posted April 10, 2014 05:11 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Wouldn't it be taken too far? I did one draco persona and now I don't know what to do with it.

---

Draconic persona charts are the same as the tropical, the positions don't change.

posted April 10, 2014 05:15 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by page one:
Draconic persona charts are the same as the tropical, the positions don't change.

---

The position doesn't change because astro.com doesn't draw both the persona and draconic signs. To draw the draco persona chart you have to store the persona chart data (the date is in red above the chart), this way you consider it a real "birth day" and then draw the draconic chart of it.

posted April 10, 2014 05:23 PM            

If anybody's bored you can practise on my draco Venus persona

posted April 11, 2014 12:33 AM            

Anyway; I feel like I understand the general point of persona charts, and I can see how it would be useful in synastry. But, I still find it confusing to read.

Moon personal for example
what is the moon ascendant? How we verbally express our emotions?
The moon sun? Which is of course the natal moon. How would this be different than moon ascendant?
The moon's moon? Even deeper emotions?
Venus and mars? The feminine and masculine side of our emotions?
uranus? Uncontrollable emotions?
Saturn? Restrained hidden emotions?
Neptune? Lies about our feelings?
Pluto? Motivation of expression?

I really dont know. Can anyone clarify or care to agree/disagree with my guesses?

The whole sun and sub-planet really throws me neptune person sun and neptune persona neptune for instance?

posted April 11, 2014 07:31 AM            

But I think the basic principles are the same as with interpreting a natal solar chart.

Each Persona is that specific archetype within ourselves:

1. Ascendant Persona: giving you more clues about your ASC (The ASC in a natal chart is a “persona” in itself, the mask, the way we project to others, first impression, our natural immediate reaction, the physical and overall appearance). The Ascendant ‘s P ASC and other overall aspects and houses would give additional clues about the physical appearance. For example, a woman with ASC in Capricorn in the solar chart with ASC in Aries in the Ascendant’s P: Cap physical traits, but also athletic, energetic, with direct movements and possibly Aries features. Going after things in an Aries manner.

2. Midheaven Persona: will tell you a lot about your most suitable career and vocation, an excellent tool for career predictions.

3. NN Persona: your destiny, your direction in life

4. Moon Persona: your emotional personality/in terms of synastry: the Anima of the man

5. Venus Persona: our “love” personality, how we behave in love, tastes/in terms of synastry: woman’s femininity, man’s “type”. A Venus P ASC should give clues about the “type” of beauty that person has. For example, a man with a Cap ASC in the solar chart, Venus AC in Libra: saturnian in appearance, but also beautiful and graceful, more airy than a normal Cap, more charming than the usual Cap etc.

6. Mars Persona: sexuality, drive, physical body, assertion. In terms of synastry, clues about a woman’s “type”.

7. Mercury Persona: “mental” personality, general mobility, communication, expressiveness.

For the rest, I think it depends a lot on the position occupied by that planet in the natal chart. For example, someone with Sun conjunct Neptune in the solar chart would look at his Neptune Persona to understand his overall personality, the type of Neptune associated with his solar personality. He would be a dreamer, an artist, a magician or a crook: but what kind of dreamer, artist, magician, crook? This will be shown by his Neptune Persona
Someone with Pluto on the ASC ; his Pluto Persona would define his general personality, he is Plutonian for sure, in looks and behavior, but the way he manifests “his” Pluto will be shown by his Pluto P chart.

How to interpret a Persona chart?
1. The Ascendant: first impression about that personality, the way we tend to express it spontaneously and in a natural way, how we appear to others (for example, emotionally, for a Moon chart).

2. The Descendant: what type of partner we are related to that specific archetype, how we relate emotionally (Moon), mentally (Mercury), in love (Venus) etc. What partner we prefer in that specific interaction.

