posted May 05, 2012 12:10 PM            

"Perfect explanation f the nodal axis. "

posted May 05, 2012 02:13 PM            

Ceri - I went through your latest version on page 11, and it is looking good, and pretty much agree totally with your logic.

The only "possible" suggestions I have at this stage is:

For the 13th harmonic, I think we should allow for not just a tridec sun/moon aspect, but a tridec between any combo of sun/moon/angles/nodes in a double whammy.

eg Either : Sun tridec Moon

or

His Sun tridec her Node and her Moon tridec his Node

(this would fall in line with what you have allowed in the 13th for the TF asteroids in a "link to the frame" aspect)

Another thing ... I just stumbled across by chance a few minutes ago is the Sabian Symbol at 26 Libra which is :

"PHASE 206 (LIBRA 26°): AN EAGLE AND A LARGE WHITE DOVE CHANGE INTO EACH OTHER.

KEYNOTE: The interaction of the spiritual Will and of the Love principle when critical needs arise.

This sequence of symbols concluding the Libra phase of the cycle deals with problems met by the seeker for the fulfillment of a higher life of Relationship. Implied here is a kind of Yang-Yin interplay. When the circle encompassing both principles rotates fast, they appear to change into each other. Consciousness operates beyond duality, because the polarized energies of the Soul (or spirit). Will and Love, though ever distinct, work for a single purpose.

This is the first stage of the forty-second five-fold set of symbolic phases. It represents a new, higher approach to the use of polarized forces within the personality which has been ever so little transformed and operating within a new framework. The Keyword ADEPTNESS fits this phase — but there are many levels of "adept-ship"!"

....It would be so cool if TwinFlames were found to have something significant there!

BTW you asked earlier if I thought my husband and I were twinflames because of Saturn DW on the South Node. Answer is "Nope". But we have a strong karmic bond which is why we have been married 28 years. I am aware of what some of it is through past life regression.

posted May 05, 2012 03:21 PM            

I didn't find quite what I thought I would but wondered what you guys thought about it:

My Atlantis trine his Jessie (2)
My Jessie square his Mary (2)
My Mary square his ASC (0)

My Jessie opposite his Sun (1)
His Jessie opposite my Sun (1)

His Mary conjunct my MC (1)
My Yeshua conjunct his MC (1)

When I looked at the 13th Harmonic, I found it really interesting (and maybe not applicable here) that we have:

Maria tridecim Maria in Capricorn
Mary tridecim Mary in Taurus
Yeshua tridecim Yeshua in Cancer
Jessie tridecim Jessie in Virgo

posted May 05, 2012 08:33 PM            

Did you try looking in the 13th harmonic charts as well for the Yeshua/Maria/Jessie/Mary connection, with or without Atlantis? Only 2 aspects count-conjunction (up to 12 orb) and opposition (up to 6 orb).

In the 1st harmonic (natal), don't know if you're also looking at your composite- conjunctions and oppositions are more powerful.

posted May 05, 2012 08:45 PM            

"Linda - your Mary/Jessie/Node hits are awesome in your synastry. As Ceri says, the Nodal link is so important it is symbolic of the soul journey and when this ties in with the spiritual attunement symbolized by the twinflame asteroids, well .... that is just beautiful."

posted May 05, 2012 08:52 PM            

After I read Ceridwen's info on the significance and differences between the Helio, Draco, and Tropical charts,(on Lioness's thread), I thought it would make sense to look at these for the TF theory.

posted May 05, 2012 09:56 PM            

If you look at the last aspects I listed, those are the 13th harmonic aspects. All the conjunctions were exact or up to 6 degrees

posted May 05, 2012 11:20 PM            

27°42
55°24
83°06
110°48
138°30
166°12

As Ceridwen explained to me the orb for these should be a max of 1 degree only (harmonic astrologers only use 0.55) when checking for these aspects in the natal and composite.

However if you do the actual 13th harmonic charts (can do them easily on astro.com), then only 2 aspects are being considered-conjunction (max orb of 12) and opposition (max orb of 6).

