posted May 09, 2016 05:23 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by WhyMe:
The father is the Nessus, tightly conjunct his daughter's Mars.

Does this indicate an abusive father ? This man also has a Scorpio sun, opposing the daughter's Mars / his Nessus in Taurus.

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Such scant information cannot imply anything. No houses, no aspect but one in synastry between two bodies/ you cannot interpret ANYTHING like that.The moon/the sun/the ic/the nodes and everything else is not absent from that chart. And if there was meaning the planet would be stronger, maybe she abuses her fathers wealth,lol.
I have never see a one-sided coin. as a consequence I do not believe that only the constantly implied negative connotations of Nessus to be valid.
so yeah what FAITH SAID,
NO

posted May 09, 2016 05:51 PM            

No offense to you, WhyNot...I'm sorry if this is about you, and you were abused.

posted May 11, 2016 03:05 AM            

And, Faith, please don't jump to conclusions about people's postings. Who said anything about accusing anyone of abuse ? Why would you assume that any discussion of Nessus - the abuse asteriod as Ami calls it - is done solely in an attempt to then use the responses to make real life accusations about / against someone ?

Your first post does not serve any useful purpose from a purely astrological perspective and I believe that it triggered the response below yours. I do not view that positively. I started this thread to have a practical discussion on what factors indicate potential abuse in a horoscope. If you are against such discussions due to reasons best known to you ON THE ASTEROID SUB-FORUM, no less, then contact the mods or contact Ami of Christian Psychic (who I believe participates here) and voice your objections over the excellent articles about Nessus and Dejanira that she hosts on her site and how "only abuse indicates an abusive father".

posted May 11, 2016 09:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by WhyMe:
Oh, really ? Then why do sites like My Christian Psychic talk about planets and asteroids with no specific references to houses / signs / aspects between other planets and points in the chart, etc ? I also don't get your LOL in the post - elder financial abuse is NO laughing matter, in my opinion, but apparently you see humor in that statement (I do NOT).

And, Faith, please don't jump to conclusions about people's postings. Who said anything about accusing anyone of abuse ? Why would you assume that any discussion of Nessus - the abuse asteriod as Ami calls it - is done solely in an attempt to then use the responses to make real life accusations about / against someone ?

Your first post does not serve any useful purpose from a purely astrological perspective and I believe that it triggered the response below yours. I do not view that positively. I started this thread to have a practical discussion on what factors indicate potential abuse in a horoscope. If you are against such discussions due to reasons best known to you ON THE ASTEROID SUB-FORUM, no less, then contact the mods or contact Ami of Christian Psychic (who I believe participates here) and voice your objections over the excellent articles about Nessus and Dejanira that she hosts on her site and how "only abuse indicates an abusive father".

And, yes, I am a survivor of violent childhood abuse, so yeah...

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I don't understand your point.

You asked a question.

posted May 11, 2016 11:24 AM            

I am ****** objecting to your insinuation that this thread was created to accuse someone in my real life of abuse *****, and I strongly protest that insinuation. This is a query intending to discuss an "abusive asteroid's" aspects to personal planets, on the asteroid sub-forum in an astrology forum (no less !), and it is my belief that responding with "only abuse indicates an abusive father" and "don't use astrology to make accusations against someone" is not appropriate here.

posted May 11, 2016 11:37 AM            

Furthermore, she even apologized in a previous post. You need to calm down and reassess what has already been said, because it seems to me that you've greatly misinterpreted and over-exaggerated what she's said.

posted May 11, 2016 11:42 AM            

Sorry, WhyNot.

When I said, "I'm sorry if this is about you" ...I thought that the IF would be clear.

IF

posted May 11, 2016 11:51 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Electro DGX:
Faith was not accusing anyone in specific of using astrology as a means to accuse someone of abuse. She was simply stating that it should not be used in such a way, and nowhere in her post does she say that you were accusing someone of abuse. It was more so of a blanket statement.

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And exactly how does the "blanket statement" that "we should not use astrology to accuse someone of abuse in real life" contribute to an astrological discussion of Nessus aspects to personal planets in synastry ? Not to mention that the insinuation is clear as a bell in that utterly uncalled for response, even if you don't opt to see it. This is an astrology forum, asteroid sub-forum, for crying out loud, and "blanket statements" that have nothing to do with astrology don't belong here. That's my opinion.

I also fail to see how ANY of these responses even contribute to an astrological discussion of my query and the thread is merely getting derailed by the back-and-forths and who is right and who is wrong.

posted May 11, 2016 11:56 AM            

That is a fatalistic and, in my opinion, immoral presumption.

