posted April 25, 2012 05:00 PM            

I should add here that this is a relationship which ended in 2006 but which seemed to follow me throughout the time that we were apart and affected, to some degree, my following relationship. The man in question here ended things after only 6 months, even though we had a fabulous relationship, and then came back to tell me that he was in love with me and had made a mistake when I had already tried to move on. When I challenged him with my belief that if I were to say "yes" to him right then and there, he would probably run off again immediately, he couldn't deny that. Anyhow, I have no idea if we are twin flames or not. All I can say is that I have never felt that way about another human being or had another relationship quite like that one. And it took me three years to "get over" him. I still love him very much and I know I always will. He has told me the same.

SUN and MOON

His Sun oppose my Moon (3)

TWINFLAME PAIRINGS

Synastry:

My Groom oppose his Briede (2)
My Adonis conjunct his Astarte (0)
My Isis conjunct his Osiris (3)
My Osiris sextile his Isis (0)
My Siva square his Kaali (0)
My Eros quincunx his Psyche (0)
My Solomin septile his Sheba (0)

Composite:

My Briede oppose his Groom (1)

ATLANTIS

Synastry:

My Atlantis conjunct his SN (1)
My Atlantis oppose his Siva (3)

(Technically, the following don't count but we also have his Atlantis sextile my Ariadne (1) though no twin flame pairing of the same above. My Atlantis conjuncts his Osiris but with a 6 degree orb. My Atlantis conjuncts his Dionysus (0) which I thought interesting since we had *alot* of talks about Dionysus/Bacchus in our relationship.)

Composite:

Atlantis square Briede (1)
Atlantis square Groom (0)
Atlantis square Solomin (0)
Atlantis conjunct Sheba (0)
Atlantis oppose Parvati (3) - this one, since it did not show up in the twin flame original paining s may not be valid

NODES

My NN conjunct his Sun (2)
His NN trine my Jupiter (0)

ANGLES

My ASC square his ASC (1)

7th HARMONIC

My Solomin septile his Sheba (0) (mentioned above also)
His Astarte septile my Adonis (is a 2.5 deg orb too much?)
His Osiris septile my MC
His Bacchus septile my ASC

HOUSE RULERS

Ruler of his 1st House (Neptune) opposite my ASC (2)
Ruler of his 7th House (Mercury) opposite my ASC (0)
Ruler of his 8th House (Venus) trine my ASC (0)
Ruler of his 2nd House (Mars) quincunx ruler of my 7th (Jupiter) (0)

I also would like to include the 5th House though I know it may not be pertinent: Ruler of his 5th House (Moon) trine ruler of my 7th House (Jupiter) (0)

And before I go, I thought I would put a few extra aspects down here which were not asked for but which may be of note...?

His Atlantis square my Vertex (1)
My Atlantis sextile his Vertex (0)
My NN conjunct his Juno (1)
My Moon oppose his Juno (0)
My name asteroid in my chart conjunct his SN (0)
His name asteroid in his chart conjunct my Jupiter (ruler of
my 7th House (2)
His name asteroid in my chart conjunct his Saturn (1)
My name asteroid in his chart is also conjunct Osiris and Valentine in his chart and they all conjunct Isis in my chart (0,1,2)
Lust conjunct ASC Double Whammy (0) - that one was just fun

Composite Lust conjunct Ascendant (0)

posted April 25, 2012 05:18 PM            

"LINDA JONES .... Just want to add here for you ... see point 5 above. You have a hit between your moon and his Sun/Moon midpoint. This is going to be included in the next version under Sun/Moon factors."

Yes, thank you. Ceridwen has helped me understand.

"EDIT : PS ... Just to let you know that I am going on a short holiday from Friday to next week Wednesday and will be off the grid, so will not be posting during that time. Not ignoring you!!!"

Thanks for letting us know. Hope you have a terrific time!

"BTW ... please analyse the rest of the theory against your chart and Mr Pisces Moon as well, as I would be really interested to see if you have hits in the other categories. Your relationship seems to be a definite “suspect” for TwinFlame in my opinion and it would be so exciting if it fitted with the theory."

posted April 25, 2012 06:00 PM            

Just edit your post above to add the missed ones (include the orbs though).

It's pretty late in the night where Taineberry and Ceridwen are, so you have time to go over your post before they get to it.

I completely relate to your comment about "so much to take in." But I'm having fun learning as I go along.

posted April 26, 2012 02:38 AM            

While including the axis, angles, and Nodes, I wonder about your thoughts on including the Vertex and Anti-Vertex axis? From everything I've read about it on LL (mostly researched by Lotis White), it seems to be crucial in relationships.

