posted August 25, 2014 02:24 PM            

Whether you're PLUTO and HADES (H41) or PERSEPHONE (399) or PROSERPINA (26) something whispers to you that you'll never quite be the same after this. Countless myths outside of the original have captured our attention for centuries. It's somewhere in our DNA, this powerful drive, once awakened, is so potent as to be unstoppable.

But first, a little 101.

Persephone was the innocent young maiden, the apple of the Great Harvest Goddess' eye; the classically 'sheltered child'. And one day, she caught the God of the Underworld's. Countless interpretations argue over whether she did so willingly or by force, with each supplying a certain insight.

PERSEPHONE, in astrological terms, is said to be where we are faced with a rapid and radical departure from all we knew -- sometimes, quite literally from home, many times, so total a paradigm shift, that we feel uprooted and thrown to the wolves.

PLUTO / HADES is the powerful transformative drive to bring this about. Drawn to the innocence of PERSEPHONE, it seeks to corrupt and inform on a fundamental level, changing the nature of PERSEPHONE irrevocably. In some ways, this can be a trial by fire, or via deception. There can be a great scheming to instill complete and unyielding change. It's visceral, raw, and undeniable.

Over time, astrologers have been arriving at a consensus that PROSERPINA represents Persephone after she has evolved and changed to become Queen of the Underworld at Hades' side.

Here, PROSERPINA is domina of her domain -- no longer the frightened child or innocent maiden. She is in control; in charge. No longer afraid of death, but mistress of it in her own right.

Where our PERSEPHONE and PROSERPINA are located, how they aspect, and what story they tell, can unfold the key points of your own journey through the Underworld.

Where and how another's PLUTO or HADES is configured shows how they're involved in the process, and what we may expect from the combination.

posted August 25, 2014 02:52 PM            

My PROSERPINA is on my Sun(2°) and Eros(0°50'), sextile PERSEPHONE(1°).
PERSEPHONE is wide on MC(4°).
Their midpoint is on Ceres(1°).

Together, they form a Yod pointing toward my Moon(3°), Uranus(2°) and Moon/Uranus midpoint(0°14').

My HADES is inconjunct Pluto(0°27')

HADES and PROSERPINA H8, PERSEPHONE H9.

--
In synastry,
-his BML+Nessus are on my Proserpina,
-his Hades is on my BML+Psyche+Pallas, which is opp. my Pluto(4°)
-his Proserpina is exact on my DC
-his Persephone is opposite my Nessus
-my Proserpina is square his Pluto(0°), which conjuncts my Nessus(0°)
...

posted August 25, 2014 02:57 PM            

The main protagonists
------------------------

CERES: 9 Pisces
(Jupiter, he is the daddy after all): 11 Pisces
(ZEUS: 9 Pisces)

PERSEPHONE: 13 Virgo
PROSERPINA: 21 Sagittarius

Pluto: 9 Libra

supporting characters:

EROS: 21 Cancer
AMOR: 2 Sagittarius
CUPIDO: 19 Leo
Venus: 6 Cap
APHRODITE: 13 Libra

ATLANTIS 8 Sag
DNA 20 Libra
Chiron 20 Aries
SPIRIT: 10 Cap
(IsisOsiris on 8 Cap)
ATROPOS: 19 Aquarius

what do we see here?

complex 1)

CERES conjunct Jupiter conjunct ZEUS

square
ATLANTIS/ASC/NORTH NODE

quinkunx
PLUTO

so my nodal axis and relationship axis is tied to CERES by square, and to Pluto by sextile

complex 2)

CERES widely opposite PERSEPHONE (4 degrees, usually too wide)

CERES quinkunx Pluto

Naturaly Pluto and PERSEPHONE are parallel (happens sometimes with loose semisextiles)

and both are contraparallel DEMETER

Need I say more? lol

(demeter herself is on 1 Cap exact on my VESTA and Sun/Venus-mp and naturaly on the AP)

complex 3)

PROSERPINA on 21 Sag

quintile Pluto exact
(2 minutes)

Proserpina also making a GT with

Chiron on 20 Aries
and
CUPIDO on 19 Leo.

Which is transformed into a Kite by

ATROPOS on 19 Aquarius (near Moon on 17 Aquarius)
and
DNA on 20 Libra (with Kassandra, Sappho, Musa near to it as well).

