posted October 18, 2012 09:07 PM            

Neptune in 12th, widely conj Sun by 10 deg. Only other aspect is sextile to Pluto.

(Yes, Mirage, perhaps in my case the sun/neptune in 12th also has to do with the absent/spacey father thing. My Dad is a Pisces...absent in childhood. )

(Lots of mutable signs, in mutable houses, fwiw. No Fixed planets. Closest is cardinal Moon..in fixed house.)

posted October 18, 2012 10:17 PM            

Who are your teachers, Gabby?

posted October 18, 2012 10:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mirage29:
ooookay! guess you guys are gone....

I'd stopped by here tonight to pass an url to you all, on sagittalness ....

[b]The Scoop on Sagittarius, by Celeste Teal (c 1998) article in STAR SIGNS Astrology Zine
http://www.astrologyzine.com/sagittarius-1.shtml

goodnight...[/B]

---

posted October 18, 2012 10:45 PM            

love has GOT to be an unfair f'in freaking P A I N F U L deal!!! You are sooo BRAVE.

I gave up on dating. Ran away from an abusive relat back in 1997, stalked me until 2002.

I've met just a few ppl (on a date) since then, and for ME? love hurts so bad that I give up! frog-gettit!! prince charming!!

safer NOT to have loved.... right now? it sucks, and i'm not gonna get hurt anymore.

so i admire those who DO date, and do 'the pain.' and i'll be there for them...

i LOVE to compete playfully, and intellectually--- i'm a tiger! fiesty, vicious delicious FUN!!

but i won't fight if someone challenges me for love. got extreme-reality on that when I was preteen...

learned the old butterfly saying: if it's real they'll come back... if they're gone? then maybe i've saved myself from an even deeper and more horrible hurt that i couldn't have ever imagined. i got saved from hurt.

i'm not gonna fight for someone to love me, if they don't.... and if they don't want to fight as hard as i would, then it's not 'equal' and i just regroup.

for my 'older' age, maybe it's just better

AND I want to add that THIS is NOT the sort of "wisdom" to teach younger people AT ALL --- but it's what has happened...to ME.

If younger people learn HOW, then they'll do MUCH MUCH better than I ever have.

you still here?

remember the 'old' computer days... when you'd have to CALL the person, and use a modem to couple over the telephone... yep, then you KNOW they are there...

posted October 18, 2012 10:48 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mirage29:
[b]ooookay! guess you guys are gone....

I'd stopped by here tonight to pass an url to you all, on sagittalness ....

[b]The Scoop on Sagittarius, by Celeste Teal (c 1998) article in STAR SIGNS Astrology Zine
http://www.astrologyzine.com/sagittarius-1.shtml

goodnight...[/B]

---

quote:

---

Im here...just on phone....im not saying its all neptune!! Yes you must have the right environment to create this but it can happen....ill explain more tommorow and how i came to feel this way!!! im reading just responding is hard on my phone!! Sorry!! As always i think you guys are amazing!!

---

Oh!! Okay, thanks for explaining.... see you tomorrow.....

posted October 19, 2012 02:17 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jovian:
...I'm here... Have to think about what Gabby just replied. My Mars (in 3rd) exactly square Jupiter/Asc I think also contributes to the speaking harshly without thinking first.

Neptune in 12th, widely conj Sun by 10 deg. Only other aspect is sextile to Pluto.

(Yes, Mirage, perhaps in my case the sun/neptune in 12th also has to do with the absent/spacey father thing. My Dad is a Pisces...absent in childhood. )

(Lots of mutable signs, in mutable houses, fwiw. No Fixed planets. Closest is cardinal Moon..in fixed house.)

I don't mind the "tough love." I am indeed tired of being like this. Thanks for the responses! I didn't expect it.

