused.

also the the theory of Atlantean civilization that in South Africa that was responsible for the things that blacks did there

I don't know

these things are highly questionable, and so who knows how much stuff on Atlantis is highly questionable

Madame Blavatsky was controversial about her views about Jews,and well...she was one of the Atlantis advocates.

Neptune isn't just the planet of psychism,mysticism but it's also the planet of illusion,deception

remember how Houdini exposed a lot of mediums as frauds.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 21, 2009 02:25 PM            

talking about Crystals, I thought it was interesting that my mum brought me a present from their last trip, and it was a crystal. She said it just called her to give it to me.
And it just hit me today, while other mums or people collect mussels, she has always been collecting stones. Her favourite was those with a cristalline structure, as are mine. ACtually it is something we have very much in common. Stones. lol

And it also just hit me that the english version of my mum`s name is "Crystal" and my name is a form of her name.
And so I looked around me in our home and discovered that there are stones and crystals everywhere at home. Of course I knew before, but I REALIZED it just now.
And those crystals in the cabinet, they always start to vibrate with my laughter, or when I am speaking in a highly emotional way. Only the crystals, not the porcelain or the glass surrounding them. It`s like my voice is on a similiar frequency. I don´t know. It`s strange.
But then again I once managed to make a bell ring while laughing.

Oh I am rambling again. Never mind.

So Transit Atlantis is:
quinkunx my True Node, Neptune and Atlantis and ASC
square my Pluto
trine my Tyche
quinkunx my Pallas, Hera and Wells
square my Giza
trine my Ceres, Jupiter, Horus and Ishtar
sextile my Hekate and Lilith

So it makes several aspect configurations with my chart.

It is the apex of a Yod of the sextile between my
Atlantis / ASC / Neptune / True Node (7-10 Sag)
and
Pallas / Hera / Wells (9 Aqua)

It closes the gap to a Grand cross involving my
Giza (10 Aries)
Pluto (9 Libra)
Isis, Osiris (8 Cap)
Spirit, Santorini (10, 12 Cap).

A Grand trine in water of :
Atlantis in Cancer in 8th house
Tyche in 10 Scorpio in 12th house
Ceres, Ishtar, HOrus, Jupiter on 8-11 Pisces in 4th house

And in a few days it will be part of another Yod:
It will conjunct my Tut on 12 Cancer
sextile my Sphinx on 13 Taurus
quinkunx my Amun (primordial creation God, better known in the combination with Ra, as Amun-Ra or Amun-Re) on 13 Sagittarius

I think this yod is interesting, especially if you consider the Sabians.

Sphinx:
On The Beach, Children Play While Shellfish Grope At The Edge Of The Water

Tut:
A Hand With A Prominent Thumb Is Held Out For Study

Amun:
The Great Pyramid And The Sphinx

posted October 21, 2009 02:31 PM            

translation errors are always a problem, as well as the original dating. Writing history in ancient times (at least for Greeks and Romans) were different than today. It was more considered an art and exactness wasn`t really demanded.

Yet, even THAT is an interpretation I guess.

In the end I think we have to believe what resonates most with us and what seems logical to us.

posted October 21, 2009 02:41 PM            

exactly. like the translation errors of Ptolemy's Astrology book.

"In the end I think we have to believe what resonates most with us and what seems logical to us."

exactly.......there is a lot of diversity when it comes to that, and it has to led to much discord,controversy

look at how many different religions,spiritual traditions, and even how many different denominations in Christianity there are on this planet with so much disagreement about what to believe and practice. They believe in what they can strongly identify with and what makes sense to them.

of course, all of it can be questioned.
a lot of it is questionable, especially if they are start pointing out to others that they are wrong. If their beliefs and their overall culture get questioned, they feel insulted and even threatened.

It's great that people can't be executed for having different beliefs.

even cultural conditioning leading to bias the color the perceptions of people. some believed that Alice Baily and Dion Fortune had racial prejudices that were typical of their time period even though they were deeply esoteric.

posted October 21, 2009 03:54 PM            

omg i read your post about my laser wand and my whole body went numb and my backbone just became electrified.

You have a great memory... my laser wand kept me up all night and i was at the shop the next morning before it opened to buy it. Then, a few years later when i tried to sell it back to the shop the same thing happened. Now, you can hide my crystal anywhere in my house and i can recall/find it instantly. It's definitely been with me in another lifetime because i have some kind of affinity with it and it makes me feel very emotional sometimes.

posted October 21, 2009 04:16 PM            

my T atlantis sabian is 9' cancer
A Large Diamond In The First Stages Of The Cutting Process

posted October 21, 2009 06:05 PM            

What do you think of my Draco-Natal aspects?

ORBM,
Did you get my last email?

iQ,
Do you think Draco-Natal comparison can show a possibility of having a past life in Atlantis?

posted October 21, 2009 06:10 PM            

You asked me about egyptian asteroids aspecting my Santorin/Spirit and atlantis. I found these:

Atlantis 9' Cappy
Nephthys 8' cappy
Sphinx 6' gemini
Horus 12' taurus

santorin/spirit 26' pisces
kaali 29' leo
nefertiti 0' cappy
Ishtar 28' cappy
Sekhmet 0' Aquarius

posted October 21, 2009 06:13 PM            

Sabian
(Through Bankruptcy, society gives to an overburdened individual the opportunity to begin again - Rhydhyar calls it 'Liberation from the Past')

It is in a grand Air trine/kite with Mercury/Aqua/27°
Pluto/Libra/29°
Neptune/Sag/29°

Loosely conjunct N.N 1° Cancer and sextile Asc 24°.
Inconjuncts BML (1°orb).