Story-telling Sabians:

CERES and ZEUS
An Aviator Pursues His Journey, Flying Through Ground-Obscuring Clouds

DEMETER and VESTA
Three Rose Windows In A Gothic Church, One Damaged By War

PERSEPHONE
An Aristocratic Family Tree

PROSERPINA
A Chinese Laundry

Pluto
Having Passed Through Narrow Rapids, A Canoe Reaches Calm Waters

I feel it is a family-thing. lol Clearly tells the story of myhfamily having lost everything during the war and going into exile, so to speak. Well not royalty, but at least the maternal family was quite wealthy and actually ther is some obscure stuff having to do with some lord or baron in the past, a family secret. lol
But as it were, they were evicted, and starting over from zero over here.
Maybe that is the reason that there are so many family and war related sabians in there.

For the supporting characers in the story.

Jupiter
In The Sanctuary Of An Occult Brotherhood, Newly Initiated Members Are Being Examined And Their Character Tested

ASC
Within The Depths Of The Earth New Elements Are Being Formed

NN
In The Left Section Of An Archaic Temple, A Lamp Burns In A Container Shaped Like A Human Body

Atlantis
A Mother Leads Her Small Child Step By Step Up A Steep Stairway

and the 20`s area Sabians:

Chiron
A Pugilist Enters The Ring

DNA
A Sunday Crowd Enjoying The Beach

EROS
A Famous Singer Is Proving Her Virtuosity During An Operatic Performance

VERTEX and far Sun/MOon
A Young Woman Awaiting A Sailboat

DESTINN
A Woman And Two Men Castaways On A Small Island Of The South Seas

CUPIDO
Zuni Indians Perform A Ritual To The Sun

ATROPOS
A Large White Dove Bearing A Message

posted August 25, 2014 03:30 PM            

When we have PERSEPHONE / PROSERPINA strong in our charts, we'll no doubt have these themes play out, sending us careening into the abyss; conversely, if PLUTO and HADES are strong, we'll find that we're instruments of this sort of fate -- forces of such change.

Natally, as a SUN-PLUTO, 2º I'm used to being the one to bring about transformative experiences, and teach others how to ditch what is unfulfilling -- even if it's frightening, completely eradicates the status quo, and changes them forever.

Interestingly, I have PROSERPINA opposite my DEJANIRA (1º) and exactly conjunct my PALLAS in my 8H.

Perhaps, the dots are more connected if PERSEPHONE and PROSERPINA are natally aspecting; we can see a clear path for our transformation.

In my case, PERSEPHONE is hugging ALMA-JUNO tightly (1º) along with SATURN (3º). She holds fast to the status quo -- what is traditional, safe, and expected of her. (Funny then, how PROSERPINA's tightest link is a conjunction to PALLAS in the 8H? Hmmmmm. If I have 'Daddy issues' it's not coming from this life.) She's also been taught mixed messages: stand on your own two feet and demand what's fair in your relationship -- but turn a blind eye to any sort of betrayal of that trust.

My PERSEPHONE is quite ... confused.

As all of this is going on in the house of identity and self (1H) it has a major impact upon who I am, and what I see myself as being -- especially in relationships. How others see me as well.

Perhaps, in response to JUNO's mixed messages, the security of structure is sought in lieu of unravelling that tangled mess. So, PERSEPHONE does as she should, being the good daughter, the respectable hostess, the dutiful maiden. Frankly, she could stay here forever -- in this illusory prison. She's safe -- but she's also stuck. JUNO rules with her iron fist, and SATURN abides. Curiously, it puts forth a matriarchal system -- that's inherently unstable -- with the only true representation of structure -- conceding to it.

In this 'version' of the myth, is PERSEPHONE suddenly victimised -- or unconsciously seeking an escape?

I actually see this sort of psychodrama play out all of the time with my clients -- men, especially. They're so desperate to be free of the power structure they're born into upholding, but they can't allow themselves to abandon it on their own. Instead, they long for a strong, dominant female to enter their lives, wrench power from them, and force them to submit. It's a ]very common fantasy I see becoming strangely rampant in a certain 45+ crowd. I can only surmise they're simply tired of being in control and long to be the submissive one.

When we long deeply for an alternative, but cannot allow ourselves to actively seek it, influences will undoubtedly come which entice us and compel us to explore it. As these are unconscious, it can be extremely frightening, as we aren't REALLY ready to change our status quo. But something even more deeply rooted is screaming for change.

To that end, a see a PLUTO/HADES-PERSEPHONE configuration as a kind of soul contract; it's a definite karmic relationship in which both are playing a role that was predefined long before incarnation.

So, in order to best understand the 'Persephonic rape', we must begin with natal PERSEPHONE -- her aspects and placement; how she relates to the rest of our chart.

