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Author
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Topic: Proserpina and Persephone and Pluto
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VelvetPriestess
Knowflake Posts: 190
From:
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted April 14, 2015 08:24 PM
  
What's the difference between these two asteroids and their meanings?I had thought for some time they were the same but I did the tarot cards about these two asteroids and their synastry relationship with Pluto, and while the cards indicate strong feelings on both sides with both asteroids and Pluto, they also suggest that it is Pluto and Persephone that is the most powerful pairing. A very strong mutual one. So the two asteroids can't be the same if the cards are right.
IP: Logged |
angel4845
Knowflake Posts: 2980
From: USA
Registered: Oct 2014
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posted April 14, 2015 08:50 PM
I think they aren't the same from what I read on those two asteroids ...  anyone what do you guys think?? ------------------
Sun Capricorn, Moon Aries, Libra Rising IP: Logged |
ail221
Moderator Posts: 7119
From: Hanging Gardens of Babylon
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted April 14, 2015 09:25 PM
Hades is traditionally paired with Persephone/Kore (Greek)
Pluto with Proserpina (Roman)
The pairings are still valid when switched.IP: Logged |
VelvetPriestess
Knowflake Posts: 190
From:
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted April 14, 2015 09:49 PM
Thanks for that, so from an astrological point of view Proserpina and Persephone are interchangable?Do you tend to only use one? ie. 399, 26, h57, or place them all anyway? IP: Logged |
ail221
Moderator Posts: 7119
From: Hanging Gardens of Babylon
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted April 14, 2015 10:20 PM
I use all of them because their all conjunct something significant in my chart. Asteroid importance are dependent on how much they effect your natal chart personally as opposed to using the right combination of Hades with Persephone or Pluto with Persephone.IP: Logged |
VelvetPriestess
Knowflake Posts: 190
From:
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted April 14, 2015 10:54 PM
Never even thought of adding Hades asteroid into a chart. Might take a look since there seems to be a theme of Pluto/Persephone/Proserpina aspects in a synastry I am studying. Might as well take a look and see if it continues with this other asteroid. It might not, as the theme is said already.IP: Logged |
VelvetPriestess
Knowflake Posts: 190
From:
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted April 14, 2015 10:59 PM
Yep Hades Persephone is there too, definitely a theme of that synastry.IP: Logged |
Aubyanne
Moderator Posts: 6702
From: Tinseltown, Hollyweird, The Multiverse
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted April 15, 2015 03:42 AM
A lot of us tend to go with PERSEPHONE for 'pre-Hades' involvement, with PROSERPINA reflecting the 'Queen of the Underworld' achievement, so to speak.HADES and PERSEPHONE tend to be a pair, along with PLUTO and PROSERPINA. Just theories, but that's what tends to be standard. IP: Logged |
Aubyanne
Moderator Posts: 6702
From: Tinseltown, Hollyweird, The Multiverse
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted April 15, 2015 03:43 AM
quote:
Originally posted by VelvetPriestess:
Never even thought of adding Hades asteroid into a chart. Might take a look since there seems to be a theme of Pluto/Persephone/Proserpina aspects in a synastry I am studying. Might as well take a look and see if it continues with this other asteroid. It might not, as the theme is said already.
HADES moves very slowly, but being a TNP has a multidimensional bent to him. It's a fascinating point worth exploring. I discussed him in another asteroid thread recently. IP: Logged |
VelvetPriestess
Knowflake Posts: 190
From:
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted April 15, 2015 06:44 AM
quote:
HADES moves very slowly, but being a TNP has a multidimensional bent to him. It's a fascinating point worth exploring. I discussed him in another asteroid thread recently.
