posted April 11, 2015 08:50 PM            

I was inspired by Aubyanne and Lotis White's threads about the Vertex, that point known to give clues on your 'life-changing' and 'fated' events, or to be activated in the charts when such encounters take place.

Since we already have a North Node Chart (the Draconic Chart, NORTH NODE moved to 0° Aries) and an ASC Chart (the Huber House Chart, ASC moved to 0° Aries), I thought it would be interesting to try ... a Vertex Chart, using the same technique of course -- the VERTEX at 0°00' Aries and the ANTIVERTEX at 0°00' Libra. So, unless your VERTEX is exactly conjunct your NN or your ASC to the minute, you'll have to do the calculations by hand, as there is no such thing as a Vertex Chart on astro.com (well, at least that I know of).

My theory is that the Vertex Chart would be like a screenshot of your fated and life-changing experiences ; synastric aspects (Natal to Vertex or Vertex to Vertex) to its placements would add a Vertex vibe to the original interpretation of that aspect. Vertex composite charts calculated the same way would be equally meaningful in my opinion.

posted April 11, 2015 09:13 PM            

I myself was inspired by their threads and was just looking at Vertex Persona charts.. Comparing them in synastry, composites... Etc.. Oh and also made North Node persona charts. I'm thinking to compare it with Vertex persona charts..

Sorry didn't mean to hijack your thread but thought to share with you!

posted April 12, 2015 04:11 AM            

I was thinking that since the Antivertex indicates our preoccupations and how we ourselves (our hopes and expectations) contribute to our fate, perhaps we could use the Antivertex as zero Aries. The Vertex generally indicates how others, external events, and the unexpected contribute to our fate, so maybe we could use the Vertex as zero Libra.

posted April 12, 2015 02:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Somewhat luckily my VERTEX is a roundish number -- 00 AQU 44. So I'm gathering I'd be all right adding 59º '16 to each integer in my chart, given that it'd (essentially) bring my VERTEX to 00º ARI 00? (359º 60, to be exact -- or 29º PIS 60, which easily enough rounds to 00º ARI 00.)

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posted April 12, 2015 02:49 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by YellowGerbera:
Oh so cool that you started this thread!!!

I myself was inspired by their threads and was just looking at Vertex Persona charts.. Comparing them in synastry, composites... Etc.. Oh and also made North Node persona charts. I'm thinking to compare it with Vertex persona charts..

Sorry didn't mean to hijack your thread but thought to share with you!

Would love to see what everyone finds out!

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Hijack all you want

posted April 12, 2015 02:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Neptunian Venus:
This is a great idea!

Be right back with mine!

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posted April 12, 2015 02:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by midnightvenus:
Wow, if I got the numbers right, my Vertex Chart's NN is conjunct my Natal ASC by an orb of 0°45.

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Wow

posted April 12, 2015 02:59 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
Good idea!

I was thinking that since the Antivertex indicates our preoccupations and how we ourselves (our hopes and expectations) contribute to our fate, perhaps we could use the Antivertex as zero Aries. The Vertex generally indicates how others, external events, and the unexpected contribute to our fate, so maybe we could use the Vertex as zero Libra.

Or... We could make two charts. One with the Vertex at zero Aries, and the other with the Anitvertex at zero Aries, to get an image of how each one works.

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posted April 12, 2015 03:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Aunt Anomalia:
If Vertex at 0 Aries:
Vertex Uranus conjunct natal Aquarius Vertex exact and Vertex Pholus conjunct natal AV. How explosive is that?

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posted April 12, 2015 03:08 PM            

No, it's a very different calculation. But one that seems, again, wholly logical. Renzo Baldini years ago called it 'the soul's Ascendant', after all -- which would explain why such profound connexions can be attributed to it; especially when there's an ASC-VERTEX conjunction. In his 1998 book, he suggests the construction of the Vertex Chart, calling it 'the chart of the subconscious'. But, really, it almost seems as if it could be more 'the chart of the soul' than the Draconic. Perhaps the Draco is the karma-encumbered 'soul chart'. Curious how the Vertex Chart has not been discussed much in western astrology, and seems more common in Italian, or other European astrological circles.

Maybe its time has come.

posted April 12, 2015 05:44 PM            

It looks very fated, karmic meetings/relationships are bound to happen, suitable for a Balsamic Moon, and it has, as expected, a very strong relationship emphasis.
Markers for fated and life changing meetings/relationships and karma in general: Sun conj Karma exact in the 12th house, for Pisces DSC; DSC ruler Neptune on IC; DSC conj Pholus; the Cardinal Cross connected to 2 Thor's Hammers, involving Juno with Saturn and Moon and other two giants, plus Chiron and first degree Union; Venus conj chart ruler and Priapus on ASC, Mars 8th ruler on MC with Ceres, Cupido in the 1st.

Anything else captures your attention?

Any insight on Neptune/Psyche perfect opp sitting on IC/MC axis?

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

LeeLoo's Esotericorner

posted April 12, 2015 05:56 PM            

18º SAG 30 | SUN
23º CAP 13 | MOON
09º SCO 59 | ASCENDANT*
13º CAP 27 | MERC
07º SCO 52 | VENUS
29º CAP 22 | MARS
17º LIB 19 | NNODE
16º CAN 22 | CHIRON

Of note:

10º VIR 26 | TISIPHONE
14º AQU 50 | VALENTINE
10º CAP 04 | EROS
19º LEO 05 | PSYCHE
26º LIB 35 | ISIS
17º LIB 56 | OSIRIS
03º CAP 13 | KARMA
21º PIS 02 | ALICE
11º SCO 12 | MADHATTER

* 'But, Mommy, you don't understand; I CAN'T have been born then, because I'm a Scorpio rising. I KNOW IT!'

