posted July 22, 2016 08:23 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Elysia:
Omg! Hard to believe I found someone with this aspect. If you don't mind, can you go into details about what it's like to have Saturn conjunct Eros? Also, both retro? I know someone who's got Saturn Rx conjunct Eros Rx natally and I've been wondering about this aspect.

P.S. Voix, congrats on keeping this thread open, and a big thank you for introducing this side of the topic, which generally was hard to discuss here.

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What do you want to know about in particular?

posted July 22, 2016 12:17 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
What do you want to know about in particular?

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Can you feel it on it's own, natally? Or do you feel it only when triggered in synastry? How does it feel, natally -- does Saturn make you reticent to express the qualities of your Eros? How does the Rx factor play into it?

Synastry - what does it evoke in you to have that Saturn Rx - Eros Rx conjunction triggered? Do you like it or not, does it make you uncomfortable ? Or does it actually help "draw out" those latent Rx energies? Also - do the different aspects feel different? Would you prefer a trine to it or is a dynamic conjunction or opposition best suited to channel this energy outward..?

posted July 22, 2016 12:25 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by angel4845:

However i don't see Nessus so much of an ABUSER i see Nessus as someone quite seflish, lustful, strong urges to get things done, manipulative, revengeful, trickster etc..
....

I believe in the power of nessus and dejanira because i have personally experienced relationships and friendships with heavy nessus and dejanira and it can GET NASTY.

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I always found it baffling that she wanted to go back to the husband who so blatantly cheated on her. Anyway, personal choice I guess..

posted July 22, 2016 03:00 PM            

(music) No One Is To Blame (Howard Jones) [4:14] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-A6WH1kQLc

{{{{Voix!..... I am sooooo sorry that happened to you, on such a Sweet Girl on a SPECIAL Sacred Day!!! That was egregious, and a total filthy defilement on his part. He'll get punished. But look at your Beautiful Soul, helping others who have had trauma and abuse infiltrate their lives.
{{GIANT HUGS}} *weeping*}}}}

Bless The Hurt Children.... inside the Adults

posted July 22, 2016 03:30 PM              

so many questions!

First off in my chart it is a special occurrence, as Saturn is the handle of my bucket formation, and the singleton on the Western side of the chart. Which means that every encounter, every relationship, everything is being channelled through that Saturn, and only once you passed the Saturn-gate, you probably get to really enjoy my Sag-planets My very own cerberus.

"Can you feel it on it's own, natally?"
yes, though for a long time I chose to express it by suppression of anything having to do with the 8th house and Eros, or bluntly put: Sex and intimate relationships.
I just cut myself off of this. Never went there, not really.

Which is not a good way to "do your Saturn" though.

Why?
Fear (of doing things wrong, of getting hurt, of being vulnerable I guess), insecurity (of not being worthy enough, of doing things wrong etc.)

Saturn rules my 2nd house. And actually the ruler of my 8th is in 2nd house, and ruler of my 2nd in 8th house.
Security is a MUST for me being able to open up to someone, and with Saturn as the guard, he is strict!

But once this obstacle is being passed, I am ALL IN.
If I let you close, you`ll be close forever.
If I commit to you, the bond is forged in blood, so to speak, cannot ever be broken.
If I make promises, they become oathes and soul-contracts.

There is no easy way around it. Yes, or no. All or nothing. No middle ground.

NOw how does EROS comes into play?
Well I suspect, despite my abstinence and shying away and avoiding and sublimation (ah great word SUBLIMATION), I suspect I actually have a pretty strong erotic nature (Eros in Cancer in 8th house, exact conjunct Vertex and on the far Sun/Moon-mp - how could I not have? though as you can see it is drenched in emotions.
Emotions?? Hu`? There you go my 8th house ruler Moon in Aquarius in 2nd house, just got a bit hectic from the pure mentioning I could have emotional needs. Danger. Alarm. Code Red. Switch on defense mechanism and rationalize it all away. Talk it away if you must!)