This sounds interesting Aubyanne, what is a TNP and why multidimensional, would you explain for me? When you talk about Persephone for pre-Hades involvement, what do you mean astrologically? IP: Logged |
Aubyanne
Moderator Posts: 6702
From: Tinseltown, Hollyweird, The Multiverse
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted April 15, 2015 04:44 PM
VP,That's a longer, but interesting, discussion. Raymond (Glaucus) and Ernesto (eastrologer.net) have seen that the TNP (Uranian) points have an extradimensional / multidimensional / transdimensional application. I began investigating that seriously last summer, and what I've seen is intriguing to me. I've found CUPIDO (h40), for example, to be present in Soulmate relationships and deep multidimensional soul connexions -- often in astounding ways. HADES is a TNP / Uranian, so it has that multidimensional context as well. As to PERSEPHONE being 'pre-Hades', to me, that's prior to her abduction into the Underworld. She represents the feelings of leaving home, (according to Martha Lang-Wescott) or having to flee the familiar; how we can feel uneasy and unprepared. HADES isn't the most natural fit with her, but the two ARE from the same cultural mythology, and, for that, they're a definite pair. PROSERPINA, on the other hand, is Persephone transformed. She's now become the Queen of the Underworld and earnt her rightful place within the hierarchy. She's no longer a 'pawn' but a 'queen'. So, PROSERPINA has power, whereas PERSEPHONE is more in a victim role, unsure of how to proceed, reacting, more than taking charge. It's an evolution. IP: Logged |
VelvetPriestess
Knowflake Posts: 190
From:
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted April 15, 2015 09:38 PM
Right, the same woman (Goddess) at different stages of her life.Thanks for that Aubyanne. Interesting stuff. I have only heard of Cupido as finding things appealing, but not as a soulmate link, this is fascinating. Any particular aspects or just that Cupido tends to feature strongly in your experience? IP: Logged |
Blind writer
Knowflake Posts: 636
From: Texas, USA
Registered: May 2012
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posted April 15, 2015 10:18 PM
The Uranian school has a unique perspective on their set of hypothetical points. I don't like using them much myself, except perhaps in natal narrative. They move suuuuper slowly, sometimes even slower than PLUTO, so trying to find meaningful synastric connections is like pulling teeth.But that's for another thread... As Aubyanne pointed out, the asteroids reflect different stages of her development, somewhat similar to BML vs asteroid LILITH (1181). PERSEPHONE has a kind of disillusioned naiveté to her, with expectations of rescue from her mother (DEMETER[1108]/CERES[1] - likewise, asteroids of differing demeanor). She's like a fawn drowning. PROSERPINA has learned to swim in the rivers of Hades, and commands herself with confidence and feminine authority. PLUTO is obsessed with PERSEPHONE. PROSERPINA has asserted herself, and demands respectful equality. Here, she is more responsive to PLUTO. IP: Logged |
Aubyanne
Moderator Posts: 6702
From: Tinseltown, Hollyweird, The Multiverse
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted April 15, 2015 10:50 PM
Don't you start dissin' my HADES, BW. Them's fightin' words.  IP: Logged |
Blind writer
Knowflake Posts: 636
From: Texas, USA
Registered: May 2012
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posted April 15, 2015 11:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Don't you start dissin' my HADES, BW. Them's fightin' words.
Here, have some Lethe tea. IP: Logged |
Aubyanne
Moderator Posts: 6702
From: Tinseltown, Hollyweird, The Multiverse
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted April 16, 2015 12:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Blind writer:
Here, have some Lethe tea.
Elim used to make that. Lethe tea. Because he certainly got the joke. Funny, it never tasted like anything other than Earl Grey, but it WAS Lethe tea, I assure you. Naturally, this was during the 'let's create Penderan infusions' period. Some good teas came of that. IP: Logged |
Aubyanne
Moderator Posts: 6702
From: Tinseltown, Hollyweird, The Multiverse
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted April 16, 2015 12:12 AM
Also, VP, CORA (504) is said to have a link to Kore, which might, possibly, represent a kind of 'triple Goddess' energy with PERSEPHONE and PROSERPINA: Maiden, Matron, and Crone. (Though, of course, not exactly, as PROSERPINA wasn't a crone goddess like Hecate.)IP: Logged |
VelvetPriestess
Knowflake Posts: 190
From:
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted April 17, 2015 07:33 PM
quote:
Also, VP, CORA (504) is said to have a link to Kore, which might, possibly, represent a kind of 'triple Goddess' energy with PERSEPHONE and PROSERPINA: Maiden, Matron, and Crone. (Though, of course, not exactly, as PROSERPINA wasn't a crone goddess like Hecate.)
