posted January 24, 2014 01:42 PM            

First of all, let me define a Chiron relationship. One person’s Chiron must conjunct a PERSONAL planet or angle in the other person’s charts. Chiron may conjunct asteroids, too.In these cases, it would be the bad asteroids. By bad, I mean asteroids like Sedna( severe betrayal by men), Medusa( destruction by women), Dejanira( the victim) and Nessus( the abuser) I use the conjunction because it is the strongest aspect. In my research, I do not look at other aspects with Chiron. It is not because they do not count, just that the conjunction trumps all other aspects in intensity.

So, the Chiron relationship could be all manner of aspects. It could be Sun/Chiron, Moon/Chiron, Mercury/Chiron/ Mars/Chiron, Saturn/Chiron,Venus/Chiron, Ascendent/Chiron. MC/Chiron, IC/Chiron, DSC/Chiron or various asteroids conjunct Chiron. The conjunction must be close. It must be 2-3 degrees, tops, in my experience.

Now that we have defined a Chiron relationship, let me share about some of mine, how they started, progressed and failed. One of my most recent ones was with a woman. It got close fast. It felt the way best friends feel, warm and safe. It started going bad when I had a very different philosophy on life. She did not agree. I stood firm. It got tense. She acted poorly to me. I stood up. However, in this case, we had an unusual outcome in that we were able to make a peace, not a friendship, but a peace. Once Chiron relationships break, they never go back to what they were. That is another defining trait.

However, when I looked more closely, I saw that she was reacting from pain of a mother whom she saw as rigid in the same belief system I had. *I* was reacting from not being allowed to have a voice as a child. She was saying”Don’t be rigid like my mother”. I was saying, “I WILL have my voice and you are not going to stop me” Hence, the core pain of each person played out. This is another trait of the Chiron relationship i.e the core pain will play out. Again, no one is the good one and no one is the bad one.

I will describe another recent Chiron relationship. This was Saturn/Chiron. I was the Saturn. This relationship got close very quickly. I felt as if we would be best friends forever. He did, too. I helped him when he was in a lot of pain. He came to some profound spiritual insights. It was very exhausting for me as I gave a great deal of my primal energy. However, I was very happy.

The problem arose when he said that maybe he did NOT believe what he had accepted. I said that was fine but I did not want to hear about it. He said that he could say what he wanted. I said that I had a boundary and did not want to discuss this ONE point. He said that he did not want to talk to me anymore.

Again, no one is right and no one is wrong. It is a situation where pain comes out and controls the outcome. His pain was that he could not say what he wanted. My pain was that I had a mother who I kept trying to show various truths.. She would seem to see it and then after all my efforts would act like she saw nothing.

Please, don’t get lost in the details of this, look at the larger point of pain intersecting. I give the details, just to make it clearer about how pain intersects.

If I go back to my Venus/Chiron relationship that failed, I have some new insights. I was the Venus. She was the Chiron. I am not sure who comes to whom for healing, the planet person or the Chiron person. The planet person may be the one who learns the lessons more. At any rate, in this relationship, we got close fast. We felt like we were best friends. We shared all sorts of intimate details, some we never shared with others. I thought she dissed me but in retrospect, she didn’t. She needed space. She thought I violated her space but I did not.

She has Chiron in the 12th. She has hidden pain. I was bringing up her hidden pain. I don’t think she knew what exactly was happening. The person with Chiron in the 12th cannot put his finger on his pain as can the people with Chiron in the other houses. Hence, I brought out something in her and she exploded. The funny thing was that the incident was very, very small. This is classic for Chiron blow ups, too.

I hope you have learned something of value from this article. Please, share your experiences, Friends!

Ronnie Valentine, a wonderful Astrologer said these kind words to me. I put them up here with gratitude and humility( and because I need a little TLC )

Chiron brings madness to earth in a tantalizing way. I like how you translate it to relationships…You carry on tantalizing us all!

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posted January 25, 2014 08:08 AM            

Thank you for this thread and for sharing your personal experiences as illustrations.

