posted July 20, 2014 05:58 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by mir:
We had a trans-dimensional pVenus/pMars applying conjunction when we met.

In Geo, his pVenus conjunct my pMars by 1 appl.
In Helio, his pVenus conjunct my pMars by 1 appl.

I didn't even know that something like that at-first-sight could exist.. well, I think also the mutuality made it special, double your pleasure, double your fun. No hidden motives.

Inevitable.

---

I'm beginning to think Venus/Mars in progressions is equally potent, if not more, than Sun/Venus. What do you think, Mir? I also wonder if Sun/Moon were equally potent?? They are the Yin/Yang archetypes, after all.

Sun/Moon should point to union, to "marriage", whilst Venus/Mars to the strong attraction feminine vs. masculine. Lovers vs. husband/wife.

posted July 20, 2014 06:48 AM              

"What do Jupiter and Saturn mean in your composite, what do they rule?"

Jupiter rules 11th house and falls into 5th house.
Saturn rules 12th house (and traditionally 1st) and falls into 7th house.
Saturn also disposits Venus, which it biquintiles.
Venus rules the IC (and 9th house and NN) and falls into 12th house.

"Of course, a quincunx Yod is perhaps different than a Golden Yod,"
I think it would be different, yes.
The quinkunx Yod might be more karmic or fated in the sense that things are going to be learned. 12th harmonic aspects after all.

Golden Yods are 5th harmonic aspects and might be a little more expansive in nature.

BTW I just reread some of Blashkes work yesterday and coincidentally stumbled across him mentioning the septiles/ biseptiles being more prominent in fated lovers. Didn`t your parents have a septile pattern or septile aspects, too?

posted July 20, 2014 06:50 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
I'm beginning to think Venus/Mars in progressions is equally potent, if not more, than Sun/Venus. What do you think, Mir? I also wonder if Sun/Moon were equally potent?? They are the Yin/Yang archetypes, after all.

Sun/Moon should point to union, to "marriage", whilst Venus/Mars to the strong attraction feminine vs. masculine. Lovers vs. husband/wife.

---

I think they are equal in potency but may differ in quality, of WHAT and HOW they express. Sun-Venus is usually a lot calmer than Venus-Mars.

As for Sun-Moon- definitely, but keep in mind that the pr Moon is such a quick mover, it represents more of a temporary opportunity or trigger than anything else.

Of course pr Sun to natal Moon might be longer lasting.

However, even though the pr Moon IS a quick mover, its triggering potential is definitely there.

Example:

After my "hiatus" of 9 months I reappeared on an open air musical in 2012, where he was, too, and he certainly noticed me then, considering the way he suddenly jerked his head back into my direction, twice, as if to make sure I was being there.
Of course I later denied this ever had happened, cause I am jsut so good in selfdenial.
But that movement of his head was there, and a bit later, I had the impression he was pretty much staring at me; I guess my neighbour shared my impression, cause she was constantly alternating in looking at him, looking at me, looking at him again. lol
We are always good for some slapstic comedy I suppose.

That very day my pr Moon was on 26 Gemini EXACTLY opposing his (and my) natal Sun and of course opposing composite Sun.
The timing couldn`t have been more accurate. lol (orb of my pr Moon to our composite Sun was 0°15 separating, applying to oppose his natal Sun by 0.16)

This last month my pr Moon on 23.35 Cancer was opposing our composite Moon on 22.52 Capricorn.
not really triggering anything in his natal chart I think.

However, as of now (next saturday) my pr Moon is 25.21 Cancer opposing his n Venus on 25.55 Capricorn.

and in our pr composite Moon on 4.00 Gemini is trine pr composite Sun on 4.04 Aquarius

not sure if that means anything, but it certainly looks nice.

funny enough my pr Juno on 4 Aries right on my natal IC on 4 aries, is on its midpoint

posted July 20, 2014 07:08 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Leeloo,

"What do Jupiter and Saturn mean in your composite, what do they rule?"

Jupiter rules 11th house and falls into 5th house.
Saturn rules 12th house (and traditionally 1st) and falls into 7th house.
Saturn also disposits Venus, which it biquintiles.
Venus rules the IC (and 9th house and NN) and falls into 12th house.

