posted May 30, 2014 09:35 PM            

Copyright Dena L Moore, Intuitive Evolutionary Astrologer

Note: I've had several questions regarding the Saturn-Neptune conjunction so here is a brief bit about it from an email response I gave a site visitor:

"The conjunction is the most powerful aspect, of course, and only recently (in the past two years or so) have I been working with more of the Saturn/Neptune conjunctions. From what I have learned, they are quite similar to the opposition in nature but sometimes even more intense as the two energies fuse and create a feeling that there are no boundaries between where one person begins and the other ends...this can be terrifying for a Soul in body, and particularly for one who is still early in the process of his or her own becoming. Because of this, the Saturn/Neptune conjunction may be the most difficult relationship of this type to solidify or let go of."

The following article also appeared in the Australian Wellbeing Astrology Guide.

The article begins below...

So you are sure you've met before and not only that, you feel as though you may have been lovers at least once in a past life, maybe many times over. When your eyes met for the first time this life, you knew he or she was 'the one'. But wait, the lightning can strike even without seeing each other.
In the Age of Aquarius, karmic lovers are meeting on the web without even the benefit of a photograph first. Yet the lightning strike is so powerful, so consuming, so intense, you fall and you fall hard. At first you are floating on air, sky high in your romantic bliss, everything is simply perfect. New vistas of the divine open before you.

Then reality strikes. One or both of you are married. You live thousands of kilometres apart. There are children, or perhaps an illness, involved. No matter what the complications, and there are bound to be plenty, you know that somehow you and your lover must be together. You feel it in your soul. It is a deep and painful longing, a longing no one else in the world can understand unless they, too, have met a karmic lover with a Saturn-Neptune connection.

Does it read like a tragedy? Romeo and Juliet? Tristan and Isolde? Guinevere and Lancelot? Chances are all of these couples, if we could erect a synastry chart for them, would have a Saturn and Neptune connection. These relationships are the blissful, yet complicated and painful type of relationship.
If there is a distinct Saturn-Neptune connection within the Synastry chart, it is quite likely that the Saturn-Neptune connection also touches the Sun, Moon, Venus, or Mars in both of the partner's individual charts. These relationships appear to offer both heaven and hell to the people involved in them. I consider these types of relationships ‘dangerous loves’, not necessarily violent or abusive relationships, but rather relationships that cause great internal fear.
The safe loves are easy to manage and allow a person to work freely and go about their business. The dangerous loves are consuming and passionate, yet frightening. The dangerous loves are often relationships with heavy karma, and the very essence of the Saturn-Neptune connection is one that suggests that the two people have come together to heal and evolve as individuals.

If you are working on a synastry chart and you find this connection look for the deeper ties to the personal planets. By noting and examining the ties to the personal planets, you can obtain some idea of how the current relationship is manifesting for each individual and how they can approach the healing that needs to take place in the current life. The lovers meet again to clear negative karma and to rekindle their love, however briefly the actual relationship may last. If a person finds this passionate love in the current life but runs from it, he or she is running from their own personal evolution. We can learn a great deal from dangerous relationships. When that special love comes upon us and we indulge in it for a brief time and then choose to escape because the fear is too strong, then we are choosing to turn our back on love. Avoiding these heavy karmic Saturn-Neptune relationships is akin to avoiding life itself. If we avoid love and strangle it within our hearts and souls, not allowing it to blossom and grow, then we will face the same person again in the future under a similar, or perhaps even more complicated, situation.

Working Together

The Saturn-Neptune connection will not resolve itself on its own, both souls must be willing to work hard to heal together. To confront the 'danger' takes a very evolved soul and often I see one soul who is ready to deal with the karma and rekindle the relationship yet the other soul is not ready. This can be unbearably painful for the person who is ready to tackle the work. I should mention here that even if the relationship ends quickly, the two lovers will often continue to long for each other no matter who they are with or how far apart they are. That is how strong and binding this aspect is within a relationship.

