posted October 31, 2013 10:12 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I am just going to **echo** what Keela said above...that it seems to me that the Echo person has to try harder to let others know she has her own voice and what's she's saying is valid.

That does apply in my case.

Also with my Jupiter-Echo in the 9H, I DO quote people a lot, especially guru types. Keela doesn't, however, so it's not a clear-cut cause and effect there.

Also, a general note, and possibly my final say on this asteroid:

No offense to Ami of course, but I can't see how her recent article on Echo applies to me whatsoever, though I have to assume she is referring to me when she talks about people who just blabber on and on, being "politically correct"...because she has leveled the latter accusation at me a few times before, and I started this thread last week when she asked me where my Echo was, out of the blue.

I remain bewildered about her assessment of both me and this asteroid.

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posted October 31, 2013 11:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Well you seem familiar...my life is full of Leos, though. Unlike some other signs, like Gemini or Virgo, where I now know almost nobody with that sun sign.

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I have plenty of early Virgos around. Two planets in the region, reason enough.

As to Zeus, I think the order was Ouranos/Uranus, Chronos/Saturn and then Zeus as the youngest of the six siblings making the core of the Olympian gods. The younger god/s always killed the fathers, whether to keep from being killed themselves or not.

posted November 01, 2013 10:46 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Keela:

Gabby has a thread below asking if Echo brings back the energy of what it conjuncts in synastry. http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum28/HTML/001349.html

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That is an interesting thought actually!

posted November 01, 2013 11:13 AM            

I found it so telling, that the asteroid Eros is actually a Leo, while both Amor and Psyche are PIsces. (Cupido is a LIbra actually).

the centaur Nessus is actually a Taurus (yeah, he can be posesive, we know that. lol), and Sun of this chart is opposite Nessus in Scorpio exact.

Anyway back to Echo`s discovery chart:

So the lady is a VIRGO (a nymph after all. lol), though the time is unknonw, her Moon is also certainly in Virgo.
With Mercury - you guessed it, in Virgo.

Virgo the sign of adaptation to the environment. Let`s keep that in the back of our minds.

Sun on 22 Virgo is trine asteroid Anteros (reciprocal) on 21 Capricorn.
Valentine is on 00 Libra exact, the most predominant poin for partnership, no for the reflection, the "Echo".

the NN on 00 Aquarius (!) is conjunct Amor on 1 Aquarius, Nessus is on 1 Leo on the SN.
Valentine is obviously trine the NN exact.

It seems the lady needs to grow, extend herself beyond greedy selfishness and the "I WAnt - no matter what the others say" of Nessus on the SN.

The virgo in her needs to adapt, listens to responses, modify her behaviour.

Amor on the NN (in Aquarius no less), Valentine trine NN - that is her aim, that is where her journey is leading to. Unconditional devoted love. Love even without the guarantee of reciprocration.
Just because.

However, Sun is trine Anteros, the God of reciprocal love.
But the SAbian here is ineresting:

By Accepting Defeat Gracefully, A General Reveals Nobility Of Character

the asteroid Echo herself is on 16 PIsces, the sign of, well, spiritualized love I`d say.
It is, how could it be not the case? - trine Narcissus on 14.51 Scorpio.

However, what I find most intriguing, is this:

Eros on 11 Virgo squares Uranus on 12 Gemini tightly:

The sabian of Eros is
After The Wedding, The Groom Snatches The Veil Away From His Bride

It is also trine Pluto on 9 Taurus:
A Red Cross Nurse

Another symbol of giving and being of assistance.

posted November 01, 2013 11:23 AM            

When she met him, her voice had already been taken away by Juno (as a punishment) and she could only repeat the last words being spoken. Maybe Narcissus partially rejected her becuase she had nothing ov value to say.
Actually it would make sense if whatever touches her, she is internalizing, sucking in, making it a part of herself, because Echo will always reflect, give back what touches her, in the myth in form of the last words being spoken. In that she seems almost like a mirror, at least mentally.

posted November 01, 2013 02:41 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

Actually it would make sense if whatever touches her, she is internalizing, sucking in, making it a part of herself, because Echo will always reflect, give back what touches her, in the myth in form of the last words being spoken. In that she seems almost like a mirror, at least mentally.