3. The Midheaven: the best expression of that archetype, what we can achieve when we fully express that archetype, the “vocation” and “final accomplishment” of that archetype within ourselves. The “fate” of that planetary energy. How important is that archetype for us. Here we have clues about the importance of that planetary energy within ourselves, on the MC/IC axis. How we can “blossom”, how we are when we “blossom”, in terms of that archetype. From my personal comparisons, I’ve noticed when a planet/archetype is important for that person, there are significant planets/asteroids in the 4th house or on IC. That planetary energy is a “matter of the heart” for that person, touches his/her core.

4. NN/SN: what we already master, related to that archetype, and what need to develop within ourselves in order to fully express that planet. Also, clues about important events related to that planet, just like Vx/Avx axis.

And then we proceed with our analysis looking at houses, rulers of houses and aspects to describe that planetary personality, just like we do it with a solar chart. The Sun is already that planet, so its house and sign in the Persona chart is paramount in understanding the planetary personality. Looking at houses, we can see how the planetary energy manifests itself in various areas of life. For example, in a Moon chart, you can see what area of life affects that person on a deep emotional level. How he expresses his emotions (1st), what values he holds dear, how stable his emotions are (2nd), how he communicates his emotions, how connected they are with his intellect (3rd), general strong emotionality (4th), how emotional he is in love, creation, children, play etc. (5th), every day life and health (6th) –emotional problems could be seen here if they are, how he expresses emotions in partnership/the type of emotional partner preferred (7th), how he expresses emotions sexually, transformation, secrets (8th) an so on.

posted April 11, 2014 08:13 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by eyes_like_pisces:
I scrolled through the thread hoping to find some answers to old questions. I hope im not repeating anything but didn't see it.

Anyway; I feel like I understand the general point of persona charts, and I can see how it would be useful in synastry. But, I still find it confusing to read.

Moon personal for example
what is the moon ascendant? How we verbally express our emotions?
The moon sun? Which is of course the natal moon. How would this be different than moon ascendant?
The moon's moon? Even deeper emotions?
Venus and mars? The feminine and masculine side of our emotions?
uranus? Uncontrollable emotions?
Saturn? Restrained hidden emotions?
Neptune? Lies about our feelings?
Pluto? Motivation of expression?

I really dont know. Can anyone clarify or care to agree/disagree with my guesses?

The whole sun and sub-planet really throws me neptune person sun and neptune persona neptune for instance?

What about sign and house interpration; valid?

---

I think that planet gives you more clues about that specific persona (for example the Moon in a Moon Persona chart). I also think we should interpret the planets in a Persona chart as "energies" related to that specific Persona (in terms of sign, house, aspect).

For example Humphrey Bogart Moon Persona chart. In solar, Capricorn Sun, Taurus ASC, 8th house person, Moon in Libra/6th.

Moon Persona:
ASC in Cancer: perceived as emotional, emotionally shy, a private personality. Ruler of ASC, the Moon, in 7th house: open with intimate friends, shows his emotional nature in private, an emotional partner. Moon in Aquarius 7th opposite Mars in 1st house Leo: hot temper, strong convictions, likes intellectual debates. A lion in a lamb's skin, emotionally. Also, friendships very important, emotionally connected to his friends.
Mars square Mercury in 4th Libra: heated by debates, sharp tongue, likes deep conversations, puts his heart to them, again strong convictions (Mercury trine Pluto).

Sun (his emotional personality) conjunct Lilith on IC: very emotional man, passionate, secretive, with a dark twist. Dark humor, perhaps. Private person. But overall strong (Sun trine Moon and Pluto) in air signs. Intellect and emotions nicely combined.

Of course, the first thing we look at it's actually the Kite: Air Kite with Fire Apex in Uranus conjunct Jupiter in 5th, opposite Pluto. Here we can see his need to express emotionally in a creative manner, here we can see why he was an actor.