---

Please give me the chance to read your responses....and i will explain why i feel like i do!! This isnt some passing thought or momentary thing.....iv spent much, much time trying to help my heart escape neptune!!! Ask anything you want to know....i will explain!!!! I believe in love respect and appreciation, to others and yourself.........but you cant find any of those things if you dont live in reality!!

posted October 19, 2012 01:21 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jovian:
...I'm here... Have to think about what Gabby just replied. My Mars (in 3rd) exactly square Jupiter/Asc I think also contributes to the speaking harshly without thinking first.

Neptune in 12th, widely conj Sun by 10 deg. Only other aspect is sextile to Pluto.

(Yes, Mirage, perhaps in my case the sun/neptune in 12th also has to do with the absent/spacey father thing. My Dad is a Pisces...absent in childhood. )

(Lots of mutable signs, in mutable houses, fwiw. No Fixed planets. Closest is cardinal Moon..in fixed house.)

I don't mind the "tough love." I am indeed tired of being like this. Thanks for the responses! I didn't expect it.

---

If Neptune's energy is your wide eyed dreams, optimistic, excited, happy....then a planet sq to neptune would have an energy of irritability, indifference, annoyance, "life is hard, get used to it" attitude! It would be the feeling you'd have after you gave up on your dreams, reality set in that it just wasnt happening! When you just found out you didnt get your dream job, you cannot find any joy to express as your friend tells you about finding out they got there dream job. Doesnt mean you dont care and you arent happy for them...but at that moment you cant express it...you just want them to stop talking about it and might even be a little rude...because it reminds you of what you don't have!
This is the energy of a sq. to neptune! My moon's only aspect is a sq. to neptune...its actually too far to be a square but only by .21
I've struggle my whole life to allow myself to feel without feeling guilty for it, to honor my feelings instead of picking on myself for them...
I used to dream to be like Spock(star trek, not sure if i spelled his name correctly) and have no feelings....
I denied all my feelings, rejected them, and at times i'd even feel i was so stupid for having emotional needs. I had no kindness, understanding or respect for feelings...it was much like my feelings reminded me of something that made me feel bad...but what? I don't know, the energy was just there!
I'd tell people dont candy coat anything with me, i can take it...softness is childish!
People who were dramatic with their emotions annoyed me, i wanted away from them.
Thats what neptune does, it gives a soft place to land, without it(sq to personal planet) equates to feeling like you can never catch a break, like you always get the short end of the stick and you end up with a chip on your shoulder in the areas affected by that planet.
But i still had emotions, i still felt very deeply...neptune cant change the planet, it only picks on it. You feel stupid or guilty for acting, doing or being ways that are normal.
In synastry a sq. neptune is just an irratation energy, a place where you dont have a lot of understanding...kind of like not wanting to hear about your friends new job...you just arent interested or validating in the area that neptune squares!

posted October 19, 2012 01:40 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jovian:
...I'm here... Have to think about what Gabby just replied. My Mars (in 3rd) exactly square Jupiter/Asc I think also contributes to the speaking harshly without thinking first.

Neptune in 12th, widely conj Sun by 10 deg. Only other aspect is sextile to Pluto.

(Yes, Mirage, perhaps in my case the sun/neptune in 12th also has to do with the absent/spacey father thing. My Dad is a Pisces...absent in childhood. )

(Lots of mutable signs, in mutable houses, fwiw. No Fixed planets. Closest is cardinal Moon..in fixed house.)

I don't mind the "tough love." I am indeed tired of being like this. Thanks for the responses! I didn't expect it.

---

Do you think the mars sq. adds the negative side of mars to your asc/jup at times?
I have a square saturn to uranus...saturn controlled uranus and the only time uranus showed itself it was in a self destructive way to rebel from saturn...i spent so many years with these planets wasting their energy in battle and i accomplished very little because of it!
I'm purging right now...im cleaning out all my closets, drawers, anything i dont use is going bye bye...finally saturn is kicking into a gear that is actually productive!!
It changed once i realize its my responsibility to allow myself to be me, its my responsibility to accept im not perfect but that doesnt mean im bad, it just means im an imperfect human, its my responsibility to laugh at my mistakes and then try harder next time, its my responsibility to make an imprint on my surroundings.
Once saturn started accepting these responsibilities, uranus energy became able to make changes that were thought out and positive instead of destructive to me.

posted October 19, 2012 01:59 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jovian:
Wow, Mirage. That Sag article was right on... to my dismay, in several parts. Oh my--even that "sponge" part helps me realize part of why I'm so disappointed in how I was in this relationship. ...More to work on.