As you continue to work with a Synastry chart containing this configuration, look at the house placements of Saturn and Neptune. This will give some clue as to which area of life brought tragedy in the past. Ask yourself, why were these two souls ripped apart so abruptly? In many cases, one of the partners died a dramatic, sudden death, especially if the 8th house is directly involved. Often their very love for each other was their undoing, and the step towards their own destruction in the past. No wonder that these loves feel so dangerous and frightening!

So how does the energy of the Saturn-Neptune connection manifest for the two people currently entangled in such a relationship? So much depends on other factors in their charts and their current circumstances. If they are married to someone else, should they divorce? If they live far apart, should they relocate? These are tough decisions and it could take years of dedication to one another to make happen. Often, one partner is terrified of the other after the initial blissful honeymoon (Neptune) phase. When the reality (Saturn) of the situation strikes this partner, his or her emotions may become unbearable and he/she must close down emotionally out of self-protection. The partner cannot see immediate results emerging out of the connection because it seems so complicated and he/she isn’t sure that they are willing to walk through the fires in order to reach the heavenly love this aspect promises.

The frightened, less evolved partner may even sever the ties. The person willing to break the connection is often the partner who was left behind, who lost his or her only love because this person may have been drastically punished, forced to marry another, or he/she may have taken an oath to never love again. A deep entrenched wound is hindering the growth of this soul. While this soul is hiding and running away from his or her karmic lover, there can be no healing. The scorned lover (the lover who died or was ruined in the past) is once again hurt, grows desolate, and may even give up on living if he or she is not very spiritual. How can something so wonderful, so beautiful and divine come to such an abrupt halt? Why doesn't he or she call? Why the disappearing act? This wounded soul longs to experience the blissful aspects of the relationship and despite the challenging reality of the situation, this soul feels that the end result is well worth the torturous journey that must be taken to get there. A stalemate (Saturn) is reached between the partners, and if Neptune is the weaker planet in the Synastry and in the individual charts, it is likely that there will be no resolution in the current incarnation. However, if Neptune is stronger than Saturn in the Synastry, it is possible that the Neptunian energy can diffuse and permeate Saturn to the point where healing can begin to take place. In this situation, the couple can work together to form a more solid relationship built on spiritual growth, music, healing the self as well as others, inspiring the human race, compassion, and any other activity that grounds (Saturn) the sublime (Neptune) on the earthly plane.

Karmic astrology can help lovers understand the push-pull effect of their karmic relationships. It may not end the pain, it may not sweep away the hollow emptiness left when one karmic lover suddenly deserts the other, but it can help transform the bitterness left bobbing in the wake of abandonment into something much more bittersweet, that of spiritual understanding and acceptance.

Important Aspects

The opposition is the most prominent Saturn-Neptune connection. Of course a person could have this contact with many people of about the same age, so it is necessary to note the houses and the inner planet contacts that Saturn and Neptune make as well. Saturn or Neptune is usually in a 'karmic' house: 1st, 4th, 8th, 10th, 12th. Occasionally it may be found that the Sun, Moon, Venus, or Mars is in a karmic house and in a close configuration with the Saturn/Neptune connection. Use an orb under 3 degrees for the peripheral karmic house contact if neither Saturn or Neptune is in one of the above houses. If either Saturn or Neptune is in a karmic house, I would consider aspects with an orb as wide as 10 or even up to 12 degrees, depending on the other planets involved. The contact to the inner planets can be major or 'minor' challenging contacts, including the conjunction, square, semisquare, and sesiquadrate. The sextile and semisextile should be considered as well. The more fluent trine can be significant, especially if in a karmic house but it will usually indicate an easier relationship rather than a desperate loss. Follow your intuition and trust your own judgment when working with the Saturn-Neptune connection.