Here's what I found on one web site:
http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/709535ac-a0d4-4fec-bf85-6a813fbff606

Anti-vertex: The Supernatural Membrane

To quote only parts of the article:

"The Anti-vertex and Vertex are not tangible celestial bodies, but points where energy patterns are focused in our charts."

posted April 26, 2012 03:05 AM            

"Amor/Valentine – I will put this in as an EXTRA “must have” (Point H) as we discussed. Are there any other asteroids that fall into this category that you can think of?"

How about the following:

1) LUST/VALENTINE-only bringing up Lust as iQ had commented on YTA's composite w/ his wife and Lust is in the 7H

2) SOOTIYO/SOOMANA: Don't know the story behind this pair but it's been mentioned as a soul mate pair.

posted April 26, 2012 03:34 AM            

But I did some more research on a different asteroid pair and found out the following:

As you know Shiva/Parvati/Kaali are the Hindu deities representing the union of yin and yang. The Hindu enactment of the Heiros Gamos is through the practice of Tantra-a spiritual discipline where the practitioners worship the above mentioned Hindu Deities-these we've already included in the HG theory.

Next: I think it is commonly known that Buddhism, which originated in India (Buddha was a Hindu Prince), gradually spread further east to Nepal and Tibet. Well, so did the practice of Tantra.

Here's what I found on TANTRIC BUDDHISM:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hieros_gamos

"In Tantric Buddhism of India, Bhutan, Nepal and Tibet, yab-yum is a ritual of the male deity in union with his female consort. The symbolism is associated with Anuttarayoga tantra where the male figure is usually linked to COMPASSION (karuṇā and skillful means (upāya-kauśalya), and the female partner to 'insight' or WISDOM(prajñā .[10][11] Yab-yum is generally understood to represent the primordial (or mystical) union of wisdom and compassion.[12]

Maithuna at Khajuraho Temples:

Maithuna is a Sanskrit term used in Tantra most often translated as sexual union in a ritual context. It is the most important of the five makara and constitutes the main part of the Grand Ritual of Tantra variously known as Panchamakara, Panchatattva, and Tattva Chakra.

The symbolism of union and polarity is a central teaching in Tantric Buddhism, especially in Tibet. The union is realized by the practitioner as a mystical experience within one's own body."

Based on this, and the fact that Tibetan Tantra is the most widely practiced form of Tantra in the west, I thought why not check out COMPASSION/WISDOM as a yin/yang pairing.

If ya'll think it makes sense, then perhaps, Ceridwen you wouldn't mind running it in your list of "usual suspects"?

Anyway, this is all I have as far as the TF pairings go.

posted April 26, 2012 06:25 AM            

I am wishing you a splendid trip (though I am sorry we can`t be continuing our discussion int he meantime).

posted April 26, 2012 06:27 AM            

on the IC:
It is the deepest point in our chart, symbolically relating to midnight, and thus it represents the very core of our soul, including those parts we do not want to let anyone see, or only people who are very intimately known to us like family (and sometimes not even these) or soulmates.

posted April 26, 2012 06:52 AM            

I find it always difficult to say or believe two people are twinflames, especially if they haven´t been married happily for a million years.

The problem I see is that most karmic relationships also start with that insane attraction and the feeling of: this is the one, my other half.

What often happens with karmic mates though, is that afterwards it is like they are waking up and say: Jeez, what did I EVER see in her/ in him? I can`t stand that guy!

I don´t think this is happening with soulmates or twinflames. Even if their relationship does not work out, the undercurrent of love will always be there (though we have to be careful to differentiate that from obsessing with a relationship or person or projecting unfulfilled needs of that "ideal relationship", which, had it been ideal, probably would still be going strong.)

Having said that I definitely believe that there are twinflames who "run", because they are not ready for their union yet.

Maybe you and him are an example of this.

very strong framework:
---------------------------------
His Sun oppose my Moon (3)
My NN conjunct his Sun (2)
My ASC square his ASC (1)
Ruler of his 1st House (Neptune) opposite my ASC (2) (conjunct your DESC)
Ruler of his 7th House (Mercury) opposite my ASC (0) (conjunct your DESC)
Ruler of his 8th House (Venus) trine my ASC (0)

maybe the soulattraction was a bit stronger on your side, which makes sense seeing that HE ran.
(your Moon and DESC are receptive energies)

Twinflamepairings
------------------
very strong!

primary:
synastry:
My Groom oppose his Briede (2)
My Adonis conjunct his Astarte (0)
My Isis conjunct his Osiris (3)

Composite:
My Briede oppose his Groom (1)

secondary:
synastry
My Osiris sextile his Isis (0)
My Siva square his Kaali (0)
My Eros quincunx his Psyche (0)
My Solomin septile his Sheba (0)

composite:
Solomin square Sheba, right?

