posted June 28, 2012 09:35 PM            

Just thought I'd let you know that your 8:36 pm, June 28 post on the thread below disappeared--
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum28/HTML/001131.html

posted June 28, 2012 10:26 PM            

I have informed Randall about your deleted post in the above mentioned thread, and he has asked me to ask you to please re-post.

Randall is very fair, and once he's been informed of a situation, you can be sure he'll keep an eye on it. This is why I trust him.

So feel free to re-post. BTW, I just wanted to re-iterate that your post was very well written, kindly worded with the inclusion of the rainbow emoticon, and well wishes to the OP. I thought it was a very gracious way to state your pro gay stand.

posted June 29, 2012 05:55 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jovian:
I don't mean to sound saccharin here--I really sincerely appreciate the opportunity to connect and share here. ...Maybe I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop--some fear that everyone will realize I'm really an @ssh0le! Sorry for the crudity.

---

posted June 29, 2012 05:45 PM            

I was horrified and disappointed in myself; it crushed me that I needed to uproot my children from their nest of security, comfort, and predictability, but needing to be strong for them gave me much more focus through a great part of it. Then my children accepted bribes from the evil ones. I recall my mother being in public and saying stuff like 'see that person's face over there? Ooooo, I could just slap them.' Well, she didn't like mine very much either. And since I idealized her, she was 'my whole world' it wound up that life, 'the World', treated me the same way.

It's always been so easy for me to defend others... but afterwards I'm left on to experience horrors on my own with no angel support from anybody. (...That's why Linda's intervention was a golden new experience to me. Maybe my life is changing for the better?)

I was under the religious illusion that we're to love one another fairly and uphold each other in life. It's the christian thing to do right? Unfortunately this has not been my experience. Life and circumstance crushed me, ground its dirty heel in my face like I was an ugly cigarette being crushed out.

Now, how could I live in that kind of state and it be fair to my children? They didn't deserve that their mom was being bullied by those closest to her. I was not given help. And that was an inhumanity....

We hadn't quite recovered from the first devastation--- the next came blindly and unexpected, and it wiped us out thoroughly and completely... There was nothing I could do about what was happening to us back then, and I became terrified. There was NO support for my girls and me as a little nuclear family! The dysfunction and hatred of "us" was in abundance. Outside-OTHERS "knew," but NOT ONE felt moved to intervene on our life's behalf. They sweated at the tooth. Wanted to break us apart. We were utterly shattered, blown to the wind. I still grieve...... My children never understood. My mouth was shut-up. The greatest betrayal of all. And Fate triggered it all...crushing, wounding. I wish I'd known about astrology back then.

My Aries child w Aries asc had many planets in her 12th House Pisces. The life displacements were so much more rough and unkind for this child. She'd sense everything. She was DEEP. Even deeply sentimental about things, to which she ascribed meanings and memories, where even an empty coke-can could have precious meanings to her. She was my little mystic genius.

My Taurus w Aries Asc with powerful 10th Cappy Moon and 9th Cappy Mars stradling either side of her Capricorn MC with precise arcs. She was a 'practical' child. She fared easier, it seems. She naturally attracted interested adults to herself who became powerful mentors and influences in her life. Many stepped forward to invest into her business talent and potential after those terrible times. My hopes were intense for her -- she had an ability to climb to a certain station in life. Had the potential to be and do great things for humanity. She was my little CEO genius.

I was dealing with an abusive (2nd) spouse (not their father) whose open brazen, unabashed bullying of me transitioned me from the state of courageous fighting woman to a fear-frozen ineffectual despicable heap. My little Aries wasn't used to seeing her mom like this. I didn't know what to do. During one of his open tirades at me, she screamed to me: "MOM!!!! DOOOO SOMETHING! The "other" me that she had known would have put this character in his place forthrightly!! But something had happened to me. I was terrified and trying not to show it; I couldn't do a thing for my own self. That moment and day was one of the most woefull experiences in my life! I'd LOST respect in the deep eyes of my treasured eldest daughter-- no longer was I to be her brave model hero in her heart.

He eventually "won" my children over "to his side." Bribery, money, clothes, comfort, electronics, luxuries--- everything that little label-conscious preteens can be lured by.