So I guess I wasn't sure whether you'd done the 13th harmonic charts as well. My reasoning behind that suggestion was for you to see if you found something additional there.

posted May 06, 2012 06:13 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Linda Jones:
Sorcha,

Did you try looking in the 13th harmonic charts as well for the Yeshua/Maria/Jessie/Mary connection, with or without Atlantis? Only 2 aspects count-conjunction (up to 12 orb) and opposition (up to 6 orb).

In the 1st harmonic (natal), don't know if you're also looking at your composite- conjunctions and oppositions are more powerful.

Also the since your last post, the most recent revision of the "framework" is on page 11. Some new asteroid pairs have been added like Compassion/Wisdom. I would look for these also.

---

As a matter of fact, forget about the opposition.
The conjunction in 13th harmonic chart already can be reflecting of SIX different 13th harmonic aspects plus the conjunction from 1st harmonic / natal.

posted May 06, 2012 06:40 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Linda Jones:
Taineberry and Ceridwen,

After I read Ceridwen's info on the significance and differences between the Helio, Draco, and Tropical charts,(on Lioness's thread), I thought it would make sense to look at these for the TF theory.

What do you both think about adding this info (not sure in what way exactly) to the framework perhaps. Or maybe just a way to double check synastries?

---

My tentative thought is that the analysis sheet probably has to be run through ALL zodiacs (tropical, Draco, helio) and the results have to be compared.
Additionally we would have to check for tight conjunctions between these different zodiacs (esp. to tropical), as these are like channells/ portals through the different dimensions of soul, Higher Self and body
btw interestingly these zodicas also correlate with our triune bodys, consisting of SPIRIT - heliocentric-, SOUL - Draconic-, and BODY - tropical; and also correlate of course with SUN= Spirit, Moon=Soul, Earth= Body.

Merging points of these three are being expressed in:
- nodal axis
- (Sun/Moon-midpoint)
- Black Moon Lilith

" Perhaps the most subtle and intriguing of the three Liliths, Black Moon is not a physical body but an abstract, geometrical point, like the Ascendant or the Vertex. It is the second center of the Moon¹s elliptical orbit around the Earth. An ellipse has two centers, rather than one like perfect circle. The Earth is one center and Black Moon Lilith is the other. Another way to describe this point is as the apogee of the Moon¹s orbit--the place where it is the farthest from Earth.
The center of gravity between the Earth and Moon is inside the Earth. As part of the Earth-Moon system, Black Moon is a point or energetic vortex intimately bound to the center of the Earth. Black Moon and Earth are the two centers or the double center, around which the Moon orbits. Lilith is a twin to the core energy of the Earth, the deep heart of fire. This is the central fire that feeds and sustains our Earth bodies. The creative vitality of the Sun gives life to the Earth and fuels this central core fire. The center of gravity between the Moon and Earth is within the Earth. It is as if Black Moon pulls away from that center and brings the Moon closer to the Sun, Black Moon being the furthest point of the Moon from Earth."

and "As a center point of the Moon¹s orbit, Black Moon Lilith works in relationship with the Earth-Moon system and with the Sun. As a second center of reference, she gives a sense of rhythm to the Earth, taking the dynamics of relationship beyond the personal Moon-Venus energies into subtle dimensions that are essential to our reasons for being on and of Earth. Representing the closest reach of the Moon to the Sun, she is also a reference point in our personal lives that brings us into relationship with the heart of our Sun-fueled experience on Earth, an emotional intelligence informed by the wisdom of earthy instinct." http://www.heliastar.com/triplegoddess.html#blackmoon

Of course we would have to decide first WHAT exactly makes for a strong or weak result.

And doing all this would take an extremely much amount of analysis work. You`d be on one analysis for days. lol

And even after that you`d have to check what is lying dormant and what is being activated (transits, progressions, directions).

posted May 06, 2012 10:53 AM            

It's interesting that the helio, draco, and tropical correspond to the triune bodies, the merging points for which are-

-nodal axis-thankfully I now understand how
-Sun/Moon midpoint-for some time now, I'd felt this was very imp.
-Black Moon Lilith-never delved into this, tho I've been meaning to. Thanks for the info on this.

Yes, I can see that some decisions will have to be made re: making the analysis do-able within a reasonable time period.

posted May 06, 2012 11:30 AM            

Well, I usually have them during meditation, in my sleep or in hypagnogic state of mind.