"Or do you feel it only when triggered in synastry?"
No, as I said, I feel it.
Having said that though, meeting P was a shock to my system, cause ALL my defense systems failed all at once. And I have STATE OF THE ART DEFENSE MECHANISMS!
In his case it is almost like my soul or whatever does not recognize him as a stranger.
But it was a shock, and I am still wrapping my head around how it could be!

Well in this synastric case his Pluto exactly squares my Vertex-Eros, and his Nessus is on the midpoint of my Saturn-Eros-conjunction and Saturn-Vertex-conjunction.

Plus our Davison Moon exactly falls onto Vertex-Eros.
Composite MOon opposes Vertex-eros, and composite Venus opposes Saturn.

Plus Tr Pluto exact opposes my Saturn with Tr Uranus having squared it last year. And what a ride this has been!

My poor Saturn is really being transformed, I guess.
Of course Tr Uranus also squared my Vertex-Eros recently.

"How does the Rx factor play into it?"
Eros is rx, too, and actually had become stationing some years ago which means that it only moved 2 degrees from its birth position, and is currently on 23 Cancer EXACT on my n DESTINN.
I guess I can`t get around it anylonger. lol

"Eros Rx conjunction triggered? Do you like it or not, does it make you uncomfortable ? Or does it actually help "draw out" those latent Rx energies? "
Both. It makes me uncomfortable (Eros-Vertex in particular squares my Chiron with just a degree, Saturn squares it with 3 degrees) because of the vulnerability. IT`s also like you are being asked to use a muscle you NEVER trained or never used before or neglected for years. Insecurity, Vulnerability is the result, being a little like an infant in this regard, and now imagine how much Saturn likes that!

But, as I often said about P: "He pushes me right out of my comfort zone, and it is scary. But I ALSO thrive on it, cause it is challenging and I know I need to go there!"

That really sums it up for me. Yes, it`s scary, and I`d like to hide in my shell - but then, not really. Not anymore.
Fear of whatever has dictated my actions for too long, I won`t give it that power anymore.

But it`s not easy, it`s quite a path to go, and it includes entering terra incognita and it includes somehow being able to endure the vulnerability, the insecurity, the fear and possibility of doing things the wrong way.

But I sort of realized last year, that I`ll never feel ready. Noone is ever ready. Life is lived by simply living it, with all it entails. I don`t need to have all the answers, I have a right to be confused, not knowing, learning, being scared (as long as fear does not make me hide away), being insecure, being doubting myself and other, and I have the right to feel, whatever it is that I feel, and noone else has the right to judge me for my feelings (though I do have a responsibility for my actions of course).

So that is my current mindset, though of course I still have to transfer it to living it. lol

as for aspects, I like that Saturn trines my Jupiter in Pisces in 3rd house, I can always talk about it. Saturn answers to Jupiter anyway (as Jupiter is exalted in Cancer, sign of my Saturn), so Jupiter has the upper hand in the end.

As for synstric aspects, I don`t know. I guess trines and sextiles are nice, but would never be strong enough to get this stubborn mule moving.

posted July 22, 2016 04:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Elysia:
I always found it baffling that she wanted to go back to the husband who so blatantly cheated on her. Anyway, personal choice I guess..

Do you see Nessus as a 'take what you want' energy in synastry? Like Ceri said.. Nessus *wants*.

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Hahaha! Right???? I found it intriguing how she wanted to go back with him though he was cheating on her.