In later years the Taurus spurned me as a wimp. I was a broken piece. On my birthday that fateful year, instead of a phone call, she emailed me a 'dear-john' letter---out of the blue!! soooo cold! sooo howling painful. She wrote that our relationship now has 'conditions' on it: I would have to "earn" her love (like a lab animal she's training). If I did not riseup to her standards and approval, she would not "allow" me to associate with her. (Really!?) She told people she was orphaned. (Messed up her social fantasy to scrape myself up and show up in her new life.)

Pain!! O my little Taurus cappy moonchild! OMG, How could she hurt me sooo bad??... But then now, how could I blame her? I was an animal, stiff, frightened and frozen. I saw no more hope remained for me in her eyes anymore. She had quickly tallied her figures and told me I am a liability to her life. Human Profit centers and Cost centers. She chose : I had no benefit to her. So now that she was an educated, elite, connected, all righteous, powerful, and disrespectful grownup at age 21, the email meant goodbye forever. Bright politically saavy uber-conservative worldly girl. She had and knew ALL the answers to life and the 'value' of people. Sorrowfully, she did.... Unrighteously, she did.

The Aries/Pisces Moon was a sensitive poet, a writer, a lover of all life, and a dreamer with an exquisite tender love of nature and pets! She had a hermit-crab cemetery at the base of a huge tree in the woods where we lived. The Taurus/Cappy Moon was a natural-born leader, problem-solver, CEO, comedic entertainer, and a powerful community organizer. She liked baking cookies.

How I wish I had known more astrology back then. OMG! I could have done SUCH a better job as a mom, especially since I (thought) I was noble-- successfully and VALIANTLY "shielding" them from the terrors and nightmare of my personal world experience.

posted June 29, 2012 06:16 PM            

music for a while shall all my cares beguile [song of Henry Purcell]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqGHkGkofnI
Lyrics:
Music for a while.
Shall all your cares beguile:
Wondering how your pains were eased.
And disdaining to be pleased,
Till Alecto free the dead.
From their eternal bands,
Till the snakes drop from her head,
And the whip from out her hands.

posted June 29, 2012 11:05 PM            

Being a parent is so damn wonderful, and so damn hard. My heart goes out to you over what happened with your children... it must have been so devastating to receive such a letter from someone you love so much, and tried so hard to protect and nourish. Sooner or later I think my son will be very angry at me for the choices I've made (he already is, I think, but doesn't feel able to say it yet). I'm trying to prepare myself, but I don't think it's the kind of thing you CAN prepare for.

Reading about your experience, the phrase "damned if you do, damned if you don't", is more indelibly imprinted in my mind than ever. My little man has Asc conjunct Sun conjuct Jupiter in Libra, and Saturn has been picking them off one by one over the last two years, but it'll make its final pass this September, and as of this moment he has a string of Jupiter transits tiding him over until late next year. Perhaps it WILL be an adventure, but on which shore we'll wash up I really cannot say. I'm so acutely conscious of my mistakes at the moment; It's like trying to move across a chess board with the ghosts of Christmas past, present and future flanking you on every side - all is cast in shadow.

posted June 29, 2012 11:26 PM            

Crazy Trivia About Randall: I play the violin.

posted June 29, 2012 11:41 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:

Crazy Trivia About Randall: I play the violin.

---

posted June 30, 2012 03:43 AM            

Even though I am just a beginner at astrology, at least I can say that I'm not a novice anymore. I recognize certain things in charts, but am NOT a "reader" (like others are here). I don't have intentions of doing readings...I can't.

But what I have discovered for myself about my life, and about astrology, I am willing to pass along, or ask about. My main heart is to do research, and maybe some day will be able to contribute to the knowledge in certain fields, based on life experience.

For me, watching astrology unfold is such fantastic wonder! so wonderful, and beautiful, and forthtelling. It's an intimate communion with All That Is.

Through astrology I'm learning things about living Life that had never been explained to me before. As I work very hard to keep reading I gather the ideas behind this simple "symbolic" alphabet language. For me it's giving me better knowledge of the World, and I keep tripping over wonders, and discover places in the Heavens that were hidden in plain sight! They were there all along and I hadn't seen it.

Mysteries are all spelled out and waiting for those who are curious. Studying is like learning word letters. Thus C A T becomes 'cat'; which then connects me to a compendium of knowledge about (to me) a most beautiful critter. Now I feel like Helen Keller!! W-A-T-E-R!! Oh, give me MORE of that!! I'm beginning to understand what "wet" means!