Common features:

° change in the density of the energy field around me: everything seems to slow down, getting distorted and drawled out, move with slowed speed, until I have really settled into this.

° I never intend to have one, most of the time I do not even want to have them

° I become the person in that recall. I experience, feel everything she does, down to physical sensations.

In my first recall (during a meditation) I couldn´th ardly read and write! It felt so strange afterwards, but I remembered that during it it just was like it. And I felt slightly different. Like a different way to feel emotions. Definitely not as mental as I am now.

One of the most horrible ones I have had led me back into a concentration camp in Brno. That is something that is odd, when I woke up I thought I was making up things, but I hardly could believe that this gathering of letters should be a word, let alone a town.
I looked it up and it turned out it actually was a town; jsut I had not dreamed of its German name, but its Czech name! (I do not speak Czech at all. But I do not speak Russian either, though my mom swears as a kid I did when talking in my sleep. lol).
During that research I also found out that indeed there had been a concentration camp there, though noone seems toreally remember it anymore, as only the big ones are being mentioned.

Well, the thing is, in that dream/ recall what I remember most is the HUNGER. I have never known hunger in my life, but I can`t really describe what it felt like. I would hae done Anything for a bit of bread. ANYTHING. As a matter of fact I think I DID anything.
as I said to someone in that dream: "Pride and dignity is something for the fed."

In my present life noone ever really picked on me or bullied me (hard to believe, hu?), at least not much, but in that dream I felt very clearly how it is to be without any value, to be less than nothing,b ut there was no selfpity attached to it. It was as it was. There was not even hate, there was simply this steely will to somehow survive, from day to day.

I usually have very dramatic recalls, not really of having been a celebrity, but even regular people can have tragic lives. lol

For some reason I do not recall my "normal" lives. WEll, in the first one I was pretty normal and simply going through life, being widowed and remarried and then dying myself.

The totally creepy thing is that, in that one I dreamed of life dates and names! My first husband`s name in that life, and the name of one of our songs, who was 5 at the time the recall started.

I had that recall in 1991, looooong before i ever had access to the internet.

In 2005 I suddenly rememebered that recall again (I had taken notes back then) and just for fun googled my husband`s name
I immediately stumbled across his genealogy, and even his death date fit!
AS well as my life dates, though I did not remember the year I died, only the day (it was christmas, you notice something like that). lol
The fact that I was remarried (and that my second`s husband`s name curiously had the same name, one of my assumed soulmates used at psydonyme at the time I got awareness of him and had that past life recall, though it was not primarily about him).
That there were a gazillion kids, down to the kid I had dreamed of; the name AND the date fit as well.

It was creepy to be honest.

EDIT:
I did actually have one or two very happy recalls, too. lol

posted May 06, 2012 01:10 PM            

It's very mystical-these recalls you've had. Do you meditate regularly?

posted May 07, 2012 01:29 AM            

"nd it is looking good, and pretty much agree totally with your logic."
Thanks.

"For the 13th harmonic, I think we should allow for not just a tridec sun/moon aspect, but a tridec between any combo of sun/moon/angles/nodes in a double whammy."
Definitely.

Actually I would simply check for tridec aspects in the posted categories, and make a special note if they appear just like we do for conjunction/opposition, as these representing the 1st and 13th harmonic might have precedence.

"....It would be so cool if TwinFlames were found to have something significant there!"
Yes, it would make sense.

Another "tf-Sabian" that IQ mentioned is 23-24 Virgo: Mary and her little lamb, as a reference to jesus.
#

On 13-14 Aries this might relate to Kundalini Rising and be also important in relationships:
"A Serpent Coiling Near A Man And A Woman"

"But we have a strong karmic bond which is why we have been married 28 years. I am aware of what some of it is through past life regression."
Wow! 28 years is a long time! How does that work?

posted May 07, 2012 01:33 AM            

KEYNOTE: Identification in bipolar relationship with the impersonal rhythm of natural energy.