Guess I'm out on the bleachers also, for sticking my fingers in places they didn't belong once upon a time.

(Argh! All these great topics, and I have no time to engage fully I miss you all

posted October 21, 2009 06:33 PM            

Atlantis 12 degrees scorpio in my 3rd house - conjunct uranus, vesta, and IC, quintile saturn, oppose MC, square mars and that greater than sign my sun. I believe the sabian symbol is "Telephone Lineman At Work Installling New Connections".

Question
Have any of you met anyone's whose atlantis conjuncts your own? Have you noticed anything odd about your communication style with one another? I truly believe when someone meets someone whose atlantis conjuncts their own - recall is going to happen.

1st page comments..........Glaucus, wow, thanks a lot for the info you posted. I read some of it yesterday and got a really crazy recall. I want to see what else becomes of it before I post anything about it. Some of what I read so far that you have posted connects although I'm not really the best at reading such a large amount of information in such a short period of time. I really find it odd that I'm not interested in finding Atlantis on the physical plane but it's nice to read others take on Atlantis and to feel how it jives with my thoughts about the place which is why I feel I could really make use of reading all of the information you were VERY kind in posting. Again, thank you so much. Also, I believe there was more than one catastrophic flood but I'm not sure if more than one occurred on atlantis or whether or not that was several different locations. It seemed like it happened so fast - a tsunami was probably the culprit. p.s. seems like the subconscious hasn't really changed much in us. You've given me much to think about.

Dolphin07 - I think you were onto something as far as the sabian symbol goes. Also - I know this is going to sound really really silly but Dolphins can help locate 'extinct' regions of the world as most animals can but that's another topic.

scrappydog - have you or your sister checked out telekinesis, remote viewing? what do you two do with your astral abilities? you could probably astral to atlantis with the help of some animal friends. there is so much you can do with astral traveling - i'm sure you know this. how is you and your sister's telepathy?

vertiver - good point about atlantis conjunct pluto generation considering the up and coming 2012 shift. I really am beginning to believe there is no such thing as coincidence.

venus in gemini - good thinking on checking out transits. It's about to go into my 12th house after it passes over my natal angel and dna. this should be interesting, for the past couple of weeks, i swear, i keep seeing movement out of the corner of my eyes. today, i was thinking about the many entities that we don't normally physically see and just how much more visible they were to us a long time ago or were they?

posted October 21, 2009 06:56 PM              

i must read the thread all over again :P

here is mine

NATALLY i have ATLANTIS at 26 LEO

Atlantis square my Venus 1
Atlantis sesquisquare neptune 0
Atlantis quintile Ur 0
ATLANTIS Trine Babylonia/Karma/Glasgow

Transit Atlantis is sextile Sun;semisquare Atlantis,kikx Santorini and cj MC

Tr Gilgamesh and Sumeria are cj my AC
TR Karma is cj Babylonia

John has NATAL ATLANTIS 6 Cancer.

Tr gilgamesh/sumeria is ch Venus
tR Atlantis is square Sun/mERC/Babylon
Tr Atlanis is trine jupiter
Tr Atlantis is sextile DNA and KARMA!
TR ATLANTIS IS CJ NN/ATLANTIS !!!!

Is it my impression or John´s transits seems special? i mean aspects his nodes,karma,DNA...

NOTE THIS:mostly within 1 orb!

my Venus/ATlantis 26Leo is Solstice CJ. J´s Atlantis 6 cancer ( by IQ´S SOLSTICE POINT LIST)

My Karma is solstice cj J´s NN.
His Karma is solstice cj my DNA
his DNA is solstice cj exact my NN/Vesta/PF.
MY D.DNA is solstice cj his N.ASC
his D.DNA is solstice cj my ASC

posted October 21, 2009 07:19 PM              

guys i looked the dracos....

look at Jonh´s DRACONIC transits:

Tr DNA is cj his D.Babylon
Tr Ur is cj his glasgow/IC
Tr SANTORINI is cj his DSC
Tr ATLANTIS IS CJ HIS DRACO SANTORINI!

And note this: this Tr atlantis and D.Santorini are conjunct his n. DNA!

note also that in his natal,Tr Santorini is conjunct his n.karma....

IQ

- i saw that his D.DNA exact cj my Union/Destinn and cj my kiron.and my DNA is cj his D.DSC and his n.saturn...

This is getting spooky but:

our C.ATLANTIS is 1º33LEO and my D.DNA Is 1º51 LEO! it also cj my D.ANTEROS 2ºLEO and D.ADONIS 5ºLEO.

OUR C.DRACO ATLANTIS is 0º TAURUS.

OUR C.DRACO KARMA is 25ºPISCES.j´S DRACO ATLANTIS is 26ºPISCES and J´S DRACO BRIEDE is 23ºPISCES.