I was curious, so I asked the cards what the effect on a relationship between two people was when there was an aspect between Pluto and the asteroid Cora, and they said Judgment and Temperance - both majors. Now I don't know if you're into tarot, but that says to me that Cora/Pluto links do have a strong effect in synastry. IP: Logged |
morgana
Knowflake Posts: 46
From:
Registered: Dec 2014
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posted May 21, 2015 04:19 AM
Hi, I would like to know your thoughts regarding these asteroid aspects. I know the Myth between Persephone/Proserpina and Pluto, but how does that translate in the real world. Thank you!In my natal I have:
Persephone conjunct Sun 1° In Synastry:
My Persephone conjunct his Pluto 0°
My Proserpina conjunct his Pluto 1° Transits for the day that we'll meet... Transits to our Natal Charts:
His Pluto conjunct transit Destinn 0°
My Persephone conjunct transit Destinn 0°
My Proserpina conjunct transit Destinn 2° Transits to the Progressed Charts:
T. Proserpina conjunct my P. NN 2°
T. Destinn conjunct my P. Persephone 2°
T. Destinn conjunct his P. Pluto 0° Transits to the Composite:
T. Pluto conjunct C. Persephone 2° Synastry overlay:
My Sun is in his 8th house Also in Synastry...
My Sun conjunct his Pluto (in his 8H) 1° IP: Logged |
Ceridwen
unregistered
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posted May 21, 2015 04:33 AM
I used to be very adamant in my AVERSION of the hypothetical objects, because they are.... hypothetical.
Lately though I find myself mellowing.
though honestly I have mostly looked out for h40 CUPIDO. Maybe it just fascinates me so much as it conjuncts my Union-asteroid on 29 Libra exactly, and Uranus on my 11th house cusp by 2 degrees. (actually it is the other way round Union and Uranus conjunct Cupido, as Cupido is slower).
I have found Proserpina-Pluto to be most frequent in synatries. Persephone certainly plays a role, too, but maybe it is like Auby said. She is the Virginal goddess while Proserpina tends to be the queen of the underworld, mated to Pluto.
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Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 71607
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 21, 2015 01:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by VelvetPriestess:
What's the difference between these two asteroids and their meanings?I had thought for some time they were the same but I did the tarot cards about these two asteroids and their synastry relationship with Pluto, and while the cards indicate strong feelings on both sides with both asteroids and Pluto, they also suggest that it is Pluto and Persephone that is the most powerful pairing. A very strong mutual one. So the two asteroids can't be the same if the cards are right.
The first two, I think, are the same.
------------------
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Ami Anne
Moderator Posts: 71607
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted May 21, 2015 01:37 PM
In practical terms, they show a hard rite of passage from teen to adult, from my experience with charts.------------------
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hypatia238
Moderator Posts: 6738
From:
Registered: Sep 2014
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posted May 16, 2017 01:01 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Aubyanne:
VP,That's a longer, but interesting, discussion. Raymond (Glaucus) and Ernesto (eastrologer.net) have seen that the TNP (Uranian) points have an extradimensional / multidimensional / transdimensional application. I began investigating that seriously last summer, and what I've seen is intriguing to me. I've found CUPIDO (h40), for example, to be present in Soulmate relationships and deep multidimensional soul connexions -- often in astounding ways. HADES is a TNP / Uranian, so it has that multidimensional context as well. As to PERSEPHONE being 'pre-Hades', to me, that's prior to her abduction into the Underworld. She represents the feelings of leaving home, (according to Martha Lang-Wescott) or having to flee the familiar; how we can feel uneasy and unprepared. HADES isn't the most natural fit with her, but the two ARE from the same cultural mythology, and, for that, they're a definite pair. PROSERPINA, on the other hand, is Persephone transformed. She's now become the Queen of the Underworld and earnt her rightful place within the hierarchy. She's no longer a 'pawn' but a 'queen'. So, PROSERPINA has power, whereas PERSEPHONE is more in a victim role, unsure of how to proceed, reacting, more than taking charge. It's an evolution.
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