---

posted October 19, 2012 02:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mirage29:
awww my Jovian, you really blame yourself... I just wanna put my arm around my buddy right now, and just go out and have a beer.

love has GOT to be an unfair f'in freaking P A I N F U L deal!!! You are sooo BRAVE.

I gave up on dating. Ran away from an abusive relat back in 1997, stalked me until 2002.

I've met just a few ppl (on a date) since then, and for ME? love hurts so bad that I give up! frog-gettit!! prince charming!!

safer NOT to have loved.... right now? it sucks, and i'm not gonna get hurt anymore.

so i admire those who DO date, and do 'the pain.' and i'll be there for them...

i LOVE to compete playfully, and intellectually--- i'm a tiger! fiesty, vicious delicious FUN!!

but i won't fight if someone challenges me for love. got extreme-reality on that when I was preteen...

learned the old butterfly saying: if it's real they'll come back... if they're gone? then maybe i've saved myself from an even deeper and more horrible hurt that i couldn't have ever imagined. i got saved from hurt.

i'm not gonna fight for someone to love me, if they don't.... and if they don't want to fight as hard as i would, then it's not 'equal' and i just regroup.

for my 'older' age, maybe it's just better

AND I want to add that THIS is NOT the sort of "wisdom" to teach younger people AT ALL --- but it's what has happened...to ME.

If younger people learn HOW, then they'll do MUCH MUCH better than I ever have.

you still here?

remember the 'old' computer days... when you'd have to CALL the person, and use a modem to couple over the telephone... yep, then you KNOW they are there...

[saturnOPPvenus!]

---

posted October 19, 2012 02:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
If Neptune's energy is your wide eyed dreams, optimistic, excited, happy....then a planet sq to neptune would have an energy of irritability, indifference, annoyance, "life is hard, get used to it" attitude! It would be the feeling you'd have after you gave up on your dreams, reality set in that it just wasnt happening! When you just found out you didnt get your dream job, you cannot find any joy to express as your friend tells you about finding out they got there dream job. Doesnt mean you dont care and you arent happy for them...but at that moment you cant express it...you just want them to stop talking about it and might even be a little rude...because it reminds you of what you don't have!
This is the energy of a sq. to neptune! My moon's only aspect is a sq. to neptune...its actually too far to be a square but only by .21
I've struggle my whole life to allow myself to feel without feeling guilty for it, to honor my feelings instead of picking on myself for them...
I used to dream to be like Spock(star trek, not sure if i spelled his name correctly) and have no feelings....
I denied all my feelings, rejected them, and at times i'd even feel i was so stupid for having emotional needs. I had no kindness, understanding or respect for feelings...it was much like my feelings reminded me of something that made me feel bad...but what? I don't know, the energy was just there!
I'd tell people dont candy coat anything with me, i can take it...softness is childish!
People who were dramatic with their emotions annoyed me, i wanted away from them.
Thats what neptune does, it gives a soft place to land, without it(sq to personal planet) equates to feeling like you can never catch a break, like you always get the short end of the stick and you end up with a chip on your shoulder in the areas affected by that planet.
But i still had emotions, i still felt very deeply...neptune cant change the planet, it only picks on it. You feel stupid or guilty for acting, doing or being ways that are normal.
In synastry a sq. neptune is just an irratation energy, a place where you dont have a lot of understanding...kind of like not wanting to hear about your friends new job...you just arent interested or validating in the area that neptune squares!

Jovian do you feel like your Sun sign is washed out by conjunct neptune in neptune house?
Ive sun conjunct neptune is a treasured aspect...a karmic honor of some sort! I will see if i can find that site again! Its been along time since i was reading about it, ill check tho!

