posted November 11, 2012 11:57 AM            

What is it about Sun-Saturn stress aspects (in particular) that resonate such pain?

One of my favorite famous examples of how Sun conjunct Saturn (a very stressful and oppressing aspect like the Square) can manifest is Billy Corgan. Billy is the lead singer of the alt-rock group Smashing Pumpkins, and has the combination in the 7th house, and even worse, Saturn opposite ASC. Billy has attested that he suffered such intense abuse at the hand of his father that he would contemplate suicide and self-injure growing up.

Sun-Saturn usually exemplifies paternal pain. Sun-Saturn squares in the charts of men I've studied seem to go with a feeling like they have the ability and drive to be successful but worry they cannot or should not surpass their father; it is also a potential abuse aspect, or feeling like Dad was always toughest on you in the household.
The conjunction harbors a unique kind of difficulty and fragility beneath a rough surface. Many with this aspect will feel very oppressed and burdened by their father figure in life and this can carry into their views of other higher and/or male authorities. Their fathers likely treated them coldly or austerely at a young age, to say the least, and often this aspect resonates like the square of some degree of child abuse, or emotional abuse.

Although Sun-Saturn can cause shyness, depression, and insecurity about the self and identity (the Sun), Saturn always yields a reward for those who tackle the Mt. Everest in their lives. If one tries to push on, they will find they can combat their anxiety and issues of self-worth, and become successful in what they want to do. Not only that, but they could potentially become a respectable authority figure one day if they can utilize their instilled qualities of maturity. They can come off as wise and trustworthy, a peaceful 'old soul' type who others enjoy being around.

Has anyone dealt with a Sun-Saturn problem in their natal chart? How do you feel it personally manifests for you? Feel free to share.

posted November 11, 2012 12:13 PM            

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posted November 11, 2012 01:03 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Great, great info SS!

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posted November 12, 2012 02:53 PM            

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Originally posted by Randall:
The Sun lights up anything it is associated with, yet Saturn restricts. It is a power struggle and a difficult tug of war.

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Well said, Randall. I never thought about it like this. Sometimes, you just need a new word picture

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posted November 12, 2012 06:59 PM            

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
I have nearly an exact sun-saturn conjunction in 4th house.I did have and still have problems with my father.I viewed my father as a strong person,he wasnt really strict but on many occasions he let me down,he used to demotivate me,I also felt that he used to compete with me.I was excellent in studies but my father used to tell me that it was all due to my teachers’ kindness rather than my hardwork and it eventually took its toll upon me and my grades dropped.He also beat me on numerous occasions for silly reasons.I rarely speak with him nowadays.Does this aspect run in family?my brother also has sun opposite saturn in fourth house.

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I am very sorry to hear this tragic story. Thank you for having the courage to share with us.

It's important to understand with stressed Sun-Saturn that you are not your father or his opinion of you. Yet it seems with many who suffer from Sun-Saturn especially with the very difficult 4th house placement of Saturn that early experiences with your father can permanently mould your psyche into one that is self-deprecating. But it is important to understand that you are capable and competent. Usually with this aspect there is a degree of inferiority, self-doubt and shame about being autonomous as well, which is what you seemed to described somewhat above, like with school. Dad tells us that the world is cutting us a break, which makes us feel like we can't or shouldn't bother trying. But this is completely wrong! The best side of Sun-Saturn is possessing extraordinary self-discpline and motivation to push forward past troubling mountains that come up in life. It's just getting past the evils around us that discourage the brave part of our Sun-Saturn that make it so tough.

But carry on, you are a good soul- I can tell. I feel bad it seems to have run through your family with your sibling, since this does seem to happen quite often with astrology... whole families can share a variation of an aspect [my family's is Moon-Uranus and hard Venus-Pluto which is a ball to say the least!].

How is your brother doing? Did it seem like he received somewhat less of a harsh abuse in life? Or has he had an easier time in personal/professional successes past his childhood development than you have had? Since his Sun would fall in the 10th from the opposition, he naturally has his self-concept elevated above yours... since your Sun is totally anchored down to Saturn in the 4th while his is above it, but still lassoed in. I'm curious to know what his life is like now or what he was treated like.... if you are willing to share.

posted November 12, 2012 06:59 PM            

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Originally posted by Randall:
Superb!