My D.Briede is 0 CANCER.His N.Bried 3CANCER.Which is cj his N.ATLANTIS 6 CANCER adn NN 9 cancer.

my D.Groom is 28º10 CAP and his D.KARMA is 28º39CAP!

DRACO DAVIDSON:
C.ATLANTIS(cj Briede) 29PISCES cj J´s D.ATlantis/Briede

C.DNA 8 canc cj J´s ATLANTIS 6 canc and NN.
C.DNA cj my MC.
C.bRIEDE cj my DSC

posted October 21, 2009 07:27 PM            

ummmmm

I checked out Santorini in my natal

Santorini in 13'25 Libra in 2nd
conjunct Guinevere in 13'27 Libra in 2nd
trine Galahad in 13'18 Gemini R in 10th
trine/sextile heliocentric Uranus Nodes in 13'51 Gemini/Sagittarius in 10th and 4th
trine/sextile Midheaven/Imum Coeli in 13'27 Virgo
sextile Atlantis in 12'18 Sagittarius in 4th
semisextile/quincunx Ascendant/Descendant in 13'27 Virgo/Pisces

We both have Santorini-Guinevere conjunction. That's a bit strange.
I am still tripping over you being born on the day of my Skepticus return.
hahahahahaha

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 21, 2009 09:44 PM            

VIG-

My natal Sphinx conjunctions at 13 Cancer are being transited by Atlantis and Sphinx at 9 and 12 degrees Cancer right now and this is being trined by Karma as it moves into place at 11 Scorpio.

Atlantis and Sphinx Asteroids are moving into a conjunction with Sirius as well. This is I think is what is calling all of our minds and directing Tameem as well.
These energies are allowing for mental recall if we can raise ourself to that frequency. I think I am going to do a fast for the next 3 days and see what I can call into this temple.

That was very insightful, what you wrote, it almost translates, *** for tat the reading from Cayce that I posted regarding Atlantis.... on page one..Im fasicinated with how the Atlanteans materalized. I know the part I played.

DD,
Curiously over the past 6 months my interests in Crystals started. I have collected 7 now. One is very special to me I wear it around my neck every day on a leather necklace...
Quick story, I was on set with it recently and the makeup lady looked at it and said that is a beautiful crystal, I said thanks, and she said that she wanted to check it out later..Well come to find out this lady is big into Crystals. She was tellub me all about there uses and I was listening to her, actually really interested in what she had to say. To the point that I think she thought perhaps I was not aware of the power of Crystals...Anywho in the middle of the scene the Director said I had to take it off because it was reflecting light into the camera and messing up the scene.
So the Make up lady was like you need to leave it on, him. I found that funny, and he just gave her a look because they are friends.
Anywho she said I will hold it for you.. After the scene I got it back and she was like this Crystal has access to the Akashic Records....and looked at me like she was just seeing me for the first time. I said how do you know. And she started describing all these things on the Crystal...Markings that tell you about its journey. Fascinating woman, she said I certainly hope they write you into the show, I said me too....but the whole thing was strange because I picked this Cystal out of like 30 or so, it was the first one I saw when I walked in and after looking at all of them it was the one that I connected too...and I must say I feel connected to it...in a strange multidimensional type way.....
Might be something to this little bugger after all after reading your story, lol.

Songwriter,
I did, Im sorry I havent replied yet, I promise I will before bedtime here.
xoxo

posted October 21, 2009 10:15 PM              

later they interbred with others here and their descendants appear to possibly be doing the same thing today..ie investigating the possibilities for life on the moon or other planets?

just a possibility.

a side line, in early 1948 and probably some other times too, atlantis, isis and osiris were all within two degrees of each other AND conjunct galactic centre!

LUVINU - pretty much anyone born close to you has their atlantis conj yours, and it looks like it goes round pretty fast so there are probably a lot of such people.

posted October 21, 2009 10:58 PM            

Edgar Cayce (1877-1945)

Cayce "loved to have his patients boiling the most obscure roots and bark to make nasty syrups. Perhaps the therapy was based on nauseating the victim so much that the original illness was forgotten." --James Randi

Edgar Cayce (pronounced Casey) is known as one of America's greatest psychics. His followers maintain that Cayce was able to tap into some sort of higher consciousness, such as God or the akashic record, to get his "psychic knowledge." He used this "knowledge" to predict that California will slide into the ocean and that New York City will be destroyed in some sort of cataclysm. He predicted that in 1958 the U.S. would discover some sort of death ray used on Atlantis. Cayce is one of the main people responsible for some of the sillier notions about Atlantis, including the idea that the Atlanteans had some sort of Great Crystal. Cayce called the Great Crystal the Tuaoi Stone and said it was a huge cylindrical prism that was used to gather and focus "energy," allowing the Atlanteans to do all kinds of fantastic things. But they got greedy and stupid, tuned up their Crystal to too high a frequency and set off volcanic disturbances that led to the destruction of that ancient world. He made other predictions concerning such things as the Great Depression (that 1933 would be a good year) and the Lindbergh kidnapping (most of it wrong, all of it useless), and that China would be converted to Christianity by 1968. He also claimed to be able see and read auras, but this power was never tested under controlled conditions. However, Edgar Cayce is best known for being a psychic medical diagnostician and psychic reader of past lives.