Are your Solomin and his Sheba in compatible elements?

the complimentary connection is strong due to three conjunctions/opposition.

But it also seems challenging, as there are three challenging aspects (square, quinkunx) to only one smooth one (sextile)

It is a significant aconnection nevertheless, as can be easily seen by the exactness of the aspects.
Soulattraction would be immensely strong, but volatile and too intense maybe.
Are you very young?
maybe you simply need to mature a bit on your own?

Atlantis:
----------

ATLANTIS

Synastry:
My Atlantis conjunct his SN (1)
Definitely speaks of a past life in Atlantis, with you haveing the most awareness probably.

his Atlantis sextile my Ariadne (1)
My Atlantis conjuncts his Dionysus (0)
This is a linked twinflame aspect through Atlantis (something I was going to suggest to Taineberry anyway, as I think it is important and maybe even necessary).

It is very tight, it includes a conjunction, and a harmonious supportive sextile.
Ariadnes-Dionysos I have termed for myself "soulmates/twinflames of the second chance", so that looks actually pretty nice.

which I thought interesting since we had *alot* of talks about Dionysus/Bacchus in our relationship.)
How do you mean that?

Atlantis though is where your problems may come from.

Just look at your composite:
A near perfect T-square of Briede-Groom-opposition to Atlantis.

Plus an exact pattern of Atlantis conjunct Sheba, squaring Solomin.

This is too much friction there I think, obstacles and separations and bumps in the road.
Also it seems that the Yang-principle is especially "afflicted" seeing that Groom and Solomin are BOTH squaring Atlantis.
But the Yin isn´t too happy either, you seem to be torn; Sheba conjunct Atlantis striving for merging and union, while Briede squaring Atlantis keeps the distance as well and feels high inner tension.

on other things:
5th house may not be twinflamey, but it is great and necessary to create romantic sparks.

"Lust conjunct ASC Double Whammy (0) - that one was just fun

Composite Lust conjunct Ascendant "
LOL

Lust is a fun-one, of course it speaks of great attraction, but it is purely sexual and pretty selfcentred at that, so it needs to be balanced out by great Amor or Valentine aspects indicating love, then it can be an amazing experience.

posted April 26, 2012 07:04 AM            

the Vertex is very significant, it is "electric", and indicates fated encounters.

Fated in the sense that they come "out of the blue" and presents us with a turning point (it means "peak" and indicates the moment of a change in direction).

This means that it is highly charged with energy if someone activates our Vertex and we experience it as fateful and that our life "will never be as it was once before", but it doesn`t mean the person, who became catalyst for that change, is going to stay in our life forever. Sometimes they will, sometimes their only "purpose" in our life is to bring us to this turning point, and after they did, they will disappear from our lives again.

posted April 26, 2012 07:13 AM            

"2) SOOTIYO/SOOMANA: Don't know the story behind this pair but it's been mentioned as a soul mate pair."
it is Hopi for "Starboy" and "Stargirl" (and I love that pairing!).

But the thing is that there is not much of a background story. It seems similiar to Briede and Groom, but is not as personalized as the mythic pairings.
the mythic pairings also get extra strength, because most of them had a cult associated with them, and thus the energy was being transferred right into the collective experience/memory, making it stronger.

"3) JUPITER/JUNO: Ceridwen, you'd checked this out in your research and were surprised by its prevalence. "
Yes, but let`s not forget there are "normal" marriages, too.
Curiously their marriage has been called Heiros Gamos, BUT I don´t think they qualify, just because they becmae entangled in a constant powerplay/powerstruggle with him cheating on her all the time, and her punishing him or his mistresses cruelly. There was no complimentary union between them, but a cyclic relationship.
There was no aspect of resurrection either.

I think they might figure quite strongly in making a marriage happen, as a social construct, but they do not necessarily enhance the emotional quality of it, though there is quite some passion aroused with these two, and a struggle for equality.

On Compassion and Wisdom (which curiously are exactly sextile in my chart, with Compassion being on my MC and Wisdom on my ASC and Atlantis. lol)

The thinking is interesting, but I doN´t think they will figure as strongly, because they are "abstracts" instead of the personification of Isis and Osiris for example.
They might still figure in, but not as primary pairing.
But let`s wait what Taineberry thinks.