"Of course, a quincunx Yod is perhaps different than a Golden Yod,"
I think it would be different, yes.
The quinkunx Yod might be more karmic or fated in the sense that things are going to be learned. 12th harmonic aspects after all.

Golden Yods are 5th harmonic aspects and might be a little more expansive in nature.

BTW I just reread some of Blashkes work yesterday and coincidentally stumbled across him mentioning the septiles/ biseptiles being more prominent in fated lovers. Didn`t your parents have a septile pattern or septile aspects, too?

---

Great houses for a love Yod. I forgot to mention a Venus Yod is potentially a love Yod (especially in a romantic composite/synastry) - apart from its meaning related to art or money or other Venus stuff, if it's the case. But it's generally a love Yod. Interesting soulmate connection with IC and 12th house.

Yes, yes, yes about the septiles. Fated, otherworldy, synchronicity stuff. The spiritual/fated Bride, the spiritual/fated Groom. Sometimes the connection happens in this life or not, the septile doesn't always incarnate - just a hypothesis. But the higher realms "marriage" will be there, felt between those two people. A soulmate aspect without a doubt. I have two in my database - Sun/Moon - (apart from my parents), I haven't checked this septile with famous couples yet, but you gave me a great idea.

My parents have Sun septile Moon, Sun opp Moon. Perhaps the DW brings the septile into the reality plane. No escape with this DW, IMO. Definitely a fated, soulmate pair.

posted July 20, 2014 08:01 AM              

And yes, I hear so many bad things about 12th composite house, just in reality I can`t find evidence of it.
Actually I was so confused that I once did a research on Moon esp. in 12th composite house. And I was flabbergasted at how many people had it, some even in Pisces. lol
Including my parents btw.
composite Moon in 12th house in CAncer (I think making a GT with Juno and Jupiter though).

I like our composite Venus in 12th house actually. It poses a HUGE challenge for me, yes, being exactly opposite my Saturn in 8th house; really pushes me to work thruogh my very personal issues.

However that composite Venus is also square Pluto in 8th in composite. (had to, we both have it natally).

But also trine EROS on the IC, and sextile Uranus on MC. could be worse.

posted July 20, 2014 08:05 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

My parents have Sun septile Moon, Sun opp Moon. Perhaps the DW brings the septile into the reality plane. No escape with this DW, IMO. Definitely a fated, soulmate pair.

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Funny enough Mr Sag and me have it as well.

my Sun conjunct his Moon (2°43)
his Sun septile my Moon (1°22)

posted July 20, 2014 08:16 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Shall we make a 7th harmonic synastry thread then?

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Please I'm crazy about understanding septile, quintile, novile (and other esoterics) in synastry.

Yes, these old 12th house descriptions seem so...outdated lol Prisons, secrets, enemies - it certainly applies in some cases, but I think it was viewed only in this way because ancient people thought "first" is good, "last" is bad (it is the last house), "up" is good, "down" is bad, that kind of thinking. Perhaps our species is sufficiently evolved now for the "good" Neptune

I know you two have them and I think the conjunction being so tight, it makes the septile potent as well, despite it not being exact.

posted July 20, 2014 10:02 AM            

quote:

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I'm beginning to think Venus/Mars in progressions is equally potent, if not more, than Sun/Venus. What do you think, Mir? I also wonder if Sun/Moon were equally potent?? They are the Yin/Yang archetypes, after all.

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Yess at-the-very-least equally potent. Its potential is astonishing! Sun/Venus/Mars are really the big three to look at.. and the Moon.. well, as Ceri says it can be a long one if it's pSun to nMoon (4 years) .. I've seen it once now (conjunct), with my Ex and his new girl but it's a rough estimate as I don't know her birth time. But I'm sure about their tight appl. Helio progressed DW Venus/Mars trine & conjunction for when they got together.

quote:

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That very day my pr Moon was on 26 Gemini EXACTLY opposing his (and my) natal Sun and of course opposing composite Sun.
The timing couldn`t have been more accurate. lol (orb of my pr Moon to our composite Sun was 0°15 separating, applying to oppose his natal Sun by 0.16)

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posted July 23, 2014 06:14 PM            

quote:

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-my prog. Venus conj. his natal Venus
-my prog. Mars conj. his prog. Venus

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quote:

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Also, at that time, my prog. Venus will be exactly conjunct my natal Sun as well as his natal Venus.