Cayce was known as "the sleeping prophet" because he would close his eyes and appear to go into a trance when he did his readings (Stearn 1990). At his death, he left thousands of accounts of past life and medical readings. A stenographer took notes during his sessions and some 30,000 transcripts of his readings are under the protection of the Association for Research and Enlightenment. However, Cayce usually worked with an assistant (hypnotist and mail-order osteopath Al Layne; John Blackburn, M.D.; homeopath Wesley Ketchum). According to Dale Beyerstein, "these documents are worthless by themselves" because they provide no way of distinguishing what Cayce discerned by psychic ability from information provided to him by his assistants, by letters from patients, or by simple observation. In short, the only evidence for Cayce's psychic doctoring is useless for testing his psychic powers. Nevertheless, it is the volume and alleged accuracy of his "cures" that seem to provide the main basis for belief in Cayce as a psychic. In fact, however, the support for his accuracy consists of little more than anecdotes and testimonials. There is no way to demonstrate that Cayce relied on psychic powers, rather than the placebo effect, even on those cases where there is no dispute that he was instrumental in the cure.

It is true, however, that many people considered themselves cured by Cayce and that's enough evidence for true believers. It works! The fact that thousands don't consider themselves cured or can't rationalize an erroneous diagnosis won't deter the true believer. Gardner notes that Dr. J. B. Rhine, famous for his ESP experiments at Duke University, was not impressed with Cayce. Rhine felt that a psychic reading done for his daughter didn't fit the facts. Defenders of Cayce claim that if a patient has any doubts about Cayce, the diagnosis won't be a good one. Yet, what reasonable person wouldn't have doubts about such a man, no matter how kind or sincere he was?

Cayce's defenders provide some classic ad hoc hypotheses to explain away their hero's failures. For example, Cayce and a famous dowser named Henry Gross set out together to discover buried treasure along the seashore and found nothing. Their defenders suggested that their psychic powers were accurate because either there once was a buried treasure where they looked but it had been dug up earlier, or there would be a treasure buried there sometime in the future (one wonders why their psychic powers didn't discern this).

There are many myths and legends surrounding Cayce: that an angel appeared to him when he was 13 and asked him what his greatest desire was (Cayce allegedly told the angel that his greatest desire was to help people); that he could absorb the contents of a book by putting it under his pillow while he slept; that he passed spelling tests by using clairvoyance; that he was illiterate and uneducated. The New York Times is greatly responsible for the illiteracy myth ("Illiterate Man Becomes a Doctor When Hypnotized," (Sunday magazine section, October 9, 1910). Many of the myths were passed on unchecked by Thomas Sugrue, who believed Cayce had cured him of a disabling illness. In his 1945 book The Story of Edgar Cayce: There is a River, Sugrue asserts that it was Cayce, not the medical doctors who treated them, that was responsible for the cures of Cayce's son ("blindness") and wife ("tuberculosis").

One of the most common reasons given for believing in the psychic abilities of people such as Cayce is the claim that there's no way he could have known this stuff by ordinary means. He must have been told this by God or spirits or have been astrally projected back or forth in space or time, etc. Yet, Cayce's "psychic knowledge" is easily explained by quite ordinary ways of knowing things.

Even though Cayce didn't have a formal education much beyond grammar school, he was a voracious reader, worked in bookstores, and was especially fond of occult and osteopathic literature. (Osteopathy, in his day, was primitive and akin to naturopathy and folk medicine.) He was in contact with and assisted by people with various medical backgrounds. Even so, many of his readings would probably only make sense to an osteopath of his day. Martin Gardner cites Cayce's reading of Cayce's own wife as an example. The woman was suffering from tuberculosis:

.... from the head, pains along through the body from the second, fifth and sixth dorsals, and from the first and second lumbar...tie-ups here, floating lesions, or lateral lesions, in the muscular and nerve fibers which supply the lower end of the lung and the diaphragm...in conjunction with the sympathetic nerve of the solar plexus, coming in conjunction with the solar plexus at the end of the stomach.... (Gardner 1957: 217)

The fact that Cayce mentions the lung is taken by his followers as evidence of a correct diagnosis; it counts as a psychic "hit." But what about the incorrect diagnoses: dorsals, lumbar, floating lesions, solar plexus and stomach? Why aren't those counted as diagnostic misses? And why did Cayce recommend osteopathic treatment for people with tuberculosis, epilepsy, and cancer?

In addition to osteopathy, Cayce was knowledgeable of homeopathy and naturopathy. According to Dale Beyerstein, Cayce was one of the first to recommend laetrile as a cancer cure.* (Laetrile is chemically related to amygdalin, a substance found naturally in the pits of apricots and various other fruits, and is known to be ineffective for cancer.) Beyerstein writes:

Stearn (1967) summarizes Cayce's pronouncements on cancer. He reports that Cayce prescribed a serum made from the blood of rabbits for patients with "glandular," breast, and thyroid cancers, and in 1926, prescribed for a New York patient the raw side of a freshly skinned rabbit, still warm with blood, fur side out, placed on the breast for cancer of that area. "Animated ash," produced by taking bamboo fibers and passing an electrical charge through them, thereby producing the right vibrations for "life flowing effects," was another of his favorite cures.