I DID check the three suspected twinflame couples, but neither had any aspect between Compassion and Wisdom (and I checked all, synastry, composite, 7th harmonic).

posted April 26, 2012 01:43 PM            

The one thing I can say is that although our relationship definitely held elements of karma within it, I do not believe that that's all it was. We've always had a psychic link that was so strong that I could feel when he left the country even though we had not talked in almost a year. I would have dreams about him after our relationship ended, telling me specific facts about his life that I ended up being able to confirm later on from him. I do agree that I was the one who consciously recognized our previous soul encounters (the moment I laid eyes on him in fact).

I have no idea how to 'label' us, but I do know that our connection is incredibly strong. As for age, I will be 36 shortly and he is turning 40 this year, so not really spring chickens at this point

As for the Solomin/Sheba composite square, Solomin is in the 7th house/Libra and Sheba is in the 4th (tightly conjunct Atlantis and Isis and loosely conjunct Moon) in Cancer.

As for speaking of Dionysus a lot, it was mostly him who brought it up. He was always referring to his internal struggle of Dionysus vs Apollo. He used this to reference his feelings quite a lot (I was always silently convinced that he had a past life in Greece). After we broke up, he actually travelled to Greece, came back and told me that everything there reminded him of me and he wished that I had been there with him. This had been his first international trip even though he was in his mid-thirties at the time and funnily enough, my first international trip (at 17) was to Italy and Greece.

There are tons of other (lifelong) synchronicities and connections between us that are just plain odd and interesting. But I suppose I don't need to go in to all of them

As for Amor/Valentine aspects, I know that these have not formally been introduced into the framework here, however I thought I would include some of our aspects in case it adds something. If not, just disregard them

His Amor oppose my Saturn (2)
My Amor sextile his Dionysus (2)

His Valentine conjunct my Dionysus (1)
My Valentine trine his Dionysus (1)

My Amor trine his NN (2) and Vertex (1)
My Valentine oppose his Vertex (1)
His Valentine trine my NN (1)
My Valentine sextile his NN (1)

His Amor trine my ASC (2)
His Valentine sextile my Juno (0)

His Valentine sextile my Moon (0)
My Valentine oppose his Moon (0)

Also, his Valentine sextile my Amor but the orb is 3 degrees.

I agree with what you said about Atlantis being where the problems likely come from. I had the same thought when going through all the info. And yes, I agree with you that clearly there is some reason why we did not end up together but I don't think we are merely karmic mates.
(Edited to add: though admittedly we do/did have karma together)

posted April 26, 2012 02:29 PM            

I only have time for a quick question at the moment so I thought I'd go ahead and ask (I'd like to comment on some of your recent replies a bit later-but thank you for all your answers).

Since the 12th harmonic is being considered imp. as it encapsulates the sextile, square, trine, quincunx, and opposition--would the semi-sextile (30 deg) aspect have any importance in the HG theory?

Included in the definition of semi-sextile in Wikipedia is the following:

"Along the lines of Dane Rudhyar, Michael R. Meyer developed the idea of a pair of distinctly different semi-sextiles: the waxing and the waning. From Virgo the semi-sextile with Libra is waxing and with Leo is waning. The waxing semi-sextile indicates motivation from the past while the waning semi-sextile is more involved with to consolidating and learning from the past"

posted April 26, 2012 04:36 PM            

Oh, I have one more question that I was hoping to clarify. Earlier in the conversation, you and Linda Jones were speaking of the Sun/Moon midpoint of one person conjuncting a luminary of the other person being an acceptable Sun/Moon factor.

I know that generally speaking, I keep a pretty tight orb on midpoints but since you are allowing up to six degrees for conjunctions and oppositions in the comp and synastry, I wondered what your "final orb" would be in this case

For example, my Sun is at 1'58 Cancer and my Venus is at 3'22 Cancer. If someone's Sun/Moon mid point was at 6 degrees Cancer, would this count as a Sun/Moon connection within the framework you've developed here given that the orb is 4 degrees?

posted April 26, 2012 11:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sorcha:
If someone's Sun/Moon mid point was at 6 degrees Cancer, would this count as a Sun/Moon connection within the framework you've developed here given that the orb is 4 degrees?

Thanks!

---

No.
The orb with midpoints has to be very tight. I am giviing 2 degrees and even that seems to be a generous orb for midpoints (most astrologers only allow for one degree).

BTW I wasn`t specifically referring to you with my rant on karmic relationships being mistaken for twinflame relationships; it was more a disclaimer.