(...in the mountain Thou are 'high'; in the river Thou art 'restless'; in Thy oceans Thou are 'grave' / depth. Yogananda)

I think its been important that I have read such an array of philosophies in life. And with astrology, I don't feel and think that any "one" astrologer has the answer in totality. I find myself able to sense the place where they begin to lift off their truth zone; they begin to depart from the 'sweet' spot, the place where truth runs as common thread in that collective knowledge.

I know and believe one has to be exposed to a broad foundation and spectrum of philosophies, because relying only on one source is unwise.

I cringe as I read the harsher and more condemning interpretations. They "label" people; lend weights to awful stigmas, promote stereotypes, offer a flat world. I see their effects; the fluffy egotists can even come down to downright lying.

To me, sometimes just the "objective truth" can be harsh enough to hear, all by itself. Some throw down an added editorial dimension that bleeds through their communication and condemns and spites their client or bookreader.

Listeners and readers with raw hurt psyches will 'hear' through the filter of terrible self criticism. When that is combined with editorial condemnation of the "person" along with the information, then that does not make blessing.

Some of us were harmed growing up. And I'm afraid that it's even MORE so for THIS generation... God help them! These may gravitate towards astrology to get themselves help. I have found astrology as an outlet-- helps me stand.

Now I'm learning to use it as a working tool... and I want that opportunity to be available to others who may be attracted for the same reasons. Some may have had to withstand wave upon wave upon wave of cruel attacks in their life, at a time of life when they were vulnerable and should have been taught what you do to survive situations in this world. If 'criticisms' come that are off-based, and are not coming from a place of understanding from a good and kind nurturing essence, then that information can feel like it's coming out of the mouths of vengeful inner hates from poor and abusive role models from their past. SURELY, a new approach needs to be cultivated in view of the world as it is today. Cruelty seems to be the contest. How neurotic. It's the sign of the generation. Other generations under subject of unthinkable unkindness and cruelties--which get rewarded from persons of THEIR own kinds. This, to them, is mod success.

Yes, some victims were trained to hear condemnation, and the words can feel like ammunition! It can feel like 'character assassination'. Some narcissists derive pleasure by watching their captive turn outside in, and curled in front of them. Once in a smerched heap at their feet, you can hear them-- a sardonic laugh. What a crushing brutal experience.

Bessie Bobtail - Samuel Barber http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=1Y70PKOJhns&NR=1

...the ear longs to hear what the heart already knows.
_________________________________

Despina, I found an interesting article on "Life Cycles" published in The Mountain Astrologer #162 V.25(3),(2012,AprilMay).

On pages 61-65 there's an article by Mavis Klein. On page 62 she describes development at Ages 5 to 6 years (Jupiter opposite Jupiter, and Saturn sextile Saturn), then Age 7 (Saturn square Saturn). As you describe your 6 year old son, and as I read Mavis Klein's description of Age 7, what you personally may be about to face COULD be part of his soul's development.

If you have Robert Hand's book on Planets in Transit (1976) please READ about Saturn transits at end of 11th going into the 12th House (p.326). Is that where Saturn travels in your chart? (I dunno... I'm learning.)

Alan Oken's (2009) Houses in the Horoscope describes Capricorn IC, with Moon in IC (pp.76-78).

Between Klein and Oken, to me what you've describe in your Son's behavior (and the father's) seem to "fit" for his age and stage of development.

Went to Mavis Klein website and found the following under her section called, "The Courage of Prophets."

Mavis Klein says, "There are moments in all our lives when our deep interest in some matter makes us minor prophets, epitomized most commonly perhaps when, in our expertise as parents, we see the mistakenness of some of the life decisions of our children while poignantly also knowing they must play out the consequences of their choices and learn their own lessons."
http://www.familytherapylondon.co.uk/astrologer.htm

posted June 30, 2012 04:04 AM            

The Monk and His Cat Samuel Barber (featuring Stitch The Cat) --
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDgsvqBj8ug&feature=related

posted June 30, 2012 05:03 PM            

American Samuel Barber's art song set to music from poetry by James Agee. Performed by lyric soprano Christine Powers with Michael Clement on piano in January, 2011 at Emmanuel baptist Church, Albany, NY.

