posted December 03, 2009 04:39 AM            

I think any planets conjuncting the IC or MC and any planets within the 4th and 10th houses would have a lot to say on the native's relationship to trust, but I want to focus in this thread on the IC/MC Axis itself, most especially the MC.

I view the IC as a symbolic description of a person's most deeply personal sense of relationship to others; a person's most immediate and natural emotional response to others.

I view the MC as a description of a person's least-personal sense of relationship to others; the way they are least likely to be toward someone they allow close to them; the way the person is most likely to regard someone or something they feel objective, or non-personal, about.

In my view, the IC describes a quality about ourselves and the way we function that we are the most personally attached to, whereas the MC describes a quality about ourselves and the way we function that we are the least attached to. The MC is said to speak of talents that can be of use in career, and anyone knows we're most likely to excel without fuss at things we are able to do yet feel no fretful personal attachment over; the MC is very Zen, perhaps one could say. I think the IC represents a deeper gift, but we fret about it, making it more difficult to deliver compared to our abilities that come with the detached cool of the MC.

I view the MC and 10th house as representative of the world, and to me the term "world" means what human beings are doing with themselves and each other in how they are choosing to use their time on the earth.

In our "world" human beings chose to make and choose to make and maintain civilizations and societies of the kind that presently occupy the earth. This world is generally impersonal in nature. Perhaps it should be, with Capricorn and Saturn as the natural rulers of the 10th, perhaps it needs to be, and perhaps it is more so than it needs to be. In any case, in impersonal social environments, detachment, and what can be utilized and produced through detachment, is what is most consistently considered to be of value. In such a world then most often when people look upon one another at first glance they are most likely to notice what is most utilizable about the person for the sake of a detached activity they'd hope would be productive to some end. These are reasons for my theory that in the most impersonal of circumstances people are most likely to identify one another with qualities described by their MC.

The nature of the IC and of the MC as I've described them here in this post certainly do seem to be accurate of my own experience of myself and my interaction with the world, but I want to see if anyone else notices what I have described in their own experience and their own sense of their IC and MC.

Here are some questions I've thought of to help the discussion. Feel free to answer all or any of them. I will answer later in the thread, I'm more interested in others' experiences with regard to this theory.

1. What is the sign of your MC?

2. Do you notice talents, skills, or abilities that you have had most of your life that you have generally always felt detached about and are easy for you to deliver to others and correlate with the qualities of the sign of your MC?

3. Do you notice talents, skills, or abilities that you have had most of your life that you have generally always fretted about and that you experience as difficult to deliver to others and correlate with the qualities of the sign of your IC?

4. Does it seem to you that people who do not know you or do not know you very well most often perceive you in some way that matches the sign of your MC?

5. When you think of people's tendency to thoughtlessly project basic elements of human experience onto those around them, when you think of what you have most often been wrongly blamed for by others in general, is there an obvious correlation with the sign of your MC?

6. When someone who is very close to you, a best friend, or almost-best friend, a lover, a spouse, is frequently and for long periods of time deeply desirous of, intently attached to or expecting of, receiving from you things that match the qualities of your MC, does it feel impersonal and offend you, hurt your feelings, especially make you feel like they are "using" you, like they don't know you at all and don't care to, like they do not have your best interests at heart, like you should not trust them?

7. In your free time, are you easily turned-off by or become quickly disinterested in new people and situations that show a preferential interest in or response to your MC qualities?

After some time, are those the situations in which you are most likely to feel 'God, they are shallow; God, this is boring; God, they are soo stupid and greedy! they don't care about anything!; God, this scene/this situation is just "not me"?

8. Have the people that have been most trusted, beloved, and personally valued by you been those who somehow were almost always able to recognize you through enjoying and sharing consistently in a kind of interaction with you that matches the qualities of the sign of your IC?

9. If you were in a situation where you had no choice but to surrender a talent, ability, or quality about yourself that you can readily associate with a notion of being of your MC, and in exchange add a talent, ability, or quality to yourself that could be symbolized by the sign of your IC, what would you surrender? and what would you want in exchange?

10. If, contrary, you had to surrender a talent, ability, or quality of your IC in exchange for the addition of a talent, ability, or quality to your MC, what would you surrender? what would you gain?

posted January 04, 2010 09:49 PM            

I think it may be difficult for me to describe the MC as detached because my Sun and Venus are both conjunct my MC, each by one degree on either side. Therefore, my heart and true self are tied to my MC.

I've got: Venus 0' Virgo, MC 1' Virgo, Sun 2' Virgo. Squared Jupiter 2' Sagittarius, Chiron 2' Gemini; to a lesser extent Uranus 5' Sagittarius. Sextile Saturn 0' Scorpio; to a lesser extent Pluto 27' Libra.