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quote:

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...and after it, there will be a new progressed conjunction coming of his progressed Mars conj. my prog. Venus.

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This all ^ sounds more than promising.

Well, I don't look at progressed asteroids, Yods etc. but if you don't mind that I will only confirm the progressed aspects you probably already perfectly nailed down yourself... Ok , no problem with doing that, when done with my progressed break here. The “window of opportunity”.. well said! (let me know when u have it).

posted July 23, 2014 08:58 PM            

quote:

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-my prog. Venus conj. his natal Venus
-my prog. Mars conj. his prog. Venus
-my prog. Sun conj. His natal Sun

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I like these aspects...but I'll need to know more.

1. What's your & his natal Sun-Moon combinations?

posted July 23, 2014 11:54 PM            

I completely forgot that I got together with my ex during an exact pSun/pMoon (my Moon) applying conjunction;

- My pMoon 20'33 Aries
- His pSun 20'39 Aries

We also had a few-minutes separating nSun/pVenus opposition (my Venus).

At that time also an upcoming pVenus/nSun trine (his Venus) by 5*

But shortly after that pMoon/pSun passed.. it went completely downhill.
We separated - after much blood, sweat and tears - 17 months later..(my gosh I fought as hell to keep us together.. more progressed knowlegde probably could have saved me)

posted July 24, 2014 06:26 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by mir:

At that time also an upcoming pVenus/nSun trine (his Venus) by 5*

That pVenus/nSun trine ^ was with 3'10 appl. (only thing left) during the split, clearly not enough. But also noteworthy; nothing left after this trine.. completely nothing, not for the near nor the far future (unless we focus on solstice conjunctions).

---

Oops, how come? That's not good for progressions analysis. lol It should have brought you together...especially a trine, which makes things "friendly". No? Strong fights and struggle during an applying trine? Whose Venus?

------------------

posted July 24, 2014 06:30 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Wild Horses:

-There is a trine forming between his Prog. Sun in Virgo and my Prog. Moon in Taurus. It's still a few degrees apart right now, but will grow closer over the next few years.
-His prog. Sun in Virgo will also be coming into a conjunction with his prog. Moon in Virgo.
-His prog. Sun and Moon conj. in Virgo will be conj. my natal Moon in Virgo.
-His prog.Sun-Moon conj. my natal Moon in Virgo will be trine my prog. Moon in Taurus.
-There are more aspects between our various prog. and natal Suns and Moons, but I can't remember exactly what they are, some trines and sextiles. I do remember my prog. Sun in Leo will be exactly conj. his natal Sun, which is exactly conj. my natal Sun-Moon Midpoint. It also will trine his natal Moon in Aries.

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Wow...these look like impressive multiple Sun/Moon progressions to me. Plus, he has that progressed New Moon, and it falls on your natal Moon, which is wow.

posted July 24, 2014 10:42 AM            

quote:

---

Oops, how come? That's not good for progressions analysis. lol It should have brought you together...especially a trine, which makes things "friendly". No? Strong fights and struggle during an applying trine? Whose Venus?

---

His Venus. Well, it's in fact only underlining the Westran theory that it usually will be felt within a 2 deg orb. So for me, a confirmation again that we have to keep the orbs tight. That's one thing.

Another thing; it wasn't easy for him either, to let me go. During this tighter orb appl. he was already having another girl but in 2 minds about me and her and wondering if what he did was right - leaving me (he admitted in an email). AS ... (here it is) she wasn't able to reproduce herself either at her age. Bottom line; completely focused on his dream of reproduction with whomever open to it. But yes, it def. became more friendly with the tightening.. ON distance.

posted July 24, 2014 01:52 PM            

(I thought it was also interesting for nine to see this, so why keep it behind until I have the rest?)

Wild Horses and guy.

GEO PROGRESSED-TO-PROGRESSED

At this current right-now moment;

- his pVenus 14'27 Leo.
- her pMars 20'13 Leo.