---

You may find these two books very interesting:
Betty Lundsted (1980) Astrological Insights into Personality. Ibis Press c)2004
and
Stephen Arroyo (1978,1992). Astrology Karma & Transformation: The Inner Dimensions of the Birth Chart, (2nd.rev&expanded). CRCS Publ usa.

(Of course, the WHOLE chart has to be considered....)

I think the books are saying that there is a tendency of Moon-Neptune to "project" their ideals about others onto others. This is learned from 'mom' around development @ age 3yrs)... May have 'learned' how to unconsciously respond to others, in the same manner as your mother?

posted October 19, 2012 02:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
Wow!! We think to much alike!! After i left my husband and the religion, i was still brainwashed even tho no longer there...carried it with me! The 2nd person i'd ever slept with i felt obligated to marry@25. He was so abusive...his neptune squared his mercury/saturn and AC...he could rip you apart emotionally and felt nothing, well, actually he felt justified and obligated to be the way he was....he said he was trying to help me be a better person. We divorced!
Followed by another relationship with a controlling, insensitive man. I left him and stupid, stupid, stupid me...i let my 2nd ex smooth talk me back into trying to reconcile! I got pregnant!
By the time my son was born, i wanted him out of my life so desperately, i contemplating not telling him when i went into labor so i wouldnt have to put his name on the birth certificate. I decided i couldnt do it, so he was there.
It took me another 2 years, restraining orders, which he broke, served a night in jail got out did it again 17 times, before it finally became serious and he was looking at serving time for it. We made a bargain with the district attorney, he leaves the state never comes back and ill drop the charges...wont show up at the court and they will dismiss it...but if i ever file another order against him all charges will be brought active again...he agreed and signed it! He left for good!
I realized i didnt have the ability to pick a decent guy and stopped trying! My son is about to turn 8 in Nov and hes never seen me with a guy except one and it was only for a few months!
Ive never let guys come to my home and all relationships were long distance except the one.
I've just been sitting back and working on me, trying to become the person i want to be so ill attract someone whos good for me, the healthy version, 2013 version of me, lol!
I'm just starting to believe i could stand up for myself and pick a decent guy! MAYBE!

---

posted October 19, 2012 02:41 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mirage29:
Gabby, Where have you studied astrology?

Who are your teachers, Gabby?

Who do you look to in the astrology world?

---

posted October 19, 2012 02:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mirage29:
You may find these two books very interesting:
Betty Lundsted (1980) Astrological Insights into Personality. Ibis Press c)2004
and
Stephen Arroyo (1978,1992). Astrology Karma & Transformation: The Inner Dimensions of the Birth Chart, (2nd.rev&expanded). CRCS Publ usa.

(Of course, the WHOLE chart has to be considered....)

I think the books are saying that there is a tendency of [b]Moon-Neptune to "project" their ideals about others onto others. This is learned from 'mom' around development @ age 3yrs)... May have 'learned' how to unconsciously respond to others, in the same manner as your mother?

Betty Lunsted illustrated this-- describes dynamics in her client's childhood home in this way. In a setting where the mother of the child[w/moonSQneptune] was acting immorally and cheating on her husband but everyone 'knew' it... All the while, this mother kept up her lying, and telling everyone what a 'goody-two-shoes' she was. The family members sorta decide to "agree" to believe 'the image' and remain in a state of suspense-- they will be in denial, with her. They are to actively participate in the delusion. They do this even to the point of upholding this 'image' of their 'saintly' mother in public, hiding her under the shield mask she wanted everyone to believe about her.[/B]

---

posted October 19, 2012 03:19 PM            

You DO realize you are living through one of your "midlife" crises??

You are dealing with a "Kundalini" Special! yep... a holy Chiropractic adjustment, brought to you in part by "Uranus Opposition Uranus" ...

All that meditating you've been doing?? C'mon girl! I'm definitely betting on your side in this battle for self and Self, coming into its holy 'alignment' !!

It's HARD... but Jovian, you SPECIALIZE in things that are 'hard' to do@@ macho-wombman!!