Which is ironical if you think of it. Narcissus died when he was getting lost in the admiration of his reflection in the water.
Of course that was a reflection of his physical Self, whereas Echo, devoid of physicality in the end (she ceases to have a body, only her voice and echo remains), gives back, mirrors the thoughts and words of the other person.

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posted November 01, 2013 03:18 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Delilah423:
Thanks so much for putting into words what I was thinking about earlier in the week when I was lurking on this thread. I think the fact that Echo is reflecting sound/words and Narcissus is enamored of his own reflection are key to understanding this pair.

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posted November 01, 2013 03:30 PM            

So our beautiful narcisist is a Scorpio - brings to mind that in Echos discovery chrat Narcissus was in Scorpio. lol

Interestingly the asteroid Echo is on 16 Capricorn conjunct the SN on 17 Cap.
A Repressed Woman Finds A Psychological Release In Nudism

Well, Echo becomes really nude, in that only her spirit remains in the end of the myth.

this chart also features an Amor-Psyche-conjunction. We did not really expect that, did we?

Valentine trine NN here as well, just like in the Echo-chart.

posted November 01, 2013 04:10 PM            

Echo has no voice. That is her myth. How is she gonna bring back the voice of someone else if she has no voice. One has to stay true to the myths or why bother.
I am not saying that one can chew over things but to make up totally different stories will not help someone understand her chart.
This goes against the myth totally imo

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posted November 01, 2013 06:24 PM            

" tantum haec in fine loquendi
ingeminat voces auditaque verba reportat."

and when she meets Narcissus:

"forte puer ...
dixerat: 'ecquis adest?' et 'adest' responderat Echo.
hic stupet, utque aciem partes dimittit in omnis,
voce 'veni!' magna clamat: vocat illa vocantem.
respicit et rursus nullo veniente 'quid' inquit
'me fugis?' et totidem, quot dixit, verba recepit.
perstat et alternae deceptus imagine vocis
'huc coeamus' ait, nullique libentius umquam
responsura sono 'coeamus' rettulit Echo"
http://www.gottwein.de/Lat/ov/ovmet03339.php

posted November 01, 2013 06:25 PM            

Specifically the "repeat the voice of another" bit if the question still is "How is she gonna bring back the voice of someone else". Gabby's question was about bringing back/echoing energies, not about someone else having gone mute and Echo supposedly miraculously fixing that. Reflection (of sound) and echoing are the myth. That Gabby phrases it as she does is apparently misread yet again (Mercury time for you, possibly exarcebated by the current transits otherwise).

In Greek mythology, Ekho (Greek: Ἠχώ, Ēkhō, "echo", from ἦχος (ēchos), "sound" was an Oread (a mountain nymph) who loved her own voice. Zeus loved consorting with beautiful nymphs and visited them on Earth often. Eventually, Zeus's wife, Hera, became suspicious, and came from Mt. Olympus in an attempt to catch Zeus with the nymphs.

Sometimes the young and beautiful nymph Echo would distract and amuse Zeus' wife, Hera, with long and entertaining stories while Zeus took advantage of the moment to ravish the other mountain nymphs. When Hera discovered the trickery, she was so annoyed she punished the talkative Echo by taking away her voice, except in foolish repetition of another's shouted words. Thus, all Echo could do was repeat the voice of another.[3]

Echo fell in love with a vain youth named Narcissus, who was the son of the Nymph Liriope of Thespiae. The river god Cephisus had once encircled Liriope with the windings of his streams, trapping her, and seduced the nymph. Concerned about her infant son's future, Liriope consulted the seer Teiresias. The nymph asked the seer if her son would live to see the old age of senescence, to which Teiresias replied "if he does not know himself."[3]