Then we can see -- was she senselessly torn from her mother, with her childhood innocence destroyed, and victimised by a more powerful man against which she had no recourse? Or are these the subconscious machinations of a desperate girl seeking the rite of passage that will allow her access to her own womanhood?

posted August 25, 2014 03:53 PM            

PERSEPHONE is opposing chartruler
Pluto is conjunct MC
DEMETER on the Aries point
CERES cojunct chartruler and squaring ASC-NN
Proserpina exactly sextiles DNA

"In my case, PERSEPHONE is hugging ALMA-JUNO"
I do not have ALMA-JUNO aspect natally. However I find it interesting that PERSEPHONE is opposing JUNO (actually she is on the Juno-Jupiter-midpoint) and Pluto opposes ALMA.

Pluto/Persephone mp is 26 Virgo (suare my Sun)
Juno/Alma mp is 26 PIsces (on my Dr ASC exact btw).

It is difficult to not notice that axis through 26 Virgo-Pisces. lol

"he security of structure is sought in lieu of unravelling that tangled mess."
Where is your Arachne?407

Mine is on 8 Sagittarius, exact on my Atlantis, and conjunct ASC-NN-Neptune.
And thus part of the whole, especially in terms of Ceres and Pluto. I always need to untangle things. lol

"Frankly, she could stay here forever -- in this illusory prison. She's safe -- but she's also stuck"
Exactly.

For me that is in Virgo in 9th house (funnily enough my PERSEPHONE is conjunct my Mom`s Mars and my parents share a tight link up of planets in Virgo, my Dads ASC, Saturn and Atlantis on my Mum`s Venus and Mars. my Persephone is a bit too far of the other planets except my mom`s Mars though).

I find it interesting how my Persephone is in respectable Virgo, and my Proserpina in freedomloving Sagittarius. lol

"Or are these the subconscious machinations of a desperate girl seeking the rite of passage that will allow her access to her own womanhood?"
That.

My Persepohne is not really making any kind of havoc, she is too far off most planets for doing that. well opposing Jupiter by 2 degrees and Juno by 3 degrees, but it is not actually that tight link up (I expect 1 degree aspects. lol)

She is exact trine Sphinx in 5th house in Taurus and funny enough Mr Sag`s name in my chart on 13 Capricorn. lol

squaring KAALI tightly and Inannen, which certianly is interesting, but no nasty planetary business.

Oh what I find interesting though she is conjunct PANDORA by 3 degrees, and PANDORA makes a LOT of exact or 1 degree aspects:

opposing JUNO
square KARMA
sextile Saturn
sextile LANCELOT
trine my name asteroid
quinkunx Moon

her Sabian:
A Volcanic Eruption

Pandora is probably someone I should keep an eye on. lol

posted August 25, 2014 04:01 PM            

PROSERPINA opp PLUTO 3°
PERSEPHONE conj PLUTO 2°
PERSEPHONE quincunx HADES 2°
HADES biquintile PLUTO 0°
CERES square PLUTO 3°

PLUTO has kidnapped PERSEPHONE into his domain (8H) quite easily (biquintile HADES), and holds her there in marriage (Libra + JUNO). She must adjust to life in the underworld (quincunx HADES). PROSERPINA then emerges from the ground (2H), asserting her individual rights (Aries) in defiance, but will inevitably return (opp PLUTO)

Her mother CERES fights this pairing (square PLUTO) with strong maternal emotions (Cancer), disrupting her routine (6H).

The whole myth plays out in my chart.

Sabians:
PLUTO - A Butterfly With A Third Wing On Its Left Side
HADES - A Peacock Parading On The Terrace Of An Old Castle
PERSEPHONE - An Airplane Sails, High In The Clear Sky
PROSERPINA - A Pugilist Enters The Ring
CERES - An Indian Girl Introduces Her White Lover To Her Assembled Tribe
---
KD has PLUTO hanging out in the 12H.

In synastry with KD.

my PLUTO trine KD's PROSERPINA 1°
my PROSERPINA opp KD's PLUTO 1°
my PERSEPHONE conj KD's PLUTO 4°
my PERSEPHONE quincunx KD's HADES 1°

In composite with KD.

PLUTO quincunx PROSERPINA 1°
---
JH has natal HADES conj IC, as well. PLUTO, PERSEPHONE, and PROSERPINA all sit in different water signs.