Cayce also recommended "oil of smoke" (creosote made from pine tar*) for a leg sore; "peach-tree poultice" for convulsions; "bedbug juice" for dropsy; "fumes of apple brandy from a charred keg" for tuberculosis; and peanut oil rub to prevent arthritis (Gardner 1957). Gardner notes that Cayce recommended almonds to prevent cancer, but he makes no mention of laetrile either as a preventive or a cure of anything.

See also alternative health practice, Jeane Dixon, doomsday & doomsday cults, Nostradamus, placebo effect, Gordon-Michael Scallion, and "Energy Healing: Looking in All the Wrong Places" by Robert Todd Carroll.

reader comments

further reading

books and articles

Beyerstein, Dale. "Edgar Cayce," in The Encyclopedia of the Paranormal edited by Gordon Stein (Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus Books, 1996), pp.146-153.

Gardner, Martin. Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science (New York: Dover Publications, Inc., 1957).

Randi, James. Flim-Flam! (Buffalo, New York: Prometheus Books,1982), ch. 9.

Shermer, Michael and Arthur Benjamin. "Deviations: A Skeptical Investigation at Edgar Cayce's Association for Research and Enlightenment," Skeptic Volume 1, Number 3 (Fall 1992)

Stearn, Jess. Edgar Cayce: The Sleeping Prophet (New York: Doubleday and Company, 1967). reissued by Bantam, 1990.

websites

"Edgar Cayce: the 'prophet' who 'slept' his way to the top," Skeptical Inquirer, Jan-Feb, 1996 by Dale Beyerstein

Edgar Cayce Resource Center

The Edgar Cayce Web Site

Edgar Cayce on hemorrhoids

Osteopathy's Sectarian Roots by William T. Jarvis, Ph.D.
http://healing.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi =1/XJ/Ya&zTi=1&sdn=healing&cdn=religion&tm=67&f=20&tt=14&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//skepdic.com/cayce.html

posted October 22, 2009 12:09 AM            

The earth will be broken up in the western portion of America. The greater portion of Japan must go into the sea. The upper portion of Europe will be changed as in the twinkling of an eye. Land will appear off the east coast of America. There will be the upheavals in the Arctic and in the Antarctic that will make for the eruption of volcanoes in the Torrid areas, and there will be the shifting then of the poles——so that where there have been those of a frigid or semi-tropical [sic] will become the more tropical, and moss and fern will grow. And these will begin in those periods in '58 to '98.

As of this date, those events have failed to occur. How could that be?
http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/Cayce,%20Edgar.html

CAYCE FLIM-FLAM!
by James Randi (left)
When all else fails to convince the skeptic, promoters of the paranormal fall back on the Sleeping Prophet, Edgar Cayce, who is credited with having made accurate diagnoses and having prescribed cures for distant patients who sent him letters - and this despite having little or no information about them. Cayce is also famous for his "life readings" - descriptions of former and present lives of people derived from their names alone. He claimed it was all done while he slept, and that he never remembered a word of what he said while entranced. The Association for Research and Enlightenment is the result of all this, and its library of thirty thousand case histories is great material with which to regale the credulous. Moreover, the rationalizations that Cayce and his supporters used to explain his numerous and notable failures are prime examples of the art of evasion.
Cayce was a gentle man who looked like a schoolteacher, with rimless glasses and a receding chin. When he died in 1945 he was already well on the road to psychic stardom, and thereafter his reputation took off in earnest. The current rebirth of interest in the irrational has brought forth more than a dozen books - and reprints of old ones - that tout his wonders. Bookstands are full of Cayce items, and at my lectures he is frequently cited by believers in the audience as one of the invincibles of the trade.
Of course, Cayce is remembered for his apparent successes, not his failures. Disciples claim many thousands of verified instances in which this "master psychic" correctly diagnosed illnesses and prescribed cures. But did he? I recommend that my readers perform some research by carefully studying any of the many books on the Sleeping Prophet. It must be said of Cayce's followers that they are quite unashamed of the myriad half-truths, the evasive and garbled language, and the multiple "outs" that Cayce used in his readings. In some cases these crutches were clearly stated, without any attempt to disguise them. But such is the nature of the zealot that no matter how damning the evidence of the documents, faith marches on undaunted.
Cayce was fond of expressions like "I feel that..." and "perhaps" - qualifying words used to avoid positive declarations. It is a common tool in the psychic trade. Many of the letters he received - in fact, most - contained specific details about the illness for which the readings were required, and there was nothing to stop Cayce from knowing the contents of the letters and presenting that information as if it were a divine revelation. To one who has been through dozens of similar diagnoses, as I have, the methods are obvious. It is merely a specialized version of the "generalization" technique of fortune-tellers.
http://psychicinvestigator.com/demo/ReinSkp4.htm