The symbol for Phase 4 pictures a man and a woman in love walking together. At this new and more mentally stimulated level of experience and consciousness, a third factor appears: the serpent, whose coiling represents the spiral-like process of evolution - not merely "sex" according to the maker of cathartic symbols, Sigmund Freud. We can understand this "triangular" image — man, woman and the serpent — if we relate it to the preceding one in the series, the unexploded bomb of the anarchist or activist. The urge to blow up some structure which somehow has become in the activist's mind a symbol of the Establishment — the ruling elite — is usually the protest of an alienated and often immature mind that refuses relationship, because in the relationship he would occupy a subservient position. In this symbol, the serpent represents the acceptance of relationship by the two polarized human beings.

There must be a polarization before there can be fulfillment. The tragedy of so many contemporary lives is that, having become sharply individualized, the men and women cannot find their truly matching polar-opposite. Because they are not fulfilled at the root level of human emotions and vitalistic forces, they pass their lives seeking the ideal complement, often glamorized as the "soul mate." This search can find its expression at several levels. At the mystical level we have the examples of the "spiritual marriage" of Saint Francis of Assisi and Santa Clara, or recently of Sri Aurobindo and Mother Mira.

The Adam and Eve story (in Hebrew, Ish and Isha - much more significant names!) refers to this principle of polarization, although the story has been turned upside down by priestly intellects to serve their purposes. Adam and Eve accepted the Presence, not of the Tempter, but of the Individualizer, who sought to have them born out of the womb of unconscious passivity to Nature's God. But the result of the experience frightened them. They "hid"; they failed in the great test of individualization, and in this sense the archetype of that failure is deeply imbedded in man's generic unconscious. It is repeated time after time.

Modern "individuals" are confronted with another test, but they do not understand its meaning. It is the test of polarized conscious participation in the evolutionary process - a polarization that could dissolve alienation, isolation and egocentricity. In a sense at least, this was the old Tantric concept in India; but today many young people accept the concept only superficially and miss its real essence. They cannot understand the meaning of entering into the serpent, i.e. of developing eonic consciousness and that transpersonal living which once was characterized by the words: Not I live, but Christ lives me - Christ, whose symbolic number in Gnosticism is 888.

At this fourth stage of the third five-fold sequence, we are confronted with an image suggesting the transpersonal way to the "cosmification" of desire and the conscious acceptance of polarization as the solution of the problems generated by individualization. But this need not mean what is currently meant by "sex" and the glorification of the orgasm. It implies rather the RITUALIZATION OF RELATIONSHIP."
http://mindfire.ca/The%20Sabian%20Symbols/An%20Astrological%20Mandala%20-%20Aries%201-15.htm

posted May 07, 2012 02:39 AM            

Thanks for posting the article on Aries 14. For this the exact position should be between Aries 13 and 14 degrees.

The Virgo position is between 23 and 24.

posted May 07, 2012 03:51 AM            

Here are some quotes on this:

"Venus produces a beautiful, almost perfect, five-pointed star pattern in the heavens every eight years. When one star is complete, another one is formed, and another one. The artistry of Venus weaving her beautiful embroidery upon the celestial tapestry of our night sky is more than simply a lovely image to behold. "
http://venusstarrising.com/

"But the Venus Star Point incorporates the kiss of Venus to the Sun, the time when Venus was passing through the heart of the Sun. The Venus Star Point, then, combines the love of Venus with the light and energy of the Sun, acting as a potential laser beam of light and love that fills the individual."
http://venusstarrising.com/retail-outlets/

My own Venus Star Point is on 13 Scorpio as an Evening star.

posted May 07, 2012 05:45 PM            

The first incident happened when I was doing my Fellowship at a very prestigious (world famous) research institution. The reason I mention this is because the atmosphere in this place is extremely competitive and cutthroat. Basically, if you don’t produce you’re out.

I was seated at my desk in front of a computer looking at the screen. Suddenly it seemed as though the desk, computer, my cubicle, all the objects around me began to get “pulled away” from me so it felt like I was at a distance from these solid structures. Then I recall having the feeling that I was no longer at my desk but hovering somewhere above, near the ceiling. This was followed by the disappearance or pulling away of all the walls (including the ceiling). I felt like I was able to look at/see into the entire floor of the building. Then I had the sensation of being able to “see” practically the whole building-as though the whole building was “exposed” with no barriers from solid objects.