The square between Saturn-Neptune in the Synastry chart can indicate a karmic lover relationship, but the lovers have not usually lost one another through their love, that is, their relationship didn't cause or contribute to the death of one or both partners as can be the case with the Saturn-Neptune opposition in a karmic house touching a planet or light in both individual nativities. The square more often indicates that there were difficult circumstances in the past that the two individuals failed to handle appropriately and they will once again face a similar situation together. Their incompetence may have cost lives, particularly if they were involved in the medical profession or were military leaders. This configuration can appear when both partners need to work toward a goal that will benefit mankind. It can become a driving force behind a team dedicated to helping others. The square will often be strong enough to hold the two people together if they are able to focus the energy outside the relationship rather than within it. The fear that lingers so deeply with the opposition could manifest within the relationship with the Saturn-Neptune square, but it isn’t likely to be as strong nor focused within the relationship. For instance, meeting the other person could bring up unknown fears and insecurities within each individual, but they will not be fearful of the other person. Instead, they may come to lean on the other to offer support and help them overcome the new fears as they develop. Fear of professional success or health maladies may be brought to the forefront through the connection. For instance, one partner may be scared to take a risk in order to make more money or gain prestige in his or her profession while the other partner develops allergies or begins to worry excessively about cancer or another terrible disease.

The trine is typically easier and while it may still indicate a loss of one another through a love relationship, it usually shows a loss that was natural, either through disease or simply old age. This Saturn-Neptune connection will not be as complicated, draining, or as important as one with an opposition or square. They will likely feel that sense of knowing one another on a deep level quite immediately, but the fear will not be there to undermine the potential of a long-term relationship. I wouldn’t consider a Saturn-Neptune trine in the Synastry chart as an indicator of a dangerous love. Keep in mind that the dangerous loves will bring greater challenges and offer a more significant opportunity for soul growth and healing at the same time. A Saturn-Neptune trine in the Synastry may not be powerful enough to bring a couple together, so if it is there, be sure to look at the other contacts between the charts to determine how the trine could help or hinder the relationship.

posted May 30, 2014 10:57 PM            

1st relationship...in Trop, my Chiron on his Karma opposed his Isis, his Chiron on my DC is opposed my Karma, my Karma on his Osiris on my AC, then my Osiris on his NN, my Isis on his Saturn on his IC
Trop Yod-
My Neptune saggy@11.15
His Saturn taurus@11.00
My Pluto libra@11.04
His NN pisces@10.48

Trine-
His Neptune saggy@0.12
My Saturn leo@2.50
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2nd relationship....in Trop, my Karma opposed his Saturn, his Karma opposed my Chiron, his Isis conjunct my Osiris on his Moon opposed my Moon on his IC/MC angle
His Isis sextile my Isis, his Osiris exact trine my Pluto and exact sextile my Saturn

Trop Composite-
Saturn gem@4.14
Neptune saggy@3.04
Mercury saggy@4.05
Pluto libra@1.55
Sun saggy@10.07(my trop Neptune saggy@11.15
Isis aries@14.51(my trop Jupiter aries@15.04)
Karma libra@15.41(my progressed Karma the day we met libra@16.31)
Moon saggy@16.00(his trop Sun saggy@15.44)

Draco Composite-
Pluto scorp@22.41(my trop NN scorp@21.44)
Neptune cap@23.50
Saturn cap@25.00(his Trop NN aries@26, his Karma libra@25)
Mercury cap@24.51
Karma saggy@6.27(my trop Sun saggy@4.28/his AC saggy@5.18)
Isis saggy@5.37(my trop Karma libra@5-6)

posted May 30, 2014 11:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Interestingly, I only have the square with my Twin, and the opposition with my husband.

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posted May 30, 2014 11:34 PM            

My only advice/suggestion is run, before it's to late.
(Note)
It's most likely too late..

posted May 30, 2014 11:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Do you have any karma connections to your synastry or composite aspects to either Neptune or Saturn?

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With my Twin, his KARMA and SATURN are conjunct by 1°, with his SNODE @ 3°. Just about anything that touches gets a karmic jolt. Naturally, my MOON is there, less than 1°. Naturally!

My KARMA is exactly conjunct his PLUTO, 4° SCO. Same sign as his KARMA, but nowhere near conjunct.

Now, interestingly enough, my Guardian's NEP is the same sign as my KARMA, and DESTINN.