CAYCE FLIM-FLAM! PART TWO
by James Randi
Cayce's "cures" actually were pretty funny. He just loved to have his patients boiling the most obscure roots and bark to make nasty syrups. Perhaps the therapy was based on nauseating the victim so much that the original illness was forgotten. And it is no secret that his cures were quite similar to the "home remedies" described in the handy medical encyclopedias that were bedside reading in many rural homes in the late 1800s. Beef broth was one of Cayce's favorite remedies for such diverse diseases as gout and leukemia. Who can fault a nice man who prescribes a cup of hot soup?
But did cures actually result from all this? The matter is hard to prove, either way. The testimony of some of his patients hardly represents the whole. Dead patients cannot complain, and those who were not cured would benefit little by writing a letter of complaint. After all, this good man had tried to help them, and just because it hadn't worked in some cases was no reason to knock the process. As for those who wrote to affirm that they had been cured, there is an important factor to consider. I'm sure you've heard the joke about the man who is found yelling at the top of his lungs in the park. Asked why, he replies that such a procedure keeps rogue elephants away. But, counters his questioner, there are no elephants around here for a thousand miles! Se how well it works? is the triumphant reply. The point is that just because Cayce prescribed a boiled root drink does not mean that the nostrum achieved the cure reported. Nor should we forget that many of the illnesses reported to physicians are totally imaginary or self-terminating.
But can the skeptics prove that Cayce's cures are attributable to ordinary causes? It would require a huge expenditure of money to do the necessary research for such a job, and in most cases the information would not be available anyway. Frankly, the vague, very evasive, simplistic diagnoses and cures attributed to Edgar Cayce hardly need such research. Examination of the record at hand is quite sufficient to deny him sainthood. The large and well-funded organization that he founded survives today as a result of preferred belief, not because of adequate proof.
In a revealing book entitled The Outer Limits of Edgar Cayce's Power, by E. V. and H. L. Cayce, his notable failures are excused in typical fashion. The authors assure us very strongly that the book, though it admits the failures, explains all of them quite satisfactorily. But I'll let you judge for yourself. Here, with the Cayce verbiage stripped awayto the essentials, is what they tell us he divined about the Hauptmann/Lindbergh kidnapping case while in a trance:

1. The baby was removed at 8:30 (A.M. or P.M. not specified) from the Lindbergh home by one man. Another man took it and there was a third person in the car.
2. The baby was taken to a small, brown, two-story house in a mill section called Cardova near New Haven. The house used to be green.
3. Schartest Street is mentioned; also Adams Street, which has had its numbers and name changed.
4. The house is shingled. Three men and one woman are with the child. The woman and one man were actually named.
5. The child's hair has been cut and dyed.
6. Cardova is related to the manufacture of leather goods.
7. Red shale and a new macadam road on a "half-street" and "half a mile" are mentioned.
8. The boy has been moved to Jersy City and is not well.
9. Hauptmann is "only partly guilty." Cayce asks for "no publicity on this case."

Well, that's quite a lot of information, is it not? Unfortunately, most of it is wrong. True, Adams Street was found, and it had been named only a few weeks earlier. But this information was available to Cayce during one of his rare waking periods. Besides, Adams Street proved a dud. "I've always had my doubts about anything very authentic in such matters," says Cayce when confronted with the facts. Well, so have I, Ed, more now than ever before after examining your record. But we should give the disciples (and Cayce) a chance to rationalize this one, so here goes with a list of their excuses:

1. The readings picked up the mental plans of others who had also planned a kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby. (Poor psychic aim.)
2. The thought patterns of others involved distorted the readings.
3. Mental static was very heavy.

No wonder Cayce asked for no publicity! It was a great fiasco, and he had psychic egg on his face. But these excuses are accepted by the believers as quite legitimate - to this day. page 189-190 FLIM-FLAM! Psychics,ESP,Unicorns and other Delusions by James Randi ("The Amazing Randi") Prometheus Books c. 1982 http://psychicinvestigator.com/demo/ReinTxt6.htm

There is some discussion about Cayce at the JREF forum too http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=53937

Edgar Cayce's followers say he predicted World War II, stock market crashes, a presidential assassination and even, in 1932, the growth of Virginia Beach as one of the largest resort cities on the East Coast.

But his 14,000 ``readings'' never prophesied the turmoil that now grips the international organization he founded 70 years ago on the Oceanfront.

The Association for Research and Enlightenment, Cayce's nonprofit center for holistic healing and spiritual guidance, is sinking, according to some current and former members. It has lost nearly 80,000 members in the past 10 years and $4.5 million in the past two.

Hemorrhaging money and members, A.R.E. now faces a multimillion-dollar lawsuit by former leaders who were accused of trying to transform the ecumenical organization into a hotbed of Christian fundamentalism.

Analysts say the organization won't survive much longer at that rate.

Officials of the institute, led by the late founder's grandson, said there's nothing to worry about. Reforms are in place to reduce expenses and boost revenue. Years of deficit spending will be turned around.
(...)

The lawsuit, meanwhile, is symbolic of the ongoing internal struggle over the direction A.R.E. should take in the new millennium. Some believe it should become more spiritual. Others think holistic medicine should be the priority, and still others believe psychic and ESP avenues should be pursued.

A.R.E. reached a zenith in the late 1980s at the height of the New Age movement. Actress Shirley MacLaine's books on reincarnation and meditation were bestsellers, aging baby boomers sought yoga and meditation and A.R.E. membership neared 100,000.

Cayce followers flocked to Virginia Beach for holistic remedies, dream interpretation, spiritual growth, astrology readings and to explore the more far-out principles of ESP, clairvoyance and past life regressions. A.R.E. also offered more mainstream programs, such as a youth camp, prisoner outreach and a school for massage therapy, programs still in place today.