In all your tears and analysis, the "jewel" being refined is YOU... I want to encourage and remind you that you have all the spiritual training to master this now.

It's the moment you've been just made to SHINE in.... NOW!! It's "the test" --- and that will bring great rewards to you in persevering. It will bring you something you have wished for. The big core of you REMAINS. Remember, when you don't know if you want to live or die? the default choice is ALWAYS "LIFE"--- "Choose Life!" and "staying alive"....

(Hey, remember?) Staying alive... it p*sses a few people off!!

You're BIGGER than anything that's happened in your family. You're BIGGER than anything Earthly that's ever put you under siege! The Tapestry of your life, and ALL your lives, is just material cover. YOU are what 'matters'.... you are so superior to all that..... Envision where you want to be... imagine Heaven on Earth (and it does NOT matter if it's a 'practical' one)... just BE there. The wall is an illusion.... Lovin' you!!! xo

posted October 19, 2012 03:52 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
I will read that! My mom was always perfect...but actually mentally unstable, but nobody could say that to her, everyone was afraid of not only her temper but her emotional frailty...
We all had to take our turns being her whipping boy, and act like whatever we were being accused of was true, we had help her not go over the edge totally!
I don't do this anymore i stand up to her now, one of my brothers moved so far away from her he never sees her and barely has contact, the other lives with her! Hes only 39, married 4 times and last wife just committed suicide...hes in so much pain, but all he can do is pick women just like mom, sick women he tries him to rescue. Hes still protecting moms sickness, actually enabling her sickness would be more appropriate! When he has no one he goes back to mom!

---

Gabby--- now what you just said about your mom is exactly what I tried (ineptly) to tell you from the very first post I ever sent you....(wherever the hell THAT was ...

I was horrified to think that the 'innocent' you were going to repeat that mistake; that you were "falling" for that "trick"--- AND yes, sometimes that happens...

The sickness of the family tries to LURE you back to themselves--- it's uncoscious (or even conscious) evil! JUST to "watch you FALL down" .... nothing would please them more, than for YOU to stay "identified" and tethered to their view of what role THEY want YOU TO fulfill for "THEM" in the public.

Sorry... I'm seeing the image of them "trying" this on YOU, and I think it's just utterly DESPICABLE!! Gabby??? DON'T FALL PREY TO WHAT MAY APPEAR AS them 'finally' arriving at their senses. NOOOOO!!!!

YOU are NOT them.... YOU are YOU.... Let them be "sick" all by themselves! PLEEZZZ ! Stay smiling, but keep your emotional distance as best you can.

I'm sooo glad to be saying this to you again.

Even though I hardly know you, when I had read that "past" of yours, I had RED FLAGS concerning your family's wish to re-unite with you. OMG...You were in such a good place from realizing that (really cool) post about Lilith and slapped in the face.

It's gonna take a lot of inner kindness towards yourself to extricate yourself from their little webbings.... Takes time, and repeatedly taking yourself back to finding out who YOU really are.

Pretty soon (in coming years) you'll be going through a transformation--- series of aspects to your chart called the 'midlife' transits.

At the end of a LONG tunnel, you'll be 'sifted' [ref. to Peter]. Will feel like a whole new life when it's done. Lots of pain, but choices that can set you free--- You've got the advantage of astrology to help map that out for you. We are sooo lucky to have that on our side. But YOU must do the work of maintaining and rebalancing, of being processed...

The universal sky transits going on right now will KEEP people shooting way up, dropping way down, then shooting way back up again. Know that 'manic'-seeming motion is "normal"... It's from all that "turbulence" which our "shared mutual plane" is experiencing. yipeeeee?? + YIKES!!!

