posted May 11, 2016 02:48 PM            

The father was EXTREMELY abusive towards the daughter, physically, verbally and emotionally. There was NO sexual abuse, but he referred to her as a "wh@re" / "s!ut" etc etc - words that NO father should ever use on a daughter - repeatedly during her formative years. He last accused her of having an extra-marital affair (in her husband's presence, no less !) in 2014.

I believe that the Mars - Sun opposition was explosive to begin with, and his Nessus conjunct her Mars did little to help. It is my suspicion that the father experienced severe and chronic abuse, which he then turned around and perpetrated on the daughter. That is my interpretation anyway and I could be wrong. He is also Virgo rising, with a Sag moon, if that makes any difference.

Incidentally, the daughter is a Capricorn ascendant with a tight conjunct of Ascendant, Dejanira and North Node, which I believe are classic "victim" signs, setting her up for a lifetime of abuse (potentially) ?

posted May 11, 2016 02:53 PM            

You are a new LL person, so I am giving you some things I have learned in 7 years here.

If someone baits you, try to ignore. That person is, usually, baiting other people and it really is not personal lol

You will find many, many people with whom you will have amazing relationships, so look for them xx

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posted May 11, 2016 02:56 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
@WhyMe

You are a new LL person, so I am giving you some things I have learned in 7 years here.

If someone baits you, try to ignore. That person is, usually, baiting other people and it really is not personal lol

You will find many, many people with whom you will have amazing relationships, so look for them xx

---

Thank you, dear. I want to learn and not to cause drama, so I apologize for my angry reactions. Yougang has given me a lot of study material and I like her (or his ?) clear explanations on the topic.

posted May 11, 2016 02:58 PM            

But we just went through so much in this thread only to learn you knew the answer all along... So Faith's initial response was really spot on, right?... she was like "only abuse indicates abuse." And this is true and valid...

posted May 11, 2016 02:58 PM            

Drama is caused by the people causing drama lol

If you want my opinion, start a new thread addressed to me and I will give it, so *I* don't add to the drama

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posted May 11, 2016 03:09 PM            

"so I apologize for my angry reactions"

posted May 11, 2016 03:11 PM            

My Mars was on his Nessus-Deja midpoint.

His Nessus tightly square my sun.

Nicest man I ever knew. Zero abuse.

---

My mother had Nessus-SN/Deja-NN both square Ceres-Pluto.

She could be difficult sometimes but never abused me. I do not see her as an abusive person. And my father certainly never abused her.

posted May 11, 2016 03:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by yungang_grotto:

But we just went through so much in this thread only to learn you knew the answer all along... So Faith's initial response was really spot on, right?... she was like "only abuse indicates abuse." And this is true and valid...

It is interesting to try to guess i suppose based on the aspects and I can see now that you were probably just trying to see which aspects specifically describe this situation you are aware of.. but if you know the answer and can enlighten us then why not do so? When Faith made her initial reply why did you not simply confirm that the abuse had indeed occurred? I'm a bit confused. [/B]

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It wasn't intentional to withhold any information. As I said before, it is easy to "spot abuse" after the fact. Hindsight is 20/20, right ?

My main interest is in learning / harnessing the predictive power of astrology. Had the two charts and their synastry landed in the hands of an astrologer, would that astrologer have been currently able to predict an abusive "relationship" and advise the father (or the daughter) or whoever approached him or her accordingly ? Now, I am not saying that the astrologer should have accused the father of being an abusive personality, but I am talking in terms of advising the potential victim of possible next steps.

Of course, in the case of a father and his daughter dynamic, a daughter cannot choose who her father is. However, one has the option to choose one's romantic partner. If we could learn - through experience / analysis - what aspects can cause abuse, or make for potential abuse / victimization - then wouldn't that be useful information to provide to people who are seeking an opinion and considering getting into a potentially destructive long term relationship, BEFORE the fact ?

In my opinion, an attitude of "only abuse will prove an abusive father" sets up a situation where an astrologer may end up disregarding classic abuse markers in birth charts and therefore not warning either party of the potentially abusive nature of the relationship that could be established. Telling a victim decades after the abuse that his or her chart showed abuse at the hands of his or her abuser is too little, too late. '

I don't know if I am explaining this very well, but I am hoping you catch my drift ?

quote:

---

Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
From WhyMe:

"so I apologize for my angry reactions"

It was over the top and it's good to acknowledge and apologize.

---

posted May 11, 2016 03:59 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
YOU are not causing drama.

Drama is caused by the people causing drama lol

If you want my opinion, start a new thread addressed to me and I will give it, so *I* don't add to the drama

---

posted May 11, 2016 04:20 PM            

quote:

---

Again, not to flog a dead horse, but it is neither kind nor respectful to presume motivations without giving anyone the benefit of doubt and to keep doing it, even when you know the other person is getting hurt. I hope that you see that, too.

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posted May 11, 2016 04:40 PM            

quote:

---

It wasn't intentional to withhold any information. As I said before, it is easy to "spot abuse" after the fact. Hindsight is 20/20, right ?

---

But--did you learn that between now and the time you posted the initial question? It doesn't really matter and maybe I'm splitting hairs...

quote:

---

My main interest is in learning / harnessing the predictive power of astrology. Had the two charts and their synastry landed in the hands of an astrologer, would that astrologer have been currently able to predict an abusive "relationship" and advise the father (or the daughter) or whoever approached him or her accordingly ?