If there has been abuse and Nessus is involved THEN take notice.

But don't use Nessus to drive unwarranted suspicion.

That's not a good trend for humanity...and if astrology has something to offer the world, it's sanity. So, I am protective of astrology and taking a sane approach.

Not everyone here agrees with Ami.

Take notice.

quote:

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So, can anyone please change the direction of the discussion back to discussing the astrology of Nessus conjunct Mars and the potential of abuse from these aspects in a synastry chart ? Thanks !

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posted May 11, 2016 12:03 PM            

Also, there is a predictive component to astrology. My query is how to find the POTENTIAL for abuse from charts, not to do a post-mortem, after the fact. Furthermore, it is "easier" to "find abuse" once it has already occurred and recorded. Hindsight is 20/20.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Since you only have one answer in mind that you want to hear from others, why even ask the question?

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posted May 11, 2016 12:10 PM            

Everyone has the potential to abuse others but that doesn't mean they will, regardless of how Nessus shows up in the charts.

I do think using Nessus to make snap judgments and slander people accordingly is immoral.

posted May 11, 2016 12:18 PM            

quote:

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I disagree with your assumption that Nessus can show that potential, and I wanted to make my disagreement known loud and clear, so I
did.

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Again, how do you know what my assumption(s) is / are, or what my motive(s) is / are ? It appears that you are projecting your own beliefs onto me, and attributing motives to a complete stranger (me) merely because of some knee jerk reaction you have to a thread I made because who knows why ?

If you disagree with the idea that Nessus can show potential abuse, that's fine and I am OK with hearing that. I just object to you going over and above that "objection" .

posted May 11, 2016 12:20 PM            

quote:

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Again, how do you know what my assumption(s) is / are, or what my motive(s) is / are ? It appears that you are projecting your own beliefs onto me, and attributing motives to a complete stranger (me) merely because of some knee jerk reaction you have to a thread I made because who knows why ?

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With all due respect this conversation is super, duper twisted and crazy so I am bowing out.

posted May 11, 2016 12:21 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
edit ~

Everyone has the potential to abuse others but that doesn't mean they will, regardless of how Nessus shows up in the charts.

I do think using Nessus to make snap judgments and slander people accordingly is immoral.

This subforum is becoming a Nessus Witch Hunt forum and it disgusts me.

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I am relatively new to the forum, and don't know the history / geography / physics / chemistry of this forum. I am merely here for an objective discussion. If you have issues with how this forum is being run, maybe you should talk to the mods.

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
With all due respect this conversation is super, duper twisted and crazy so I am bowing out.

Far be it from me to advise caution in framing people you don't even know.

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posted May 11, 2016 12:48 PM            

quote:

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Oh, really ? Then why do sites like My Christian Psychic talk about planets and asteroids with no specific references to houses / signs / aspects between other planets and points in the chart, etc ? 

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posted May 11, 2016 12:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
Just because something is published on the Internet doesn't make it infallible. Ami's method is an interesting one and can be instructive but is not the only way of doing things...

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posted May 11, 2016 01:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
Just because something is published on the Internet doesn't make it infallible. Ami's method is an interesting one and can be instructive but is not the only way of doing things...

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Of course !! No method is infalliable but I don't think any method should be shot down, either.

posted May 11, 2016 02:10 PM            

I think Nessus can be worked with creatively, for, as Seimei said, no coin is ever one sided. This, like any planet or asteroid, has dark and light to it. We can learn about abuse and work with it in dynamic ways.

Just like how one person with a hard Saturn-Ceres aspect may die of an eating disorder--perhaps in their chart Saturn is afflicted and there are other indications of obsessive compulsive disorders and self worth issues--another person with a hard Saturn-Ceres aspect could wind up being a diet and wellness coach, an Ayurveda specialist. You get my drift?

With Nessus--one person with hard Nessus-Sun aspect might have an abusive father and go on to be a very difficult and manipulative/cruel presence in their own home as an adult. Another might counsel those who have experienced this kind of abuse, might have a deep understanding of it... the rest of the chart would clearly indicate what is more likely to manifest. There would be little doubt about it actually for a skilled and thorough astrologer. But as Faith said, you can only confirm this kind of thing by directly inquiring with the querant or chart holder--but we can infer a great deal without their confirmation.