I am coming out of a Chiron relationship. His Chiron is conjunct my DSC by 1°. Interestingly, his Chiron is retrograde and conjunct his IC within 2°, as well as his Moon. My DSC and his IC are conjunct. See below:

Him:
Moon: 17°13'
Chiron: 14°39' R in Aqua
IC: 12°46'

My DSC 13°49'

I am not sure what a retrograde Chiron or Chiron on my DSC in synastry means, but it being conjunct his IC indicates where his pain might lie - in his childhood (am I right?). He lost his father in early teens which left his mother (Moon ?) devastated and unable to fend for her young family. As he was the oldest child, one can imagine how this may have made him feel powerless and guilty. This, I think, makes him wary of close relationships and the spectre of failing.

posted January 25, 2014 01:26 PM            

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posted January 25, 2014 05:27 PM            

That is EXACTLY what I mean. My last Chiron relationship that ended was because I simply asked for a boundary. It was really nothing. I did not want to discuss one small thing, in my mind.

He said that his family always shut him up and it ended.

I have tried to get him back, so to speak. It was a platonic friend.

Once it ends, it never seems to come back close. It may come back wary but it is sad because of what you once had.

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posted January 25, 2014 05:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Well, if I may, I would call it "little" that you asked a question and the relationship ended.

That is EXACTLY what I mean. My last Chiron relationship that ended was because I simply asked for a boundary. It was really nothing. I did not want to discuss one small thing, in my mind.

He said that his family always shut him up and it ended.

I have tried to get him back, so to speak. It was a platonic friend.

Once it ends, it never seems to come back close. It may come back wary but it is sad because of what you once had.

---

There are some differences here - he wants us to continue as if nothing had happened. But for me the relationship has lost its gloss. This could be because I had idealised him too much in the first instance. Him failing to respond to my urgent concerns, revealed a person who was reluctant to take emotional responsibility, amongst other things (I am sure he didn't see it that way). But, yes, in the scheme of things and causes for break ups, it doesn't sound like much.

Edit: I can see how his wounds caused him to avoid the challenge. But these events in particular (there were other things too), made me reflect on what was acceptable and important for me - so his pain became a catalyst for my growth. I hope I'm interpreting this correctly!

posted January 26, 2014 07:04 AM            

This is what seems to happen in Chiron relationships. Pain drew you together and you felt like you had a soul who understood.

However, PAIN got to a critical mass and the relationship froze.

Prolly, you had this as a core issue and he did, too. He may be super afraid of emotions and you want assurance and so you are stuck but the root was the pain.

I saw this in the last failure of my platonic friend.

No one is right and no one is wrong here, either. There is no good guy and no bad guy.

I will look at the Chiron/DSC now.

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posted January 26, 2014 07:07 AM            

He brings pain to you in the area of your chart which represents partners. This one aspect will define the relationship, in a sense, or determine it, is a better way of saying it.

Right from the beginning, I tell my Chiron relationships that we have one. Then, when they break up, maybe the people remember.

I don't know but one Chiron relationship can last but it hurts really badly. That is Chiron conj the NN.

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posted January 26, 2014 07:21 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
His Chiron conj your DSC is bound to fail, in my HUMBLE opinion.

He brings pain to you in the area of your chart which represents partners. This one aspect will define the relationship, in a sense, or determine it, is a better way of saying it.

---

Yes, certainly right there. The negative aspects gradually took over and became dominant. To a critical mass, as you said. But breaking up too has been painful to say the least. Hopefully, that will be resolved sooner than later.

It was helpful for you to highlight that no one is to blame. I ought to be grateful in fact, because his problems presented me with the challenge I needed.

posted January 26, 2014 10:39 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Astro keen:
Hi Ami Anne,

Thank you for this very helpful thread and for sharing your personal experiences as illustrations.

I am coming out of a Chiron relationship. His Chiron is conjunct my DSC by 1°. Interestingly, his Chiron is retrograde and conjunct his IC within 2°, as well as his Moon. My DSC and his IC are conjunct. See below:

Him:
Moon: 17°13'
Chiron: 14°39' R in Aqua
IC: 12°46'

My DSC 13°49'

I am not sure what a retrograde Chiron or Chiron on my DSC in synastry means, but it being conjunct his IC indicates where his pain might lie - in his childhood (am I right?). He lost his father in early teens which left his mother (Moon ?) devastated and unable to fend for her young family. As he was the oldest child, one can imagine how this may have made him feel powerless and guilty. This, I think, makes him wary of close relationships and the spectre of failing.