In synastry with JH.

my HADES semisquare JH's PERSEPHONE 0°
my PROSERPINA semisquare JH's HADES 1°

In composite with JH.

posted August 25, 2014 04:08 PM            

Proserpina conj Pluto is very powerful especially if the Guy's Pluto conjuncts the girl's Proserpina or Persephone [any of the two Asteroids]
It is about obsession in posessing/owning the soulmate for a lifelone relationship. Capture then placate lifelong, marry in haste as the Alpha Male and gladly be henpecked for 50 years thereon... it is something like that.

I find strong Pluto-Persphone or Pluto-Proserpina links in over 80% of marriages that have lasted above 15 years. Even the quincunx gives results.

posted August 25, 2014 04:26 PM            

*cora a alternative name used for Persephone in Greek mythology.

posted August 25, 2014 04:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orange:
IQ quote:

Proserpina conj Pluto is very powerful especially if the Guy's Pluto conjuncts the girl's Proserpina or Persephone [any of the two Asteroids]
It is about obsession in posessing/owning the soulmate for a lifelone relationship. Capture then placate lifelong, marry in haste as the Alpha Male and gladly be henpecked for 50 years thereon... it is something like that.

I find strong Pluto-Persphone or Pluto-Proserpina links in over 80% of marriages that have lasted above 15 years. Even the quincunx gives results.

---

posted August 25, 2014 04:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orange:
IQ quote:

Proserpina conj Pluto is very powerful especially if the Guy's Pluto conjuncts the girl's Proserpina or Persephone [any of the two Asteroids]
It is about obsession in posessing/owning the soulmate for a lifelone relationship. Capture then placate lifelong, marry in haste as the Alpha Male and gladly be henpecked for 50 years thereon... it is something like that.

I find strong Pluto-Persphone or Pluto-Proserpina links in over 80% of marriages that have lasted above 15 years. Even the quincunx gives results.

---

posted August 25, 2014 04:37 PM            

So ... there's that.

posted August 25, 2014 04:40 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ail221:
Persephone conjunct Sun/Jupiter
Persephone opposite Saturn
26 Proserpina opposite Saturn/Neptune wide 4
26 Proserpina conjunct Amor/Briede
26 Proserpina trine Pluto 2
H57 Proserpina opposite mars 2
Hades conjunct Atropos
Ceres conjunct mercury and square Pluto
Demeter in 0 taurus conjunct mars
504 Cora conjunct 5th house opposite Demeter
Cora square Hades & trine mars
Persephone/Karma/Dsc make a grand water trine
26 Proserpina/Pluto/groom make another GT
H57 Proserpina/Cupido/Valentine makes the last GT

*cora a alternative name used for Persephone in Greek mythology.

Pluto/Persephone themes come up quite often for me.

---

posted August 25, 2014 04:49 PM            

I swear, your 'how about you try this ... ?' always lead to nothing but trouble!

His HADES is 0°05 quindecile my PROSERPINA (h57).

16° TAU 39'
01 SCO 48'

Boy, is THAT a far cry from 29° Aries.

Now, how do these gals relate? I DO feel my PROSERPINA 26, but, I have to say, the h57, conjunct my DEJA-BML, 1°? Ohhhhh, yes.

Absolutely, unequivocally, yes.

posted August 25, 2014 05:13 PM            

Other (exact) aspects (with 2 exceptions):
my Proserpina sextile his Persephone
my Proserpina opposite his Valentine
my Proserpina quincunx his Pholus
my Proserpina semisquare his Pluto 1
my Hades square his Vesta
my Hades quincunx his Persephone
his Proserpina square my Persephone 1
his Hades quincunx my Moon

posted August 25, 2014 05:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Ah! I forgot about CORA. I'll have to look into that. Thank you, ali.

---

posted August 25, 2014 05:35 PM            

My Proserpina is square Hades-Psyche and trine Uranus. My Persephone is sextile Pluto...wait, it actually forms a kite with Pluto, Sun and Vesta-Hestia (the apex). What does it say about me?

posted August 25, 2014 06:28 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by IndigoDirae:
Over time, astrologers have been arriving at a consensus that PROSERPINA represents Persephone after she has evolved and changed to become Queen of the Underworld at Hades' side.

Here, PROSERPINA is domina of her domain -- no longer the frightened child or innocent maiden. She is in control; in charge. No longer afraid of death, but mistress of it in her own right.

So, where's your PERSEPHONE? How is it aspecting another's PLUTO and / or HADES? And, where does she end up (PROSERPINA) at journey's end?