My husband's NEP makes no aspect. His KARMA is trine my SATURN by 1°, however. His SAT makes no aspect to my KARMA, either.

posted May 31, 2014 12:03 AM            

My Chiron Aries@24.14
1st guy Karma aries@25.11
2nd guy Karma libra@25.33

My Karma libra@5.49
My DC aries@7.05
My Sun saggy@4.28
My Merc saggy@3.32
My Saturn leo@2.50
My Soulie saggy@0.20
My Parvarti saggy@0.59

1st guy-Uranus libra@5.38
Chiron aries@7.53
Moon saggy@5.06
Mars gemini@3.43
Destin gem@0.26
Parvarti aries@0.46
Neptune saggy@0.12

2nd guy-Saturn aries@5.38
AC saggy@5.18
Mercury saggy@4.33
Mars aqua@5.10
Destin saggy@3.41
Parvarti gem@2.12
His Alma libra@26.44...on his Karma, opposed my Chiron

posted May 31, 2014 04:23 AM            

The guy I have this synastry with we can come n go out of each other's lives for quite awhile, once we didn't speak for 9 months....but the moment either of us contacts the other, it's like your home again.
We pick up exactly where we left off, literally last time we finished a conversation that had started months before.

Yes, we drove each other bonkers but we had so much compassion n forgiveness it didn't matter, we always went immediately back to a protective feeling between us...like we could drive each other crazy but nobody else could without there being consequences for it.

posted May 31, 2014 05:21 AM            

I can't imagine I have karma with all of them.... Or do I? And if so what was I up to?

posted May 31, 2014 05:48 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
sc0rpioRising.....I doubt you will ever be off his mind! The things you went through you went through together! He can't judge it all as your fault he is probably feeling it's you who wants him out of your life.

The guy I have this synastry with we can come n go out of each other's lives for quite awhile, once we didn't speak for 9 months....but the moment either of us contacts the other, it's like your home again.
We pick up exactly where we left off, literally last time we finished a conversation that had started months before.

Yes, we drove each other bonkers but we had so much compassion n forgiveness it didn't matter, we always went immediately back to a protective feeling between us...like we could drive each other crazy but nobody else could without there being consequences for it.

For some reason I don't think this aspect allows for a permanent departure from each other's lives, even if it's not particularly a healthy relationship.

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posted May 31, 2014 05:48 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by LucieLemonade:
I love this article and I was a bit excited about the idea of this with my new crush.

But then I realized so many people a few years old than me will have Nept conj my Jupiter in the 1st and opp my Saturn in the 7th. (Although my new crush seems to have much closer orbs than others.) No? Am I wrong about this?

I can't imagine I have karma with all of them.... Or do I? And if so what was I up to?

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You need to check if they are occupying a karmic house (especially one of the water houses, I would count 12th here, too) or on the relationship-axis (1st-7th).

posted May 31, 2014 06:33 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sc0rpioRising:
Thank u Gabby for making me feel some hope. How does one cope with this? I dont want to have any expectations or hope that we will be together . False hope will drive me to the wrong path. I just want to learn to love myself even if that means we never see eachother again.. i truly believe he feels indifferent . Think he even said it to me once..

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I think the only way to know if this kind of relationship is meant to become something more substantial is by doing exactly what your doing...forget about him and focus in you!
This relationship has so much Karma attached to it, it will come back around on it's own if it is meant to be.
That leaves you needing to be strong and healthy when and if it does.
If it doesn't, you've bettered yourself so it's a win/win for you!
You can't rush karma so just let it go and watch it play out on it's own.
Anything involving karma means you need to make sure your thoughts are happy, optimistic, try to make them as worry free as possible. Our thoughts create our feelings to grow for good or bad, our feelings are the energy vibration we send out, is it a good, high vibration or a low vibration?
The energy we send out to the universe we get back a like energy....so we want to send out as much positive energy as we can so we get positive energy back.

When you think about him, try hard not to stress or be anxious or pessimistic regarding him, I know it's hard! You might have to force yourself but do it....believe the very best will happen!
Try not to push for anything to go exactly as you think it should, just let your higher self guide you and trust you are in excellent hands.
Allow yourself to feel at peace knowing the outcome will be exactly what you needed, even if it's not exactly as you had pictured it originally.