But isolating aspects and judging a person based on single aspects alone--especially aspects to minor asteroids--is a very dangerous game. Chart synthesis can't be stressed enough. It's ok to question a method of astrological practise if it isn't in keeping with everything you know about astrology. It's actually the responsible thing to do. Nobody is shooting anything down. We're trying to respectfully answer questions and discuss things. It's important that you take that into consideration as you relate to others here because disrespect and strong language is

A) potentially going to hurt people's feelings and

b) will isolate/alienate you.

posted May 11, 2016 02:26 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by WhyMe:
The father is the Nessus, tightly conjunct his daughter's Mars.

Does this indicate an abusive father ? This man also has a Scorpio sun, opposing the daughter's Mars / his Nessus in Taurus.

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We need to see the whole chart of each individual to answer this question responsibly. It's simply impossible to tell from this information whether abuse is likely to manifest...

But honestly if I'm going to look at the isolated aspect, looking at Nessus conjunct Mars in a synastry, no, that would not be my first thought. He might goad her in ways which really get her goat, she might also do the same right back. Mars is no spring chicken. Think of the energy of the asteroid/planet you're interpreting.

I would take the Mars-Sun opposition more seriously, and again would not think "abuse," but two people who butt heads and are seriously at odds with one another. Of course with family dynamics it's so intense and formative, the interchart aspects tell us of the roots of the natal placements of the child... so we can see that her slow-to-anger (but explosive?), possessive, tactful Mars is greatly influenced by her father's Scorpio Sun. But how? We need to see her chart to say how he had affected her overall. And we need to see his entire chart to know what he's capable of.

posted May 11, 2016 02:34 PM            

"Nessus is not always Mr. Evil, it is only in afflicted charts that the probability of the dark polarity of Nessus manifestation occurs.

When Nessus conjuncts Ascendant, the person is drawn to sexual strength, sexual intensity, virility and goal attainment using Personal Magnetism.

The behavior degenerates into abusive tendencies for the sake of pleasing one's Ego, especially when the chart has exact afflictions to the Moon or Mars from Neptune, Saturn or Pluto.

In some women, this aspect has a disturbing possibility of allowing oneself to be sexually abused. This is when self esteem is ruptured early on in life and the person is programmed snidely to hate herself."

...

"Nessus squares and conjunctions exist in each and every sex predator, sex abuser and sexual serial killer chart that I have researched, and I think I have seen nearly every available chart like that. Arnie was also part of a gang rape in a Gymnasium [He will say it was group sex...loser..]. And he is a anabolic steroid abuser i.e fake muscles... a real man wont touch steroids for building muscle.

Speaking of a real strong man: Paul Anderson. He would have thrown Arnie a few feet with one hand, and he never touched steroids. He preached the New Testament after retirement, broke a brick wall to stop robbers, established youth homes for troubled kids etc. In his chart, there is Pluto square Sun [triggered strength development]. He has a weak Sun opposition Nessus, would have helped him see the nature of seeking selfish pleasure. Oppositions are so much better than squares when it comes to Nessus! To be fair to Paul, he also has Jupiter conjunct ANGEL exact in Pisces  "

posted May 11, 2016 02:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:

But isolating aspects and judging a person based on single aspects alone--especially aspects to minor asteroids--is a very dangerous game. Chart synthesis can't be stressed enough. It's ok to question a method of astrological practise if it isn't in keeping with everything you know about astrology. It's actually the responsible thing to do. Nobody is shooting anything down. We're trying to respectfully answer questions and discuss things. It's important that you take that into consideration as you relate to others here because disrespect and strong language is

A) potentially going to hurt people's feelings and

b) will isolate/alienate you.

Nessus lessons are karmic for the individual who has them. Developing empathy for others is crucial for anybody with a prominent Nessus.[/B]

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I think developing empathy is important for EVERYONE, not just individuals with prominent Nessus.

If the intention of this forum is to respectfully answer questions and discuss things, then the way to go about that would to ask clarifying questions, instead of presuming unknown posters' motives, accusing them of attempting to "frame someone" in real life and harboring "immoral intentions". This is a free message board, so anyone can respond, but kindness goes a long way.

posted May 11, 2016 02:40 PM            

Eric Francis writes that “Nessus is a Centaur planet that assists with identifying and healing of abuse patterns. But on another level, it reveals the complex interplay of causes and effects; of stated motives, underlying motives and of outcomes. While it can address cycles of karma, the most poignant key concept comes from Melanie Reinhart: the buck stops here, indicating that it in some situations it speaks to the conclusion of the karmic cycle involved: the truth revealed, the perpetrator caught, the situation resolved, responsibility taken” (http://www.planetwaves.net/smallworlds/contents/planets/nessus.html; March 1, 2009)."