---

That's the first I've heard of there being a consensus by now about Proserpina as that end of the pair. Anything I've heard previously suggested she was the one less or worse equipped to deal with the change or the one more "raped" instead of a willing version due to the Roman side instead of the Greek, or more things along those lines instead of what you're saying is now the consensus already. Since 1-2 years ago when as far as I was aware there wasn't yet any specific consensus. Where did you read this?

Otherwise, do you take into account 504 Cora (Kore) or h47 Proserpina in any way if you're including h41 Hades as well? Orcus?

Persephone under a degree from my IC in 4th, Proserpina 17.58 R Aquarius. Pluto 7 Libra in 4th, 4 from Persephone, 1 sextile ASC. Orcus 26 Cancer conjunct Saturn, Cora 6 Cancer square Pluto. Trans-Proserpina 28.42 Libra conjunct Uranus, one square Saturn, 2 square Orcus. Hades just wide of a degree from SN. Ceres 8 Gem with name asteroid, Pomona, Varuna and more. Demeter 24 Taurus from what I recall. Pluto/Ceres midpoint conjunct ASC.

Currently more or less interested in a Cora-Sun person with their Pluto/Ceres conjunct their SN. My Proserpina 1,5 from their DC.

Coincidentally, I have Briede conjunct Cora (Groom 1 opposite them) and Groomsbridge 1-2 opposite Proserpina, since Ail or someone brought the Groom-theme up further above. McBride also 1 conjunct Cora so it's suddenly starting to seem more potentially relevant to the theme.

posted August 25, 2014 09:12 PM            

My Persephone opposite her Ceres 3
My H57 Proserpina sextile her Demeter 3
My Cora conjunct her Demeter 3
Her Cora trine my Ceres exact
Her Proserpina quintile my Ceres
Her Proserpina opposite my Demeter 4

Her Demeter square my Moon exact
My 26 Proserpina opposite her Moon 2
Her Ceres opposite my Sun 2

posted August 26, 2014 12:29 AM            

Kim Falconer views PERSEPHONE and PROSERPINA as a kind of before-and-after, too. I got that gist from Martha Lang-Wescott in our conversations YEARS ago as well.

posted August 26, 2014 06:41 AM            

Pluto/Proserpine DW in synastry, Pluto conjunct Proserpine (0) in Davison.

posted August 26, 2014 10:03 AM            

[/URL]

[/URL]

So beside Pluto, Proserpina and Ceres, these play a role:

DNA (Sappho, MUSA on 20 Libra too)
Chiron
EROS (Vertex, Sun/Moon-mp) DESTINN
CUPIDO
ATROPOS

posted August 26, 2014 10:34 AM            

[/URL]

[/URL]

includes:
Proserpina, Ceres, Demeter, Pluto

and additionally:

Mercury-MUSA
OSIRIS (c. CERES)
ISIS (c.DEMETER)
Chiron
ATROPOS (opp. ARTHUR-MERLIN)
AMOR (opp EROS)
Jupiter (Mars)
DESTINN

SPIRIT
DNA
Neptune
CUPIDO
ATLANTIS
PHOLUS

posted August 26, 2014 10:51 AM            

PROSERPINA 7 Aquarius / 21 Sagittarius
Pluto 21 Libra / 9 Libra
CERES 7 Aries / 9 Pisces
DEMETER 6 Gemini

DNA 20 Sag / 20 Libra
MUSA 9 Sag / 21 Libra
Chiron 9 Taurus / 20 Aries
EROS 8 Pisces / 20 Cancer
DESTINN 6 Libra / 23 Cancer
CUPIDO 21 Sag / 19 Leo
ATROPOS 10 Cancer / 19 Aquarius

ATLANTIS 20 Leo/ 8 Sag
Neptune 20 Sag / 9 Sag
Jupiter 10 Virgo / 11 Pisces
PHOLUS) 23 Pisces ( 6 Pisces

SPIRIT 19 Libra / 10 Cap
ISIS 9 Gemini / 8 Cap
OSIRIS 5 Aries / 7 Cap
Mars/Venus 11 Virgo / 6 Cap

ARTHUR / GUINEVERE 11 Cap / 10 Cap

posted August 26, 2014 11:10 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
I have Moon conjunct Persephone (0) in the natal, he has Mars conjunct Persephone (0).

Pluto/Proserpine DW in synastry, Pluto conjunct Proserpine (0) in Davison.

---

Oh, Lee, he's got MOON conjunct PERSEPHONE, 2°. (It's exactly opposite my nSUN.) I've often wondered what that's about.

I found a karmic pattern / skipped step with Cora. I wonder if that's linked? To the MOON-PERSEPHONE, that is.