However, I think I have gained more from our relationship. I have had to come to terms with my fears and find a sense of stability. He has acted as a catalyst, so to speak.

---

I think you are close to it.

Chiron on your DSC means he brings pain and healing to your relationship. In his natal, his wounds are close to his soul (IC) from childhood. In retrograde, his wounds aren't the same as those of us who have it in direct. I can't speak for him but it's just very internalized and maybe he doesn't even know about his wounds. But I would think it takes inflicting pain on others for him to feel his pain/wounds.

Like you said , his pain acts as a catalyst to your understanding towards your relationships since that's what Chiron does. It will also make him gradually realize of his wounds. But it is a very slow process and can take time for him to realise his problems.

I wouldn't write it off as a doomed relationship. We all need to be healed in some form. If he's willing to face his pain, the relationship can be tranformational in his life.

posted January 26, 2014 11:39 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by summerlite:

Chiron on your DSC means he brings pain and healing to your relationship. In his natal, his wounds are close to his soul (IC) from childhood. In retrograde, his wounds aren't the same as those of us who have it in direct. I can't speak for him but it's just very internalized and maybe he doesn't even know about his wounds. But I would think it takes inflicting pain on others for him to feel his pain/wounds.

Like you said , his pain acts as a catalyst to your understanding towards your relationships since that's what Chiron does. It will also make him gradually realize of his wounds. But it is a very slow process and can take time for him to realise his problems.

I wouldn't write it off as a doomed relationship. We all need to be healed in some form. If he's willing to face his pain, the relationship can be tranformational in his life.

---

posted January 26, 2014 01:30 PM            

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posted January 26, 2014 03:17 PM            

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posted January 27, 2014 10:25 AM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by Astro keen:
Summerlite, you have made some very insightful statements, such as "it takes inflicting pain on others for him to feel his pain/wounds" or about the relationship having the potential to be transformative for him. I am wondering how you managed to draw such conclusions - are you psychic or is it much practice with astrology that makes you wise?

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posted February 14, 2014 02:24 PM            

If in synastry, one has Chiron conjunct the other's Moon and the other's Chiron conjunct one's Ascendant but the orbs of both aspects are wide (4 degrees), would you still think it's a Chiron relationship?

posted February 19, 2014 03:26 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
If I go back to my Venus/Chiron relationship that failed, I have some new insights. I was the Venus. She was the Chiron. I am not sure who comes to whom for healing, the planet person or the Chiron person. The planet person may be the one who learns the lessons more.

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posted March 02, 2014 07:27 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Tulipe:
Ami Anne,

If in synastry, one has Chiron conjunct the other's Moon and the other's Chiron conjunct one's Ascendant but the orbs of both aspects are wide (4 degrees), would you still think it's a Chiron relationship?

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Yes, Chiron is a planet not an asteroid so 4 degrees is valid but it would be more ambient than closer degrees but still, with the Moon, in particular, it would be a deep connection. The depth of the Chiron relationship is what both attracts and repels imo

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posted March 02, 2014 07:29 AM            

That story makes sense. Thanks for sharing it.

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posted March 03, 2014 04:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by CappyLove:
This is an interesting topic! What do u make of chiron conj chiron. His falls into my IC and mine falls int his 9th house in leo??

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If you are born close in time, it will be that way for 2 years, I think. Are you?

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posted May 03, 2014 03:16 PM            

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posted May 18, 2014 01:21 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by CappyLove:
This is an interesting topic! What do u make of chiron conj chiron. His falls into my IC and mine falls int his 9th house in leo??

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Excellent question CappyLove - one I've been trying to explore myself, to little avail. AmiAnne, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "...it will be that way for 2 years..."? His Chiron(r) in 6th conjuncts my Chiron in 8th at zero degrees, in Aries. There's 5 months' difference in our ages.

posted May 18, 2014 07:49 AM            

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