posted October 19, 2012 03:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
I've read a ton of books...my grandma was Cherokee indian and studied native american astrolgy, her dad was a medicine man and she learned a lot from him. I wasnt allowed around her very much, my mom thought that was demonism. My grandma told me i had gifts but i never understood what that meant, then i took my kids on a disney cruise and in the straw market had a completely blind woman find me by my aura, she said. She also told me i had gifts...still not a clue what it means! LOL
But in the florida keys i met an indian who shook my hand and told me i had the spirit of a wolf...then said my birthday. When i realized he could do this with anyone i asked him how? He said, Astrology! Him and i talked for months, he showed me less about the specifics and more about the energy flows of the planets due to aspects, he said the energy flow was the soul of a person. He said the outer planets are tools we are given to use, they dont become a part of our soul except through the lessons we learn as we use them. He looked at everything in a fluid way, even the squares had a fluid motion just have to be creative enough to find it, everything can become beautiful in our souls we just have to be willing to see the bad, so we can manipulate it into something good. He said the problem isnt a bad soul, its the fear of seeing the bad in us that traps in inside because your not looking for a way to change it when you refuse to see it!
Anyway from the things he taught me i was able to start learning astrology and beginning to understand his concepts even though they werent typical, they still seem to have a lot of truth!

---

posted October 19, 2012 04:17 PM            

There was a blood relative (uncle, MGF's family) who lived on a Reservation somewhere in northeatern Canada. When I was very very young I remember visiting him there-- saw 'cows' and the very thick strong smells 'cows' create.

He was a shamin... when people in our family got sick, he would travel and come visit us. Cures seemed to involve poultices and salves and sprays.

(Actually, I overheard somehow that he was a 7th son of a 7th son--- and my m.grandfather went on to have all females for offspring!!)

Now, based upon 'folklore' (lies and deceptions) of my own warped beginnings, I take this info and just let that float...

What I remember is he was a real person, I KNEW this was an uncle, and I had been a personal recipient of some of his 'medicine'. I'm confused over the Native American implications, though...

I've read that you can be appointed as a shaman to a tribe or reservation and NOT be "Native" Amercian Indian?

posted October 19, 2012 05:10 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mirage29:
I was born and spent the first part of my childhood in the New England states area in northeastern USA.

There was a blood relative (uncle, MGF's family) who lived on a Reservation somewhere in northeatern Canada. When I was very very young I remember visiting him there-- saw 'cows' and the very thick strong smells 'cows' create.

He was a shamin... when people in our family got sick, he would travel and come visit us. Cures seemed to involve poultices and salves and sprays.

(Actually, I overheard somehow that he was a 7th son of a 7th son--- and my m.grandfather went on to have all females for offspring!!)

Now, based upon 'folklore' (lies and deceptions) of my own warped beginnings, I take this info and just let that float...

What I remember is he was a real person, I KNEW this was an uncle, and I had been a personal recipient of some of his 'medicine'. I'm confused over the Native American implications, though...

I've read that you can be appointed as a shaman to a tribe or reservation and NOT be "Native" Amercian Indian?

But when I would look at my M.Grandfather's face, it was not to be denied that he had 'Native' looks.... Sorta like Oral Roberts did... In fact, he resembled Oral Roberts a LOT! Heard that Oral had Native descent.

---

posted October 20, 2012 04:38 PM            

Devastating losses come into our lives...

Asteroid Vesta, Keeper of the Hearth, stations today...

As the world now churns with changes, filled with results that surprises sudden and final, may we all be able to find our secure place, our inner sanctum; may there be a soft place and rest... where an angel can minister quiet and peace to the soul.
now and forever...

Alison Krauss & Yo Yo Ma, Slumber My Darling (by Stephen Foster) [5:40]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xftn_mV7czA&feature=related

posted October 21, 2012 09:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mirage29:
My Darlings... Gabby, Jovian, and Ami Anne; and to whomever else may stop this way...

Devastating losses come into our lives...

Asteroid Vesta, Keeper of the Hearth, stations today...

As the world now churns with changes, filled with results that surprises sudden and final, may we all be able to find our secure place, our inner sanctum; may there be a soft place and rest... where an angel can minister quiet and peace to the soul.
now and forever...

Alison Krauss & Yo Yo Ma, Slumber My Darling (by Stephen Foster) [5:40]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xftn_mV7czA&feature=related

---