1. What is the sign of your MC?
Virgo

2. 2. Do you notice talents, skills, or abilities that you have had most of your life that you have generally always felt detached about and are easy for you to deliver to others and correlate with the qualities of the sign of your MC?

Not specifically. I do have talents and skills that come easily and naturally to me, but I don't feel detached from them. With regards to my Sun/Venus conjuncted MC the talents I have that come naturally are a natural openness to others and an easy rapport with them. I am a counselor by trade. I work hard and notice and take care of the little things that are important, which I guess goes along with Virgo. I've always been very bright and quick and used to make straight As when I was a kid. Book knowledge comes easily to me.

3. Do you notice talents, skills, or abilities that you have had most of your life that you have generally always fretted about and that you experience as difficult to deliver to others and correlate with the qualities of the sign of your IC?

Quite honestly no. If an ability comes naturally to me, I don't usually have a reason to fret about it. Maybe I am misunderstanding this question?

Well... I take that back. I am slightly psychically intuitive, and I have been since I was a child. It is something that used to disturb me, and though I now accept it, I still hide it from others except for those closest to me. I guess that might follow with a Pisces IC.

4. Does it seem to you that people who do not know you or do not know you very well most often perceive you in some way that matches the sign of your MC?

Not really. If I am misperceived in some way, it is usually in a way that is very un-virgoan. I am perceived as the "bad girl" or the one who is trying to cause trouble by speaking out against an injustice. Usually I don't feel like I am trying to cause harm, I am simply trying to speak up for what is a logical solution to a problem that is otherwise dominated by overly emotional people. Well, maybe that is Virgoan. I will also speak out against people who are being unfair towards myself or others without considering the circumstances. Might have to do with Venus.

5. When you think of people's tendency to thoughtlessly project basic elements of human experience onto those around them, when you think of what you have most often been wrongly blamed for by others in general, is there an obvious correlation with the sign of your MC?

Maybe? Sometimes I am accused at work of not getting my work done, but the only time I DON'T get my work done on time is when I'm completely overloaded and my morale is very low (like it is now). In my life outside of work people have always projected onto me that I am competitive when really I just like to do a good job. It has nothing to do with competing against other people. I figure this has more to do with my Aries Moon though than my Virgo MC. My Sun being on the MC might have something to do with it too.

6. When someone who is very close to you, a best friend, or almost-best friend, a lover, a spouse, is frequently and for long periods of time deeply desirous of, intently attached to or expecting of, receiving from you things that match the qualities of your MC, does it feel impersonal and offend you, hurt your feelings, especially make you feel like they are "using" you, like they don't know you at all and don't care to, like they do not have your best interests at heart, like you should not trust them?

Sometimes yes. Sometimes I feel like I attract friends and lovers who are emotionally unstable and who need emotional "fixing" in some way. The truth is, I don't want to have to "fix" the people in my life. I counsel people in my career. Unfortunately, because I am so honest and open to all people, I naturally attract those who need healing the most. The problem with this too is that sometimes I really genuinely feel like I am counseling them because they want to vent all of their problems to me, but then when I go to vent about what's going on in my own life, they cut me off or turn the conversation back to them. It's very one-sided.

7. In your free time, are you easily turned-off by or become quickly disinterested in new people and situations that show a preferential interest in or response to your MC qualities?

Even up until a few years ago, the answer would have been no, but because I've recently realized that I've had friends who DO use me as their sounding board and not much else, I've stopped catering to people who I feel only want a shoulder to cry on and don't want to be mutually supportive to me and my needs.

8. Have the people that have been most trusted, beloved, and personally valued by you been those who somehow were almost always able to recognize you through enjoying and sharing consistently in a kind of interaction with you that matches the qualities of the sign of your IC?

Ummm... Not really. If anything, I feel most valued by people that are able to be carefree and fun (more like all of my fire sign planets). I enjoy people who are more spiritual, metaphysical, emotional, artistic, etc, but I don't hang out with or understand them all that much.

9. If you were in a situation where you had no choice but to surrender a talent, ability, or quality about yourself that you can readily associate with a notion of being of your MC, and in exchange add a talent, ability, or quality to yourself that could be symbolized by the sign of your IC, what would you surrender? and what would you want in exchange?

I would want to surrender attention to detail and exchange it with creative knowing.

10. If, contrary, you had to surrender a talent, ability, or quality of your IC in exchange for the addition of a talent, ability, or quality to your MC, what would you surrender? what would you gain?