A.R.E.'s programs were inspired by Cayce's work. For 43 years, Cayce, who died in 1945, slipped into a trance-like state 14,000 times, giving medical advice, offering cures, reliving past lives and predicting events far into the future. He claims to have been able to memorize textbooks by sleeping on them.

Cayce's readings are based on the Akashic Records, also known as the Book of Life, a mystical repository of every piece of information on every human who ever lived and every event that has ever taken place. He is said to have tapped into this record during his trances.

Kirk Nelson of Virginia Beach has been an Edgar Cayce student for more than 20 years. He has written several books, including one on the prophesied second coming of Jesus.

Typical of many A.R.E. members, he believes in the healing qualities of herbs and nutritional supplements that Cayce emphasized in his readings.
(...)

But A.R.E. and Cayce have been criticized through the years by people seeking to debunk his work.

In his book ``Flim Flam,''Off-site Link James Randi of Fort Lauderdale, Fla., contends that Cayce simply wrote out his dreams and knew what illnesses afflicted people before he ``predicted'' the problem.

``There was never any evidence he was in a trance. Some people said he was snoring,'' said Randi, who has a standing $1 million offer to anyone who can prove psychic, supernatural or paranormal behavior.

He and others also criticized Cayce's predictions that the second coming of Christ would occur in 1998 and that the Earth's polar caps would swap places by 2000, causing earthquakes and volcanic eruptions around the globe. Cayce followers say these predictions are being misinterpreted.

David C. Lane, a philosophy and sociology professor at Mount San Antonio College in California, teaches a course on critical thinking and has explored Cayce's work. He, too, argues that Cayce's supposed psychic abilities don't hold up. But, he added, there generally is no harm in his followers seeking meaning, happiness and health in their lives.
(...)

As the New Age movement waned through the 1990s, so did A.R.E.'s membership.

Lane and others believe that thousands who joined during the 1980s grew to doubt Cayce's work.

A.R.E. officials have a different explanation.

Kevin J. Todeschi, a senior manager, said the 100,000 membership figure is misleading. After accounting for thousands who joined through a one-time direct mail campaign and subscription offer, the core membership was more accurately about 30,000, he said.

Today, membership stands at 21,353, according to A.R.E.'s latest figures.

A.R.E. also was hit hard financially in 1999 when contributions dropped from $2.4 million to just more than $1 million, federal tax records show.

Book sales have slipped, investments tanked with the slumping stock market, and the number of visitors to A.R.E. headquarters and its gift shop is half what it was five years ago, according to tax returns and A.R.E. records.
(...)

With annual budgets between $7 million and $8 million in the past few years, A.R.E. can't survive long in such a decline, according to Daniel Borochoff, president of the American Institute for Philanthropy, a charity watchdog.
(...)

A.R.E.'s board presented the grim budget news to members during a mid-June annual congress in Virginia Beach. Staff already has been cut through attrition and by replacing employees with volunteers. If finances don't improve, program cuts will be next, the board said.

In another cost-cutting move, A.R.E. will move its Atlantic University, which offers a master's degree in transpersonal studies, from Little Neck Road to the headquarters.
(...)

Adding to the troubles are disgruntled long-time members who believe A.R.E. has lost its direction and is failing to communicate with them.

Charles Thomas Cayce, Edgar's grandson and A.R.E.'s executive director, has been the central target of the complaints.

``CT Cayce has an aura of fame that blinds most people, especially members,'' said Jean-Jacques Surbeck of California, who started an Internet chat room called WhitherAREOff-site Link.

``Because he bears the name Cayce, they cannot shake the idea that he must be a replica of his grandfather. That makes it very difficult for members like me and a few others who wish to cast a more critical eye, not so much on the individual per se, but simply on his performance,'' he said.
(...)

Seeing trouble ahead, the A.R.E. board of trustees brought in a new management team in 1999.

Gerald L. Martin and Michael L. Dempsey were named the executive directors. They formed an alliance with employees Ronald B. Smith, a legal analyst; Robert V. Phelps, a program manager; and Nancy A. Young, A.R.E.'s human resources manager.

They proposed sweeping changes, including rewriting A.R.E.'s mission statement to focus more on Christ. They wanted to cut wasteful spending, increase marketing and create a long-term plan.
(...)

But quickly, there was dissension among the ranks. Staff morale plummeted and instead of turning around the organization, financial losses grew and membership continued sinking. Within a year, the board fired Martin and Dempsey and the others were forced out, according to their lawyer.

The five are suing A.R.E., claiming they were wrongfully terminated and defamed on WhitherARE, Surbeck's Internet chat room that has been airing A.R.E.'s dirty laundry since May 2000.

Martin, Dempsey and the three other former employees claim that Surbeck led the charge to have them fired, in part because of their religious beliefs. According to postings on WhitherARE, Martin and Dempsey were accused of trying to turn A.R.E. into a fundamentalist Christian organization.

``There was a feeling that they were pushing a heavy Christian agenda down everyone's throats,'' said K. Paul Johnson, an author and A.R.E. member from South Boston, Va.

What turned many members against Dempsey and Martin began with their proposal for a new mission statement, which began: ``To be a Christ-centered. . . '' and included frequent references to God, Jesus and Christ.