Yeah I do like ceri said I do see Nessus energy that way. Considering a few examples of people I know personally who have strong Nessus in there chart. What about you? What do you think?

posted July 22, 2016 06:46 PM            

(The singer's outfit and profile at times resemble the glyph for Nessus.)

posted July 23, 2016 12:46 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:

But once this obstacle is being passed, I am ALL IN.
If I let you close, you`ll be close forever.
If I commit to you, the bond is forged in blood, so to speak, cannot ever be broken.
If I make promises, they become oathes and soul-contracts.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Emotions?? Hu`? There you go my 8th house ruler Moon in Aquarius in 2nd house, just got a bit hectic from the pure mentioning I could have emotional needs. Danger. Alarm. Code Red. Switch on defense mechanism and rationalize it all away. Talk it away if you must!)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Having said that though, meeting P was a shock to my system, cause ALL my defense systems failed all at once. And I have STATE OF THE ART DEFENSE MECHANISMS!
..
Plus Tr Pluto exact opposes my Saturn with Tr Uranus having squared it last year. And what a ride this has been!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:

"Eros Rx conjunction triggered? Do you like it or not, does it make you uncomfortable ? Or does it actually help "draw out" those latent Rx energies? "
Both. It makes me uncomfortable (Eros-Vertex in particular squares my Chiron with just a degree, Saturn squares it with 3 degrees) because of the vulnerability. IT`s also like you are being asked to use a muscle you NEVER trained or never used before or neglected for years.
..
But, as I often said about P: "He pushes me right out of my comfort zone, and it is scary. But I ALSO thrive on it, cause it is challenging and I know I need to go there!"
..
As for synstric aspects, I don`t know. I guess trines and sextiles are nice, but would never be strong enough to get this stubborn mule moving.

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posted July 23, 2016 12:48 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by mirage29:

{{{{Voix!..... [b]I am sooooo sorry that happened to you, on such a Sweet Girl on a SPECIAL Sacred Day!!! That was egregious, and a total filthy defilement on his part. He'll get punished. But look at your Beautiful Soul, helping others who have had trauma and abuse infiltrate their lives.
{{GIANT HUGS}} *weeping*}}}}

Bless The Hurt Children.... inside the Adults

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posted July 24, 2016 05:23 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
^ How would you like to begin incorporating it? If you design a study, I will comply.

Wanted to add something...just stating the obvious.

In synastry, astrology is never definitive.

We do not say:

* If his Venus is on your sun, he will love you.
* If his Mars is on your sun, he will pursue you.
* If his Juno is on your sun, he will marry you.

Likewise, we should not say:

* If his Nessus is on your XYZ, he will abuse you.

Responsible astrology recognizes itself as determining probabilities, not certainties.

And while I'm sure that very highly trained astrologers can determine probabilities to the point where they almost certainties, that high range of probability is not possible with synastry.

An astrologer can never be certain what a person will feel towards another person, and how they will treat them.

Their language ought to convey that respect for limitations.

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That may be a tall order, but sure, we can try.

I wonder if we would see Nessus-Hercules-Dejanira appear where there has been a love triangle?
Effectively, this is what the myth implies, I think.

This may be better as another thread, where those who have either been in a love triangle, or know of someone who was/is can share their findings.

Obviously the first definition would need to be who is who.

Hercules: the fiance, long-term partner
Nessus: the "other man"
Dejanira: the coveted female

These definitions are taking liberties though, and very simplistic, but for the purposes of initial study, may be useful.

posted July 24, 2016 05:28 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mirage29:
Nessus 'wants'......

(music) No One Is To Blame (Howard Jones) [4:14] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-A6WH1kQLc

{{{{Voix!..... [b]I am sooooo sorry that happened to you, on such a Sweet Girl on a SPECIAL Sacred Day!!! That was egregious, and a total filthy defilement on his part. He'll get punished. But look at your Beautiful Soul, helping others who have had trauma and abuse infiltrate their lives.
{{GIANT HUGS}} *weeping*}}}}

Bless The Hurt Children.... inside the Adults

((Sorry for the multiple edits... had been having trouble with the musical url choice))[/B]

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Hello Mirage, great to see you here!

Thank you for your kindness. Yes, he had no boundaries, such is the nature of that beast.

But, the outcome was positive. One of the reasons many survivors stay stuck in the pain is the difficulty taking responsibility for something that wasn't their fault.