The system of course is not finished yet.
I very much would check for Amor/Valentine to the luminaries, angles, nodes and Atlantis primarily.
I see you have an exact DW of Moon-Valentine, this looks quite emotional and loving. I really like that aspect.

and you also have a Valentine-NN-DW. That is really nice.

posted April 27, 2012 03:30 AM            

I agree that the midpoint must be tight as well. I usually give an orb of 2 degrees myself. And yes, all those Valentine DW's were indeed nice. And so you know, I didn't think you were ranting or anything about karmic vs soulmate/twinflame relationships. I just wanted to say that although I don't know what to label mine, I know it's not only karmic Also, I think we have pretty much the same idea of karma.

posted April 27, 2012 04:07 AM            

I have been discussing with a friend of mine, and she totally disagrees with the use of the 7th harmonic.
She did, however, remind me of the 9th harmonic, which has been used for centuries by the Vedic as marriage chart and soul(mate) chart.

What is your stance on it?

(Personally I am trying to keep open to all sides; as you know I was sceptical about the use of the 7th harmonic as well at first, but your reasoning did make much sense to me, and I am not sure how the 9th chart could relate to twinflames; on the other hand there must be a reason it is so extensively used in one branch of astrology. lol)

"1) but still include the trine/sextile for now .....and dump the quincunx and septile. "
Agreed.

" was wondering if a couple who have the “framework” but not the Atlantis / Twinflame Asteroid could potentially be “TwinFlames who are not ready yet” ie. "
Yes, that is a possibility.

" which prevent a relationship from developing properly."
Though it seems that the framework usually is enough to make people develop relationships.
Especially the ASC-DESc-axis seems to be necessary to "manifest" a relationship on the earthly plane.

"What do you think is the best way to phrase it for the theory – as a harmonic or as an aspect?"
Good question.
The harmonic chart makes it easy to spot the septile-aspect, though sometimes it will not be a septile, but a conjunction you are looking at, as it is not differentiated in the harmonic chart.
also it might get confusing.

Deos astro.com indicate the septile-series? If it does, it would make more sense to look at the harmonic aspect instead of the chart.
In the other case we would need to limit ourselves to only use the chart to look for conjunctions in it and exclude the possibility that there is already a conjunction in 1st harmonic.

"Are there any other asteroids that fall into this category that you can think of?"
I don´t think we should extend the set too much, or things might become arbitrary (though I have been thinking about "union-asteroids" lol).

Anyway Amor and Valentine seem to work very reliably.

"pecial because the relationship has both – the Resonance where they “vibe” together because they share a soul harmonic frequency AND there is karmic history – pos or neg – so it is not necessarily all plain sailing."
Agreed.

"You could write a book on that alone!!"
LOL

BTW what do you think of the asteroids SOOTYO and SOOMANA? There is no myth attached to them as far as I know, but they indicate a pairing: Star BOY and star GIRL, and in this regard resemble Briede and Groom.

"being Saturn on the South Node in synastry. I have this in double whammy with my husband! Ohhhh, that is a subject for another day!!!"
LOL
Now you`ve got me curious!
Do you think he is your tf?

Well, my Mum`s Saturn is exactly conjunct my Dad`s SN - it seems to be a very binding aspect. You don´t just simply walk away from that.

posted April 27, 2012 07:35 AM            

And noticed that I had the wrong image in mind.
There are actually 12 individuals in one primary soulgroup (including the twinflame), instead of 6 (there are 6 combined sets of twin souls though).
So wouldn`t the 13th harmonic make more sense in terms of the primary soulgroup?
And even the 3rd harmonic for the single set of twin souls?

There is also a system that uses 12 chakras as I just learned, and since the twinflames chakras do connect with each other on reunion (plus Higher Self/One), that would lead me to the 13th harmonic again?

I am just thinking aloud here.

posted April 28, 2012 06:37 AM            

instead of orbs I gave the strength of the aspect pertaining to the orb (for easier comparision as in the 7th harmonic 7 degrees equal one degree in natal and in the 13th harmonic 13 degrees equal one degree in natal, and the one degree has been my guiding line).

I checked for conjunctions in the harmonic chart with would relate to the septile series for the 7th harmonic chart and the 13th harmonic aspects in the 13th harmonic chart.
I also noted oppositions, which are not technically aspects of that sequence, but seeing that the opposition represents duality/ polarity/ complimentarity, it menas that it reflects the complimentarity in relation to the 7th or 13th chart, and assuming one or both of these relating to soulgroups and even twinflames it makes sense to look at the opposition as well.