MC in Aries, ruler in 1st house Leo: strong need to express emotionally, on the 1st/7th axis, despite his shyness and private nature.

posted April 11, 2014 09:36 AM            

quote:

---

For the rest, I think it depends a lot on the position occupied by that planet in the natal chart. For example, someone with Sun conjunct Neptune in the solar chart would look at his Neptune Persona to understand his overall personality, the type of Neptune associated with his solar personality. He would be a dreamer, an artist, a magician or a crook: but what kind of dreamer, artist, magician, crook? This will be shown by his Neptune Persona

---

Cool example. My Neptune seems to be the artist-dreamer-weirdo type. In the persona chart: Sun-Neptune-Uranus-NN in the 8th. Moon (Capricorn too but the 9th) conjunct Neptune, the dispositor on the MC exact and conjunct my natal Venus. Large 6th and 12th house. Venus (on my natal IC), Pluto and Vertex in the 6th. Jupiter, the dispositor of Venus in the 5th house together with Vesta, Midas, Musa and Psyche.

posted April 11, 2014 10:41 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by I'm so cappy:
Thanks, but I was curious what would be the best job for me according to this chart. Could a persona chart for my Asc&MC ruler shed some light on this matter too?

---

posted April 11, 2014 08:26 PM            

i've been looking at mine and I honestly am having a really hard time reading it. My asc in the ASC Persona chart is the same as my sister though.. and the chart ruler is the conjunct my natal asc.

posted April 12, 2014 07:32 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ueharaa:
I see your point but still I personally don't believe we can describe someone's physical appearance in detail through astrology. There are some common traits and "look" to certain signs but I still believe most of it comes from genetics.

i've been looking at mine and I honestly am having a really hard time reading it. My asc in the ASC Persona chart is the same as my sister though.. and the chart ruler is the conjunct my natal asc.

I don't know how to interpret all ofthis though. I can grasp every other persona chart but these. I don't know I feel like the natal angles are your antenna to the world and you're born with them. It's the most precise information since angles are fastest moving points in a chart. They're very personal. I don't understand how you'd have to wait for the sun to transit this point for your angles to manifest (which is the idea behind persona charts). I believe they manifest as soon as you're born.

---

I don't necessarily agree with Orban and Zinnel regarding the activation of persona charts by a Sun transit. I think Persona charts speak more about that archetypal planet within ourselves, any time and place.

I'm not saying you can describe someone's physical appearance in detail based on astrology, but you can certainly notice correlations between ASC, Sun, Moon, Mars, Venus in house/sign and physical appearance. Most people are recognizable just by their Sun sign.

I don't see why you couldn't read an ASC Persona chart just like any other P chart. Precisely because the ASC is such a personalized point in the chart - it means you can make accurate, personalized interpretations regarding that person.

Liz Taylor Ascendant Persona
in natal, Sun conjunct Mars and Mercury in Pisces 2nd, Venus conjunct Uranus, ASC in Sagittarius.

Liz Taylor' ASC Persona chart speaks more about her appearance than her natal ASC. Although her natal ASC in Sagittarius probably gave a her an upfront, even blunt manner (she was known for it) and an appetite for traveling, she has ASC in Taurus in ASC P chart, in correlation with her natal Sun in 2nd. ASC in Taurus defines a lot her Venusian physical appearance. Chart ruler, Venus on DSC - even more: perceived as a beauty, great popularity, many relationships. Moon opposite Jupiter/Neptune- weight and addiction issues. Mars/Jupiter/Neptune in 6th house squaring Sun in 8th - health issues (she has been a very sick woman all throughout her life). Many surgeries - Uranus in Aries quincunx the stellium in 6th. Heightened Uranus in the 12th house. Uranus square Pluto in 4th - the "black widow". Juno opp. Uranus. Ruler of MC, Saturn in the 10th house conjunct Ceres and opposite Pluto - longevity. And so on.

posted April 12, 2014 07:40 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kerosene:
Not really we are all unique looking are we not the asc it's self us rubbish at telling us details of our apperance.

---

posted April 12, 2014 07:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
You look at ASC,planets on ASC, planets in 1st, Sun, Moon, Mars, Venus sign, house and aspects.

---