I made up a little song for my kids to help train their ego or conscious mind to take a back seat to their higher self. The song teaches the subconscious to follow the lead of the higher self instead of allowing the fears and trips the ego gets on from preventing us from connecting to our higher self.
Our ego, as useful as it is, when left untrained thinks it knows it all. That's it's problem though, all it does is think and act on what it's been taught, if those teachings are for good or bad the ego doesn't discern the difference.
True peace comes from following the higher self which feels energy way before our minds or ego can see it, perceive it, analyze it and chose what to do with it.
Our subconscious mind is the only connection we have to our higher self, so we need to train the subconscious to first hear the higher self and if the ego tries to interfere, ignore the ego.

Here's my lil song...yes I'm a nerd!

Subconscious be...
In subjection to the higher me
Let it be...
The ruler over me, to set myself free
Follow the highest love that can never fail
Following it I will prevail

I sing this with my kids everyday n now it's stuck in my head to, I find myself humming it all the time, lol!
BUT....I've noticed a huge difference in my anxiety and its much easier to let go of fears that come up, normally they would have stuck with me n made me feel anxious, ungrounded and pessimistic.

posted May 31, 2014 07:09 AM            

Your always the priority, don't ever forget that! Everyone that comes into your life comes as tool to help you, some in negative ways others in positive ways, but it's all always about you!

posted May 31, 2014 07:12 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Your the priority, don't ever forget that! Everyone that comes into your life comes as tool to help you, some in negative ways others in positive ways, but it's all always about you!

If you want the best things for yourself, if that includes him...then start building a life that reflects your value because that will attract things that are up to the standards of what you deserve.
I love how he's the free spirit you want to be, that so sweet!
You've already gained strength from him, strength that has helped you identify your needs...keep that up!
Take the things you like n admire about him and let it inspire to become a better you, maybe your paths will be growing more alike...who knows, maybe even crossing or coming together someday through the changes you made as you found yourself, it can happen as long as you remember everything is about you! No one else's path is where you belong, but that doesn't mean they can't merge!

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posted May 31, 2014 07:15 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sc0rpioRising:
Your a hopeful and positive soul and you have lifted my spirits. I shall concentrate on me myself and I and will hope it leads me to my fateful destination. Thank u Gabby!

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posted May 31, 2014 07:26 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
With my Twin, his KARMA and SATURN are conjunct by 1°, with his SNODE @ 3°. Just about anything that touches gets a karmic jolt. Naturally, my MOON is there, less than 1°. Naturally!

My KARMA is exactly conjunct his PLUTO, 4° SCO. Same sign as his KARMA, but nowhere near conjunct.

Now, interestingly enough, my Guardian's NEP is the same sign as my KARMA, and DESTINN.

My husband's NEP makes no aspect. His KARMA is trine my SATURN by 1°, however. His SAT makes no aspect to my KARMA, either.

What have you found with KARMA linkages, Gabby?

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posted May 31, 2014 08:20 AM              

his Saturn in 7th house conjunct my KARMA in 7th house: 0°30
his Saturn widely opposite my Neptune: 5°34
(cp: 0°36)

his Saturn conjunct my SN widely: 5°20

his Saturn trine my Moon: 1°36
his Saturn square my JUNO: 1°28
his Saturn quinkunx my SIVA: 0°33
his Saturn conjunct my KAALI: 2°43

my Neptune conjunct his Venus: 3°07
my Neptune conjunct his ASC: 0°50
my Neptune sextile his SIVA: 0°48
My Neptune semisextile his KAALI: 1°18

plus

my Saturn in 8th house conj. his SN: 0°06

EDIT:
We are Siva and Kaali through and through - composite has a square of these two with the Draconic Kaali falling onto tropical Siva and ther everse, configured with the nodal axis obviously (and Venus-Sun-SAturn, too).

Davison has the opposition.

posted May 31, 2014 09:22 AM            

My Saturn 19 Taurus oppose his Neptune 21 Scorpio
In his 8th house

His Saturn 23 Pisces trine my Neptune 28 Scorpio

These are on his Nodes too at 25 Taurus/Scorpio

posted May 31, 2014 09:24 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
[B] You need to check if they are occupying a karmic house (especially one of the water houses, I would count 12th here, too) or on the relationship-axis (1st-7th).

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posted May 31, 2014 09:39 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by LucieLemonade:
In mine they are. You mean where mine falls in their chart?

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