It is a delicate process, because there is so much self-blame. And it is hard to conceive of a way to take responsibility for your healing, without simply devolving into self-blame for the act.

However that experience I noted, allowed me to taste true aloneness.
- ---- It could have gone one of two ways:

1. I surrender to my victim status with no hope of release

2. I recognise I am the most powerful person in my life. And fight.

I went with 2.
Many times I trifled with my own annihilation, but always came back to 2.

posted July 24, 2016 05:30 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Elysia:
Wait, sorry.. what happened? I think I missed this..
Judging by this message, I can guess, I suppose.. So sorry, Voix..

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posted July 24, 2016 08:53 AM            

I have really enjoyed the candor, professonalism and unbiased tone of this difficult subject

posted July 24, 2016 09:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
in this thread,

I have really enjoyed the candor, professonalism and unbiased tone of this difficult subject

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posted July 29, 2016 09:24 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:

- ---- It could have gone one of two ways:

1. I surrender to my victim status with no hope of release

2. I recognise I am the most powerful person in my life. And fight.

I went with 2.
Many times I trifled with my own annihilation, but always came back to 2.

So I am just fine. Thank you for your compassion.

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posted July 29, 2016 10:11 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
in this thread,

I have really enjoyed the candor, professonalism and unbiased tone of this difficult subject

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posted July 29, 2016 10:21 AM              

"Love how you describe Saturn as the gatekeeper.! Makes your chart come alive to me."
Yes I "found" that term just recently, but it resonates.
Sort of a "selection-tool" to discern what is "worthy" of being granted entrance and what not (it`s sometimes TOO selective though).

"So, though it might be quite as impenetrable as all steely Saturn resolve can make it, the right person coming along and totally shake it."
Yes.

"^ That's what I thought. Double the suppression would need double the shaking-up. "
LOL yes

"The reason I was asking, was that my Venus opposes (and Deja squares) someone's (Saturn-Eros)Rx conjunction, and I was wondering how that feels (to them)"
Interestingly P`s Venus is contraparallel my Saturn and our composite Venus opposes it exactly - I guess it`s tough at times.

".. Do you reckon it'll be kinda sorta like with you, reluctant-but-opening-up?"
It could be, but it depends on how he responds to that. I guess htere is also the possibility of totally rejecting and negating to not be faced with those issues. Or not. It really depends.

In my case Saturn is trine Jupiter and Juno, so I guess there is a general interest in relating *somehow*, and the ruler of 7th house is conjunct my Sun (and parallel Venus), so there IS interest in other people.

posted July 29, 2016 10:27 AM              

And he`s that nice and kind towards me, even with me having been a real "wet blanket" for many years.

He`s married with children by now, so I don´t think it`s anything romantic behind it, he just likes me. That`s all, and by now I´ve come to be able to accept that without feeling guilty or like I have to do something or getting all defensive. Sometimes sympathy just happens I guess. lol

But well to get to this point it took us, well about 7 years or so. lol
now it`s all nicely relaxed. But for a time it was a little weird.

posted July 30, 2016 02:27 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:

Sort of a "selection-tool" to discern what is "worthy" of being granted entrance and what not (it`s sometimes TOO selective though).

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Interestingly P`s Venus is contraparallel my Saturn and our composite Venus opposes it exactly - I guess it`s tough at times.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
It could be, but it depends on how he responds to that. I guess htere is also the possibility of totally rejecting and negating to not be faced with those issues. Or not. It really depends.
In my case Saturn is trine Jupiter and Juno, so I guess there is a general interest in relating *somehow*, and the ruler of 7th house is conjunct my Sun (and parallel Venus), so there IS interest in other people.

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posted July 30, 2016 02:31 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Interestingly I share something similiar with a coworker of mine, our composite has a Sun-Venus conjunction opposing my Saturn. It took YEARS for me to even realize that he likes me.

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