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posted November 12, 2012 07:01 PM            

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Originally posted by peregrine:
Absentee for me. Sun opposite Saturn.

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So, your father was totally absent since childhood...? I am sorry to hear that. [hugs] Although I don't have this aspect, my father faded in and out of my life since birth, but he's trying to be more of a permanent presence. But with Neptune ruling my IC with the 29th degree there's usually something blocking us from getting close.... or a fog surrounding his whereabouts.

I know Sun-Saturn can be tough and can very often represent abandonment from not only the father either. In my Billy Corgan example, it was his mother who actually abandoned him by close to age 5. So know you aren't alone with this.

posted November 18, 2012 04:02 AM              

I remember being 7 and him pulling out a knife to try to kill my biological father. My mother had to interfere before he could get to my dad. This happened on more than one occasion. He was very abusive with everyone. There was always an altercation, or a physical fight -- you never really knew when he would blow up. My father of course moved out that same year (when I was 7). My mother and dad separated, mainly because my dad wasn't a good husband to my mother anyway.

With me it was mainly emotional abuse, putting me down, saying mean things to me, etc. At the age of 15 he actually beat me for the first time and I ran away. This experience has left me traumatized and I guess this is when my depression started developing.

My father was always (still is) cold with me. He never truly felt like a father I could hug or say "I love you" to. He never deliberately hurt me, or insult me though. He's just never really there as a father figure for me.

posted November 27, 2012 06:58 AM            

I have a loose Sun/Saturn square.
My father was always coming in and going out of the family, and then when I was 9 he left for good. I've lost contact with him from that point. I definitely have "daddy" issues, and it feels awful knowing that your own father doesn't care about you. I do struggle with low self-esteem, apathy and depression.. I'm not ambitious and not a hard worker, I'm easily demotivated. So obviously I have tons of things to work on before I can channel that energy positively.

posted November 27, 2012 07:49 AM            

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posted November 27, 2012 08:54 AM            

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posted November 28, 2012 11:06 AM            

I realised all this stuff quite late, as I'm now 21, but my parents divorced since I was a baby so I never really knew his true colours until recently that I lived with him for 4 years.

Personaly I'm a person with strong will, ambition and the belief that everything can be achieved if you work hard. I hate the way my father always wines,and never tries or tried about everything. And I hate how he always lies even about the simplest thing. I've also examined how he acts in his personal relationships, and he's behaviour is so ****** . He's sneaky and a liar and If you met him right now you'd probably think I'm crazy or lying because he's so disgustingly king when it comes to strangers, coming off as a nice person.

But he really isn't. I'm glad I will not be having any contact with him from now on. I dont want any connection with him and his miserable manners and cunning lies.

So sorry this post got so long, but I'm so glad I could get all this off my chest.

Other than my relationship with my father, I think I like my Sun conjunct Saturn.

Saturn and Sun are also conjunct to my N.Node, and I think this is what keeps me going, gives me strength and discipline. It's probably the wind under my wings, that keeps me strong, even after many troubles. So yeah, I guess I like this conjunction

posted December 01, 2012 03:38 PM            

My Dad was quite emotionally and verbally abusive, nothing I ever did was good enough, and he's a raging alcoholic.

posted December 01, 2012 05:55 PM            

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Originally posted by mockingbird:
I have a tight Saturn/Sun/Neptune t-square.

My Dad was quite emotionally and verbally abusive, nothing I ever did was good enough, and he's a raging alcoholic.

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I'm sorry you had this difficult situation.

posted December 01, 2012 05:55 PM            

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Originally posted by mockingbird:
Interestingly, my husband has a tight Sun/Saturn sextile, and his father was extremely abusive when he was young (like "throw your child against a wall so hard that he blacks out" abusive) and absent in his late childhood and teen years.

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posted December 01, 2012 05:56 PM            

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Originally posted by AshSkye:
I have a Quintile between the two, my father rejected me when I was 10 and really, I used that experience to help others and to guide them as most of the bad bits in my childhood were to do with them.
I suppose this horrible relationship with my father produced my best talent which is the Quintile!

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I'm very sorry about the rejection. I feel your pain... I have also felt rejection from my own father and other family members over the years. I understand how bad it feels.