One day when Narcissus was out hunting stags, Echo stealthily followed the handsome youth through the woods longing to address him but unable to speak first. When Narcissus finally heard footsteps and shouted, "Who's there?" Echo answered, "Who's there?" Confused, Narcissus looked around and upon seeing no one around, asked "Why do you run from me?" which Echo in turn repeats to the young hunter. Finally he said, "Let us meet together."[3] Echo, never being more eager to reply to anyone, repeats "Let's meet." To emphasize her words, she exits the woods in order to wrap her hands around Narcissus in longing. He runs away from her embrace and says, whilst running "May I die before what’s mine is yours." She repeats only "what's mine is yours."[3] Heartbroken by Narcissus, Echo spent the rest of her life in lonely glens pining away for the love she never knew, crying until all that was left was her voice. However, in other versions Echo cries until only her voice and her bones remain, then turned into stone, roaming forever to haunt the earth.[3

The most popular version of the Echo/Narcissus story depicts that Narcissus later came to a still pool, and caught sight of his own reflection. He became enamored of his own beauty, and didn't realize that he was looking at himself, because any words of love he would mutter to his reflection, Echo would repeat around him.
From then, he either withered until he became a narcissus, still bending over to look at himself.
Or, he realized that he loved his own image. Which resulted in killing himself, out of despair, with his hunting knife. And from the drops of his blood were spawned the first narcissi.

Echo was a beautiful and musical nymph who could sing and play many instruments.[4] She lived in the woods and denied the love of any man or god.[4] Pan, a lecherous god, fell in love with Echo, but she ran away from him. He became so angry when she refused him, he created such a "panic" causing a group of shepherds to kill her. Echo was torn to pieces and spread all over the Earth.[5] The goddess of the earth, Gaia, received the pieces of Echo, whose voice remains repeating the last words of others.[4] In some versions, Echo and Pan had two children: Iambe[6] and Iynx[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_%28mythology%29

Echo otherwise:

posted November 01, 2013 06:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Yes, one has to stay true to the myth. And Echo has a voice, just it is limited to repeat other people`s last words.

---

That is not an authentic voice. It may be a literal one.

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posted November 01, 2013 06:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b]Can Echo brings back the energy of what it conjuncts in synastry.

Echo has no voice. That is her myth.
[/B]

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That is what you wrote. And that is just not the truth.
She has a voice.

posted November 01, 2013 06:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
How is she gonna bring back the voice of someone else if she has no voice.

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Actually she can ONLY bring back the voice or words of someone else, that is her curse/ punishment. It`s all there in the myth.

posted November 01, 2013 06:51 PM            

YES this is what I call a voice.

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posted November 01, 2013 07:12 PM            

Exactly, she is an ECHO. That is what I said at the beginning

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posted November 01, 2013 07:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
With Mercury - you guessed it, in Virgo.

Virgo the sign of adaptation to the environment. Let`s keep that in the back of our minds.

Valentine is on 00 Libra exact, the most predominant point for partnership, no for the reflection, the "Echo".

the NN on 00 Aquarius (!) is conjunct Amor on 1 Aquarius, Nessus is on 1 Leo on the SN.

The virgo in her needs to adapt, listens to responses, modify her behaviour.

Amor on the NN (in Aquarius no less), Valentine trine NN - that is her aim, that is where her journey is leading to. Unconditional devoted love. Love even without the guarantee of reciprocration.

the asteroid Echo herself is on 16 PIsces, the sign of, well, spiritualized love I`d say.

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Thank you for the discovery chart. I do like Virgo Mercurys.

Interestingly, my Amor is at 16 Pisces opposite Mercury. Ceri, I posted some other Sabians for you below. Blain Bovee's call on the Sabians for Echo's 16 Pis-Vir first:

Pisces 17: An Easter promenade

The way into understanding Pisces 17, "An Easter promenade" lies in the opposing degree, Virgo 17 "A volcano in eruption". The idea is to feel the enormous burst of powerful energies and yet place them in a social context, such as going for a stroll on a lovely Easter afternoon.

In previous Sabian symbol posts for this degree, I have described this as 'the wild man in polite society'. Picture someone who has had the most moving inspiration, rushing out into the street to tell everybody.

Chances are that if someone is erupting in excitement and intensity... like a volcano in eruption... it is unlikely that everyday, polite society is ready or even able to receive the news. This is the challenge of Pisces 17.