---

With complete charts, and a competent astrologer, I think they could have advised these people in a helpful manner. Yes, certainly.

quote:

---

Now, I am not saying that the astrologer should have accused the father of being an abusive personality, but I am talking in terms of advising the potential victim of possible next steps.

Of course, in the case of a father and his daughter dynamic, a daughter cannot choose who her father is. However, one has the option to choose one's romantic partner. If we could learn - through experience / analysis - what aspects can cause abuse, or make for potential abuse / victimization - then wouldn't that be useful information to provide to people who are seeking an opinion and considering getting into a potentially destructive long term relationship, BEFORE the fact ?

In my opinion, an attitude of "only abuse will prove an abusive father" sets up a situation where an astrologer may end up disregarding classic abuse markers in birth charts and therefore not warning either party of the potentially abusive nature of the relationship that could be established. Telling a victim decades after the abuse that his or her chart showed abuse at the hands of his or her abuser is too little, too late. '

I don't know if I am explaining this very well, but I am hoping you catch my drift ?

---

I do see what you're saying. I don't think anything in terms of trauma counseling is too little too late personally. I think it can always be healing to have the abuse acknowledged and to begin to harness your power through clarity.

I don't know if warning from an astrologer is going to be enough to prevent an abusive relationship from occurring if there's heavy karma between the two people. But it can help clarify the situation and make somebody aware of the potential for abuse, and show them the nuances of it, and the way through the challenges via their own personal chart, issues by transit and progression, give support and guidance in working through the issues which have them in this position.

I'm of the opinion that counseling astrologers are most useful for relationship consultation once a relationship is actually underway because things have meat and can be explored and understood in depth. I don't think anybody at the outset of a romantic involvement will be capable of listening to even the most well formulated, well intentioned warning... We must experience things for ourselves to really know...

That kind of information if not used judiciously can be damaging in itself too, right? Warning somebody of potential abuse based on a SINGLE Nessus aspect is definitely not good practise in my opinion. The same advice based on a thorough investigation of both charts and their interplay is another story but still not likely to be received fully because in my experience we're incapable of learning these things until we're ready and usually we are meant to learn by experience. Otherwise we could just look at charts all day and not live...

There's too much psychic power in a consulting astrologer's hands to go saying "this person will abuse you"--when the relationship is in its infancy, based on one or two aspects... because that may colour the person's expectations and may indeed be totally untrue.

quote:

---

Yes, it was an over-the-top reaction to over-the-top accusations. I should never have got myself progressively more angry by engaging in a 1:1 when it would have been best -- for my sanity and my feelings -- to let it go . Again, not to flog a dead horse, but it is neither kind nor respectful to presume motivations without giving anyone the benefit of doubt and to keep doing it, even when you know the other person is getting hurt. I hope that you see that, too.

---

I understand that you perceived Faith's comments as accusatory, and can see where you're coming from in the conversation. Your language got heated quickly and it became difficult to see the actual content.

It is a delicate and loaded subject, abuse. I think Faith might have been reacting based on her own life experiences to your post so I was reading from that tentative hypothesis. I can see that you were both coming from very different places and both defending things you believe strongly/your own position.

posted May 11, 2016 04:44 PM            

That is sad.

There is a new asteroid one of my clients told me about. It shows when people are not believed.

Put the info on a separate thread.

Thanks xx

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posted May 18, 2016 02:44 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
No

Only abuse indicates an abusive father.

---

This really bothers me, Faith. This girl has not come back and your writing this NASTY comment may be part of why. Please, try to reach out to newcomers in a kind way. Thanks!

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posted May 18, 2016 05:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Electro DGX:
I honestly don't understand how that comment was nasty Ami. In all honesty, she was just sharing what she thought was correct on the matter by stating that if a father is abusive, then that indicates an abusive father, nothing more. She simply does not agree on the matter of using astrology as a basis for pinpointing abuse. Besides, there is nothing to be gained by stirring up more issues when this post has been forgotten for nearly seven days. It's time to forget and move on

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posted May 18, 2016 07:44 PM              

Thanks

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Thanks

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posted May 19, 2016 01:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
edit ~

Everyone has the potential to abuse others but that doesn't mean they will, regardless of how Nessus shows up in the charts.

I do think using Nessus to make snap judgments and slander people accordingly is immoral.

This subforum is becoming a Nessus Witch Hunt forum and it disgusts me.

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Just saw this thread, and..oh my.

posted May 19, 2016 05:06 PM            

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posted May 19, 2016 05:21 PM            

When I posted that, the top three topics on this forum had Nessus in the title, and I thought, "God...enough already...how long is this trend going to go on??" I resent the fact that Ami's sensationalist approach dominates this forum.

There is a difference between astrologers and their approaches.

Ami encourages people to think the worst of others and will do so using a smug, definitive tone. And she pretends she has credibility when she does not. I honestly think she cannot even read a birth chart. I've never seen her exhibit that ability. Yet she charges all kinds of money for an astrology reading. Go figure.

And that's where the outright slander & immorality come in, in my opinion. It makes my skin crawl when she says...if Nessus is here, he will abuse you in such & such a way.

Isn't that revolting to people?