This ^ will reach the assumed tangible/noticeable orb of 2 deg (appl.)
in Feb. 2021.
It will reach its peak (exact) in August 2024

Also at this current right-now moment;

- her pVenus 25'37 Gem.
- his pMars 5'20 Cancer.

This ^ will reach the assumed tangible orb of 2 deg (appl.) only in
June 2043.
Its peak in July 2047.

(His pMoon is indeed applying to your pSun (conjunct), peak; end of this year)

_____________

GEO progressed Composite;

Venus appl. conjunct to Saturn by 0'28.
Peak within a year.

posted July 24, 2014 03:14 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by mir:
IF .. we're able to stay very close to our inner selves. Comparable with the "sixth sense" of those tsunami animals that ran to the hills hours before the big hit...

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I love the analogy

posted July 24, 2014 03:24 PM              

I'm only looking at applying aspects because I believe applying aspects show a behavior towards acquiring something and towards the movement for an event/manifestation within the couple. To be honest, I don't think separating aspects are separative, they only show that the window for a certain (possible) event already passed.

I've also discovered so far that events are associated with important squares, some of them possibly triggering a synastric aspect. I don't think squares point to separation, they point to a turning point, just like squares always do. But I'll get to this later, this is another matter, related to events in particular.

The main idea is: The progressed person is a transit to the natal. So we can see what the progressed person "wants" from the natal, and how he is integrated in the natal's life. The progressed "applies" for a position in the natal's life.

So I have this data: his progressed applying to my natal, for a 6 year window (of course, you can choose any period you want).

2013 - 2019 (of course, retrogrades have to be taken into account)

Sun/Cupido 1 to 6 Taurus
Moon 15 Aries to 9 Cancer (I think the Moon's movement, being so fast, should be discussed separately)
ASC 28 Libra to 2 Scorpio
MC 4 to 10 Leo
Vertex 0 to 7 Gem
Venus 15 to 21 Pisces (his exact Sun position)
Mars/Saturn 0 Cancer to Mars separating from 0 Cancer Saturn and arriving at 4 Cancer

and some important love asteroids

Juno 28 Aqua to 0 Pisces
Amor 26 to 29 Taurus
Valentine 25 to 25 Virgo (retro)
Eros 13 to 16 Pisces (I also recommend Cupido, but he has it conjunct his Sun

What do we have here?

His Sun/Cupido transits my 3rd house - my secondary 5th - I might like that. It's like a temporary overlay in my sec 5th

His Venus transits my 2nd house - this will bring everything a Venus/2nd house overlay means for the period

His Mars transits my 6th house - he's got to do some repairs around the house for me hahahaha This is also my secondary 8th

His ASc/DSc transit my 9th/3rd
His Mc/Ic transit my 7th house
His Vertex my 4th house
his Juno my 1st house - a good placement for a general partnership
his Amor my 4th
his valentine my 8th
his Eros my 2nd - a good placement for a physical Eros here

What else does it mean? Some time during this period:

His Sun/Cupido squares my Psyche applying for a trine to my Venus (6 Virgo) and moving towards my Vesta (11 Scorpio) for the following period

His Venus starts from the position of squaring my NN/Karma and applies for a trine to my Sun (20 Virgo) passing over a trine/sextile to my ASC/DSC 19 Cap. Then continues his movement towards a trine to my Mars etc.

His Mars starts from an exact square to my Mars among other things, begins to transit my 8th house stellium by square, and approaches my Ceres/Juno, continuing his movement towards my Venus (in the future).

His AsC transits my Lust, moves towards Ceres/Juno

His MC/IC transits my Neptune by trine and Eros and Pluto by sextile and continues its movement towards my Moon and my own MC/IC.

His Vertex transits my Venus cross (with Eros, Neptune, Ceres and his own planets), arrives in 2019 in exact position, in trine with Pluto and Psyche too, continues its movement towards my Mercury etc.

His Juno approaches my Venus cross and my own Juno (in the future), passes through a trine with my Lust (also arrives on his natal Jupiter)

His Amor passes through a square with my own Amor (and Vertex) applies for my Mars/Union in trine, and later, to Psyche.

His Valentine stationary conjunct my Sun/Mars mdp. Valentine conjunct Sun, Valentine conjunct Mars.