The dynamic tends to flow this way: there are high, rigid social standards and expectations. Perhaps even severe moral standards. One feels the need to duck and dive around the oppressive social atmosphere, but then, it becomes all too much and an inner force of sheer inspiration bursts forth. The inspired individual runs out into the streets proclaiming his or her new truth! Alas, the reception is less enthusiastic. But as time and development goes on, there is an uplifting influence, perhaps through humour, perhaps through force of persevering character."
http://sabiansymbol.typepad.com/blain_bovee_sabian_symbol/2010/03/pisces-1 7-an-easter-promenade.html

The whys of whatever information thrown in is to inspire further insights. Isn't that the point of any sharing of info? It's just regrettable that nobody else seems to have posted either the discovery chart or other basics earlier already.

Bovee writes the following on the NN Sabian of Aquarius 1, An Old Adobe Mission (in California):

"Theme: Mission

Inspiration: Build a mission in the new land of your own calling. From these roots destiny and destination are in your hands."

Echo, Pisces 17. "An Easter promenade. Keywords: celebration, social life, display, to request attention."

NN, Aquarius 1. "An old adobe mission. Keywords: durability, stability, symbolism, heritage, tradition."

Amor, Aquarius 2. "An unexpected thunderstorm. Keywords: inventiveness, creativity, anger, ambition, determination, change, surprise, accident, choleric person."

SN, Leo 1. "A case of apoplexy. Keywords: anger, crisis, need for stability, overwhelming potentiality."

Nessus, Leo 2. "An epidemic of mumps. Keywords: infection, uncontrolled situation, over activity, crisis."

Valentine, 1 Libra:
"A butterfly made perfect by a dart through it. Keywords: self-expression, art, perfection, durability, a valuable creation which won't lose her value in time, harmony."

posted November 02, 2013 07:12 AM            

They want to mitigate everything to make it something that is palatable to them like making everything vanilla ice cream.

The only way to be a whole person is to accept all of oneself.

I have Jung conjunct the Sun. What can I say

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posted November 02, 2013 08:15 AM            

It is also on the same degree as my Reiki-Circe-Sekhmet-Tesla:

"An Old Bridge Over A Beautiful Stream Is Still In Constant Use"

Sun and Mercury are also on the same degree as Robinhood (and Nofretete):
A Flag Bearer In A Battle

So?

Oh and Freud is conjunct Adler in my 6th house. lol

with the Sabian of:

Holly And Mistletoe Reawaken Old Memories Of Christmas

and

posted November 02, 2013 08:33 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:

Exactly, she is an ECHO. That is what I said at the beginning

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For the record:

Nobody is just an Echo, not even you, and you very often quote people in their entirety here with an enthusiastic "I agree!!!" I mean, has jwhop ever opened his mouth and got dissent from you? You say you are working on yourself but seriously...why not do that before lashing out at others?

I still have no idea what you are insinuating about me, or why you chose to bring this up to begin with. I guess you're just immature, trying to make yourself feel better by taunting other people.

*Whatever*

I think it's funny that I made an Echo thread and you immediately made another one...how's that for an echo?

posted November 02, 2013 08:47 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Keela:

Echo was a beautiful and musical nymph who could sing and play many instruments.[4] She lived in the woods and denied the love of any man or god.[4] Pan, a lecherous god, fell in love with Echo, but she ran away from him. He became so angry when she refused him, he created such a "panic" causing a group of shepherds to kill her. Echo was torn to pieces and spread all over the Earth.[5] The goddess of the earth, Gaia, received the pieces of Echo, whose voice remains repeating the last words of others.[4] In some versions, Echo and Pan had two children: Iambe[6] and Iynx[7][/i]

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How could she sing and play musical instruments if she had no voice of her own, no way of expressing herself?

Was there some other musician in the words singing and playing for her, and she was imitating him or her constantly? Why didn't Pan just go for that other person then?

Also, if she ran from Pan, it shows how well she can express her own thoughts using body language. Instead of saying "No" she just bolted.

posted November 02, 2013 08:50 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ail221:
Are we really doing the down road I have X placement therefore my opinion is the most important one. LOL OK.

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I think Ceri wins because she has two planets conjunct Jung, and Jung is really what matters most of all.

I totally lose because I can't even find what Jung's asteroid number is...so I have no Jung in my chart yet.

ETA:

Oh wait! I found it, it's 11518 for all you readers out there who want to play along