While all this was happening, I began to feel or “pick up” on emotions-first from my room, then the floor, and then the whole building (it seemed). There seemed to be only ONE principal emotion, though, that of PAIN. And the “source” of the pain appeared to lie within the interactions between the people there; like the people were acting with one another in ways that caused hurt and pain. But there was so much of it that I felt overwhelmed. The sensation I had was akin to being exposed to something very acute and sharp so as to cause a soul-deep wincing within me.

And then suddenly, just like that it was all over. I was back at my desk and the walls fell back in place. I remember thinking, “Phew! That was WEIRD.” Because I knew I’d not budged from my desk. Yet the experience and what I “felt” during it was also very real. I also remember wondering briefly how long I was “gone” or “absent” from “reality.” But I had no concept of the time it took to experience this. It could have been a few seconds or several minutes. A part of me felt frustrated with not knowing how much time had elapsed as though if I knew that, I would somehow be able to understand what really happened.

A week or so after this incident, I mentioned it to two friends-a much older married couple that was pretty spiritual. They felt I’d had a “revelation.” For about six months after this incident I noticed I would cry very easily at the slightest hint of unkindness between people, either in real life or even on TV! It became so that I had to become very careful about what I watched, who I interacted with, and basically what I exposed my mind to as I would become so easily overwhelmed.

About one and a half years later, while I was still processing this incident, I had another experience. This one was completely the opposite of the first, as it had to do with love rather than pain.

It was evening time and I had been reading a book outside in the back of the house. As darkness increased, I decided to come in and get ready for work the next day. I went upstairs to the bedroom, put the book by the bedside, and briefly sat on the edge of the bed to think about things I would need for the following day. And suddenly I felt as though I was struck by something like a charge of electric current, which went through my entire body. I felt almost burned by it. I remember my heart started racing and then pounding as if I’d just completed a 100 m dash. I couldn’t understand what had happened, just felt like I couldn’t breathe. So I ran downstairs and out to the backyard where I stood for several minutes just taking in deep gulps of fresh air.

When I came back inside I felt a strong urge to ask someone about this, about what had happened to me. There was a pastor I wanted to speak with, but since it was late in the evening he was unavailable.

The next morning even before I was fully awake, I knew there was something different about me. I felt different, lighter, with a kind of peace within me that I hadn’t ever experienced before. It wasn’t happiness or elation, just a huge, great calm inside me. Most noticeable was the absence of ANY stress, worry, anxiety, sadness, or pain. Just a light feeling of walking on air. I remember thinking, “This is what Heaven must feel like.” (I call this experience “bliss” and began to recognize it as such in later incidents when I was “sent into” the same level of peace. I say, “sent into” because I’m not consciously doing anything myself to bring this about). I also knew (without having spoken to anyone about it) that I had been touched by an energy field of pure love. It was the purity of it that initially felt like being burned, while the energy field had felt like an electric current going though me.

The above experience of “bliss” lasted for about 4 days. During this time several strangely good things happened. The first morning my car wouldn’t start so I walked (less than a mile) to work. Normally my car not starting in the morning would freak me out, but that day it didn’t bother me at all. I handled the whole day in a very high stress environment feeling nothing but peace. As I walked back that evening I had a strong feeling my car would start if I tried before going into the house. And sure enough, it did. There was a water pipe under one of the bathroom sinks that had a slow drip and I was meaning to have that looked at. During my period of bliss, the pipe stopped leaking. I’d had a tiff with my sister a couple of weeks prior, and she’d said some hurtful things to me in anger. During the “bliss,” I not only knew she would apologize, but knew the exact words she would use in her apology. She sent me a card with the exact same words! Everything in life seemed to be extraordinarily smooth and peaceful. And yes throughout it I was aware of “being in heaven.”

On the 4th morning, even before I was fully awake, I knew I had lost my “bliss”. My pre-bliss life had returned except that it felt very heavy this time around.

Through the above 2 and some of my other subsequent experiences I understood first hand (not just from books or scriptures, or intellect) that the cause of almost all human suffering is human selfishness and ego and the only antidote to pain is pure love. That pure love can heal not just the soul but also the human body, as well as the bodies of inanimate objects like a car or a leaky pipe.