His Eros transits my Juno/Jupiter and approaches an opposition to my Sun, a trine to my DSC and MC, passes through a Saturn trine.

The exact moments of the aspect (I'd say under 1 deg) can be determined to predict certain events/ event windows/couple dynamics.

The other way around will complete the picture.
------------------

posted July 24, 2014 11:18 PM            

quote:

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^ I probably should also have a bit more focus on the Moon towards the Sun.

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Yes. I like to start my pSynastry by first looking at the pSun & pMoon. Often they can be found in the 4th harmonic (conj, opp, square) when things click into place.

I'd go as far as saying that pSynastry wont work unless the pLuminaries are in the 4th harmonic.

Note: I'm not deviating from Westran's methodology. As in, I'm not looking at the synastry between Sun/Moon. What I'm looking at is the progressed position of Sun/Moon in one individual's chart. This is how I use the progressed Luminaries.

The other way I use the Sun & Moon is to determine if the partner is an ideal match. For this I look at the natal positions of the Luminaries. This is a personal/developing theory; but I believe your ideal partner will have the opposing moon phase to your own. For this I use the four major phases; New Moon-Full Moon, First Quarter-Last Quarter / New Moon-Last Quarter, First Quarter-Full Moon. These are the basic pairings. I know everyone has their preferences, and I suspect the opposite sex parent may play a role, but this is still a developing theory.

Charles & Diana v. Charles & Camilla.

Natal Sun-Moon.

Charles & Diana were both born around the full moon. In the beginning this should make them very attracted to each other because of the familiarity. Over time, however, they will find each other lacking because they're both missing the same part and looking to each for it.

Camilla, while a Cancer like Diana, was born at the New Moon - the opposite of a Full Moon. This compliments Charles's Full Moon perfectly. In each other they will find whatever is missing in themselves.

Charles/Diana/Camilla

pSun & pMoon in the 4th harmonic

The year Diana was engaged to marry the Prince she had pSun in Cancer & pMoon in Libra...among other configurations. Charles for his part had pSun in Sagittarius, pMoon in Gemini.

posted July 24, 2014 11:22 PM            

GEO progressed-to-natal;

- His progressed Sun will make an exact square to her natal Venus
(in 2023).

- although a long way to go, I found this rrreally interesting (just
the fact THAT it will happen);
His pMars will not only be conjunct her pVenus (as mentioned in my
last progressed-to-progressed post ^) in July 2047, but
at-the-exact-same-time also exactly (by 2 minutes only) conjunct her
natal Mars! (yea well, this is prob. only mindblowing for the
progressed addict lol)

- Her progressed Sun will be exactly conjunct his natal Sun in a bit
less than 4 years (it's now conjunct my Sun by 4 min. separating lol)

Also right-now;
- Her progr. Venus 25'37 Gem
- Her natal Venus 25'57 Gem
- her natal Sun 27'21 Gem
- HIS natal Venus 1'07 Cancer

(peak ^ of her pVenus on his nVenus June 2022)

Which means....

That this ^ very nice one would be around the same time as....

quote:

---

GEO PROGRESSED-TO-PROGRESSED

At this current right-now moment;

- his pVenus 14'27 Leo.
- her pMars 20'13 Leo.

This ^ will reach the assumed tangible/noticeable orb of 2 deg (appl.)
in Feb. 2021.
It will reach its peak (exact) in August 2024

---

This hot one ^^ !

OK wild horses.. my guess until now is that this period (2020/21 - 2023/24)
will be THE PERIOD with him... (in one way or another..)

OWWW.. and to NOT forget; mid 2023 his pSUN
will be exactly on your nMoon also!

One big culmination then.

posted July 25, 2014 04:35 AM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nine:
Yes. I like to start my pSynastry by first looking at the pSun & pMoon. Often they can be found in the 4th harmonic (conj, opp, square) when things click into place.

I'd go as far as saying that pSynastry wont work unless the pLuminaries are in the 4th harmonic.

Note: I'm not deviating from Westran's methodology. As in, I'm not looking at the synastry between Sun/Moon. What I'm looking at is the progressed position of Sun/Moon in one individual's chart. This is how I use the progressed Luminaries.