``That's what we're all about,'' said Phelps, who said he was forced out after Dempsey and Martin were fired.

The current mission statement has no references to Jesus or Christ.

According to the suit filed June 1 in state court, Surbeck, Todeschi, Green, board member Max Preston and employee Kieth VonderOhe accused the five of burning books, using Gestapo tactics, calling them Jesus freaks and comparing them to the Mafia and Satan.

Each of the five is seeking $3.5 million in the lawsuit.
(...)

Martin, Phelps, Smith and Young now run a Christian organization called Preparing the Way, whose motto is ``Building a closer relationship with God through Christ.''
[...more...] [Need the full story? Read this]
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Commentary:
A.R.E.'s teachings and practices are incompatible with historical, orthodox Christianity.

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posted October 22, 2009 01:48 AM            

I was really focused on this:

"The planet Pluto the seventh planet from the Earth and is associated with the afterlife realm referred to as the realm of consciousness. This afterlife realm is the realm for the final development of full consciousness. The planet Pluto was discussed by Cayce years before it was actually discovered! He referred to it as Vulcan and also as Septimus. When Pluto was discovered, Cayce affirmed that Vulcan or Septimus was the same planet as Pluto. The Pluto realm of the afterlife brings regeneration and a growth in consciousness, but also can bring self-centeredness. Pluto represents spiritual growth and development of the soul and its influence is just now developing in the destiny of humanity." http://www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce08.html

I don't know about you, but I don't see a WOW in that. As we all know, many objects orbit beyond Neptune. They number into the thousands. There are quite a few big ones besides Pluto like Eris,Makemake,Haumea,Sedna,Orcus,Varuna,Ixion,2005 AWR 197,2002 TX300,and 2007 OR10).

There were other beliefs about Vulcan,but not as a transneptunian object. It was an inner solar system planet.

let me point out that the founder of the Hamburg School/Uranian Astrology, Alfred Witte also believed that there were objects that orbited beyond Neptune before Pluto was discovered, and he came up with his own to use in Uranian Astrology. He believed that there had to be other objects to use in Astrology to explain events that were not explained by the regular planets.

he came up with the following transneptunians:
Cupido,Hades,Zeus,and Kronos

none of them fit the orbit of Pluto nor any of the other transneptunians that have been discovered. They also have perfectly circular orbits unlike any object in our solar system. Therefore,they are unnatural.

of course, Percival Lowell theorized the existence of Planet X ,but he miscalculated. Clyde Tombaugh followed on those calculations,and ended up finding Pluto. Of course, he didn't find them because of those calculations. He just came across Pluto by chance. Pluto was on the ecliptic at the time,and so that made it easy for Clyde Tombaugh to find it. Makemake was only 2 degrees off the ecliptic at the time, but it was hard to find in the background of stars.

other mystics including some astrologers
came up with hypothetical planets that include Hermes,Morya,Isis,Sigma,Osiris,Lion

http://www.librarising.com/space/unknown.html

none of them have been discovered yet.

some make aspects to my personal planets/points,but I am skeptical that they have any significance.

Morya in 11'16 Sagittarius in 4th
oppose/conjunct my Midheaven/Imum Coeli in 11'14 Gemini/Sagittarius
sextile/trine Lunar Nodes in 10'30 Aquarius/Leo in 6th and 12th

Hermes in 13'44 Pisces R in 7th
oppose/conjunct my Ascendant/Descendant in 13'27 Virgo/Pisces

Isis in 5'16 Gemini in 10th
conjunct Saturn in 5'08 Gemini in 9th
square Moon in 3'11 Pisces in 7th
quincunx Sun in 5'20 in 2nd

Pan in 25'02 Aries R in 8th
sextile Mars in 25'54 Aquarius in 6th

Midas in 26'32 Taurus R in 9th
square Mars in 25'54 Aquarius

Sigma in 12'40 Aries R in 8th
conjunct Eris in 12'15 Aries R in 8th
quincunx/semisextile Ascendant/Descendant

Osiris in 27'45 Libra in 2nd
trine Mars
semisquare/sesquiquadrate Ascendant/Descendant - '41

any ways...another thing, even if these hypothetical planets are never discovered, there can be the argument that these planets do exist but they are located on a much higher plane,and so they cannot be detected by human technology. They would say that they can only be located by the use of the 3rd eye.

so there is always an out.

who knows...maybe all of us have discovered planets. I had lucids dreams of me traveling/flying like Superman into outerspace at light speed in lucid dreams to other planets and meeting aliens. I even had dream of experimentation being on me (was strapped in a chair and was made to read certain things with my eyes closed), but I don't take them seriously. Besides, I have watched so much science fiction like Star Wars,Star Trek,Battle Star Galactica, Voltron,Robotech/Macross,and other things in my life,and so I am bound to have dreams and visualizations about planets and aliens...especially with my vivid imagination (Moon in Pisces square Neptune in 4th,Mercury parallel Neptune,Mercury conjunct Sun/Neptune midpoint as well as the strong transneptunian stuff)

If I tell that stuff to psychiatrists and tell them that it's all real, and then there goes a prescription for Risperdal,Zyprexa,or some other anti-psychotic.

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"