Sure on this shining night
Of star-made shadows round
Kindness must watch for me
This side the ground

The late year lies down the north,
All is healed, all is health
High summer holds the earth,
Hearts all whole

posted June 30, 2012 11:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mirage29:

Hey Jovian! Do have a cat up there in your new hermitage? :laugh:

---

How did you know that 'hermitage' just about describes this place? It's about 12 x 20 feet! Quite the adventure in simplifying my life.... And you know--there is some transit for me right now that speaks to exactly that--seeing how much I can do without. (I'll have to look it up--can't recall what it is.) ...Why YES--there is a stray kitty I've been feeding. The place I am staying at is on the property of a friend, who had been feeding the cat dry food...along with bologna...so I feel compelled to keep the cat living "in the manner to which it has become accustomed" of course. A little worried as he/she wasn't waiting outside for bologna the last few days. Did see a bear cub, digging through a dumpster on property yesterday. ( I know I said they burn garbage, but not all of it.) Bears don't eat cats, right? lol Could be some other preying animals here though, for sure.

Anyway, just noticed that cat comment from you, Mirage.

Would like to comment later on the earlier discussion here about life transitions, as I am in one as well (Did I mention my van engine siezed a month ago, and I have no job? lol. I am pleased that I am quite at peace, however.... It feels quite significant to realize this, that I've evolved from how I'd feel about being in such a situation, a few years earlier.)

Also, the mentions of concern about how a mother's choices affect children.... Both you and Despina's thoughtfulness about it--even if in retrospect, Mirage--is a lot more than many people reflect on their actions as parents. My parents divorced when I was about four. My mother, brother and I moved about ten times by the time I was ten years old. Yes, I agree it affects different children differently. (Astrologically, my Cancer moon had me blaming Mom mostly, while sympathizing more with my Dad; while brother with Cap moon felt Dad should have done more.)...There are photos of my brother and I, when I was about three and he two, in which there are scabs on his face...which I later realized are from me--a "good little girl," frustrated with rage with her needs not being met, as her parents were distracted with their own fighting and isolated misery; with us kids often in the care of others. I took years to process my childhood. But I guess I realized early in adulthood that we "choose" our life circumstances on some level, whatever they be.

Take good care. ...I'm sorry I'm just too weary from the busy weekend work I'm doing to more thoughtfully read and respond right now. I am moved by the soulful and thoughtful interaction here though. ...And thank you for the kind comment, Despina. ... I'm so glad you felt you could unburden yourself here. You are not alone.

posted July 01, 2012 06:49 PM            

Cunningham raises some cogent arguments in her article about the lack of supervision/guidelines when it comes to consulting clients. I got the interpretations of my son's aspects online and from books - I went to an astrologer in a panic shortly after reading them who thankfully did his best to assuage my fears... He couldn't really undo my apprehension at the moon chiron conjunction, 'though, he just kept reiterating that moon in the 4th house is good (which doesn't change the fact that chiron in the fourth, conjunct the moon, is not!).

Ah well. Like Jovian, I too have always believed, for one reason or another, that we choose to be born into certain situations in order to learn things necessary for our soul's development. As such, it is my son's story, and all I can do is try to be supportive and do everything in my power to not make it any harder, if that makes sense. Thank you for the reminder Jovian and Mirage <3 I'm trying to get a hold of the Klein article to help understand where he's at right now, and have ordered the Olsen. Many thanks for these too!

Not a huge fan of Robert Hand based on some of the things he's written on astro.com, but I might pick it up at a later point. Saturn has been going over my ascendant, actually (my little boy and I share the same Asc and Moon signs, although the latter aren't conjunct). I've had plenty of rough Saturn transits, as I'm sure we all have(!), but have never experienced one quite so physically. I'm just exhausted all of the time, am losing more and more weight no matter what I eat, and am finding new grey hairs and wrinkles every day (at 26!). I feel so old, and not in a wise way, lol :-)

But 'this too shall pass', I know (thanks to astrology, I'm counting down the days to Saturn's final pass). Thanks again for all of the support! And apologies for not replying sooner... Even the things I really want to do take so much effort these days.

posted July 02, 2012 12:23 AM            

Yes, my cat LOVED music!!
When I'd play piano she'd climb on top and fold her little front paws under her and purr... She was also a little night-time virtuoso! I would hear her -- my kitten on the keys.

You must have been quite skilled to have played that level of music. Cool! I know for me that music was the way I survived my "life"-- especially in my childhood and teenaged years!

What happened to make you give it up?

What did "Jake" like to hear! ??

posted July 02, 2012 12:51 AM            

Stephen Arroyo (1978,1992)
Astrology Karma & Transformation : inner dimensions of the birth chart.
CRCS Publications. (2nd ed.)