The other way I use the Sun & Moon is to determine if the partner is an ideal match. For this I look at the natal positions of the Luminaries. This is a personal/developing theory; but I believe your ideal partner will have the opposing moon phase to your own. For this I use the four major phases; New Moon-Full Moon, First Quarter-Last Quarter / New Moon-Last Quarter, First Quarter-Full Moon. These are the basic pairings. I know everyone has their preferences, and I suspect the opposite sex parent may play a role, but this is still a developing theory.

Charles & Diana v. Charles & Camilla.

Natal Sun-Moon.

Charles & Diana were both born around the full moon. In the beginning this should make them very attracted to each other because of the familiarity. Over time, however, they will find each other lacking because they're both missing the same part and looking to each for it.

Camilla, while a Cancer like Diana, was born at the New Moon - the opposite of a Full Moon. This compliments Charles's Full Moon perfectly. In each other they will find whatever is missing in themselves.

Charles/Diana/Camilla

pSun & pMoon in the 4th harmonic

The year Diana was engaged to marry the Prince she had pSun in Cancer & pMoon in Libra...among other configurations. Charles for his part had pSun in Sagittarius, pMoon in Gemini.

The year Camilla finally snagged Charles she had pSun in Virgo, pMoon in Virgo. Charles for his part had pSun in Capricorn, pMoon in Capricorn.

---

Joanne/Paul Newman both had New Moons. Linda and Paul McCartney had Crescent Moons, both of them.

I'm interested in your progressed luminaries idea. Are you saying two people can get together only if they have progressed Moon in aspect to progressed Sun in their natal?

posted July 25, 2014 04:48 AM              

I don't think a progressed square means "ending". Chances are, based on what I see here in progressions, a progressed square shows some issues become acute, they require immediate/important action or there is some event involving both people. It is like a turning point when action is needed, when actions cannot be postponed anymore.

For example, if two people haven't gotten together yet (one of them is still pondering, for instance), when the square aligns (between planets important to them/their synastry/comp and I suspect - reflecting a synastric or composite aspect), there will be a change of pace or mind or a resolution, so the pondering person will finally decide to invite the girl on a date. If they are together, the square can be separative, but it could also mean they decide to get married and they plan their wedding. When the aspect begins to separate (after a few degrees), it means the window has passed, nothing more, IMO: for example, if the guy doesn't invite the girl during the window, when the aspects separates, she leaves for an internship in another country, so he has to wait for another window to connect with her. I'll come back with examples.

Squares in particular will point to actions and turning points (this is what squares do in transits also, think of the squares of the great outers).

Another thing I've noticed after looking at some progressed evolutions: Sun Moon Venus Mars may be telling in a general way, but every couple or some couples have a synastric/composite THEME: like in your case, Moon/Saturn. I believe the progressed evolution of the theme (the aspects between those planets) may be more telling for that couple's evolution than the general Sun Moon Venus Mars.

EDIT: Actually, couples have one or several permanent themes, and every-long term couple has some temporary themes: like becoming parents, retiring and getting involved in some post-retirement activities together etc. I think these themes will be reflected in progressions and the dynamics between those planets will be more important for that stage than Sun Moon Venus Mars.

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posted July 25, 2014 05:04 AM              

Also even though some squares might result in breakin up or not coming together at all, I don´t think that is a rule. In fact I would prefer a square compared to nothing happening at all. THAT is where the big emptiness arises. No aspects seem more detrimental to me, with squares you still can work, if you put the effort in it.

posted July 25, 2014 05:10 AM              

Now a few years later I am preparing for my pr Moon moving into opposition to my pr Sun (Leeloo, we talked about that, remember?)
It will not make a T-square with anything in my chart, however pr Sun will be trine my natal DESC at that time (and pr Moon sextile) and the pr Moon will make a Grand trine with my pr Juno on my natal IC and natal Mars on my ASC, which puts my natal Mars on the pr midpoint of Moon/Juno at that time.

Maybe it will not be such a loud bang like it was when Uranus was shaking up things, but I think I can feel the preparation

Actually I can feel it ever since my pr Moon was opposing my natal Sun, so maybe that figures in as well.