That was me from about age 9 until 11, when I begrudgingly came to accept that PLUTO was not my chartruler, but MERC ... in Scorpio, but, hey. It's curious now, that I'm considering how the much younger me may have instead been operating from the chart that was more present to me, as I was growing into the tropical.

Hmmmm.

As to the rest, it's definitely starting to make sense; to begin to gel. I'm beginning to see how this makes the most sense as the 'soul' chart. It's the deepest influences, with which we'd expect to get some rather astounding hits with the natal -- and I can see that I will.

This may be a missing piece of the puzzle in the greater scheme, when taken like the Draconic chart, instead showing our soul's greater needs, longings, or even preoccupation. It may be tremendously useful in helping us to better understand our soul connexions, as well as where it is we're trying to go.

So would synastries that are stronger at the Vertex level be driving us further from our soul's evolution, as we're using the tropical influences to get ultimately where we're trying to go? Would these, in essence, be a bit SNODE-oriented, with a definite Draconic feel in the sense of 'this is the soul's chart'.

I'm going to have to consider this more in-depth. Thus far what I'm finding are basic influences to which we return. Certain aspects are bringing me to agree with Baldini's 'chart of the soul' interpretation, which, in turn, has me considering the Draconic to be more karmically-influenced, yet again.

And yet, the Vertex Chart seems to be showing some VERY clear karmic impact when viewed with the tropical and in light of the sidereal. I'm going to have to think on exactly how they all come together. At present, I'm seeing it like so:

VERTEX: The chart of the soul's influence via the present lifeline. Can reveal strong soul connexions and fated events, encounters, relationships, as well as challenges. These are not the same as karmic. A 'fated' influence has a soul-driven impact contained within it. These may have been created as a result of karma, or they may be merely soul-driven as the best means of attaining the soul's mission via present circumstances (tropical).

TROPICAL: The chart of the present lifeline; traits and circumstances that must be, or are helpful to develop, to attain the soul's purpose (Vertex?).

DRACO: Similar to the D30. Karmic snapshot of the individual's culmination of experiences across ALL lifelines up to this point. Can reveal outstanding soul contracts, influences that cross multiple lifelines (Draco-to-Draco) or show how and where we need to develop (via the tropical) to fulfill the soul's mission and resolve karmic debt.

SIDEREAL: Similar to the D60. Outstanding karma with a focus upon the most predominant lifeline (from where the most karma was amassed). Debts, as well as gifts. Our basic soul's influence viewed via the lens of our most 'salient' lifeline (through which we incurred the karma we're trying to resolve now, in the present lifeline).

But it's all a work in progress, and this one will take some time. I had it all sorted in regards to the tropical, Draco, and sidereal, but something DID feel like it was missing.

posted April 12, 2015 06:22 PM            

Vertex chart - Sun 19 Aqua, Moon 9 Sag, Mercury 5 Aqua, Venus 14 Pisces
Vertex persona - Sun 28 Aqua, Moon 18 Sag, Mercury 5 Aqua, Venus 13 Pisces

If I was born a minute earlier than I have my TOB set, the ASCs in both charts are conjunct by around 1 deg.

posted April 12, 2015 06:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Wonderful idea, Peluches! I don't have the time to calculate the Vertex chart now, but I wanted to mention there's also the option to study the Vertex persona, to see important/turning point/meetings/events in someone's life in relation to the Vertex position in the natal chart: mine is in Leo 7th house, so I expect the Vertex Persona to give a detailed explanation about what this position means in my case. My natal Vertex conjuncts Amor by 2 deg. and this is my Vertex Persona:

It looks very fated, karmic meetings/relationships are bound to happen, suitable for a Balsamic Moon, and it has, as expected, a very strong relationship emphasis.
Markers for fated and life changing meetings/relationships and karma in general: Sun conj Karma exact in the 12th house, for Pisces DSC; DSC ruler Neptune on IC; DSC conj Pholus; the Cardinal Cross connected to 2 Thor's Hammers, involving Juno with Saturn and Moon and other two giants, plus Chiron and first degree Union; Venus conj chart ruler and Priapus on ASC, Mars 8th ruler on MC with Ceres, Cupido in the 1st.

Anything else captures your attention?

Any insight on Neptune/Psyche perfect opp sitting on IC/MC axis?

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posted April 12, 2015 07:05 PM            

Vertex Chart

Scorpio ASC 25°
Virgo Sun 11°
Gemini Moon 10°
Leo Mercury 15°
Libra Venus 23°
Virgo Mars 15°

Vertex Persona

posted April 12, 2015 07:44 PM            

I got the gist by having an easily calculable point (00 AQU moving 60 degrees).

posted April 12, 2015 08:30 PM            

The Planets in the Draconic Chart fall on the same degrees of the houses as in the natal.
My natal Venus falls on 6° of Aries, my 11H ends at 8°.
My VC Venus falls on 23°, my VC 11H ends at 25°.
So my Venus falls on the 28° degree of the 11H, whether it's in the Natal, Draconic or Vertex chart.

posted April 12, 2015 08:33 PM            

Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for your beautiful replies.

Strange thing, I was always a little sceptic when it came to calling the Draconic Chart 'the chart of the soul'. The word 'soul', although it obviously relates to the Nodes, always seemed to me like a beautiful, rich, flowing word, with a dominant of gold (the 's' is gold and has a bigger influence on the overall color as it's the first letter), related to its (almost) blinding light coming out from it. Even the French for it, âme, sounds very delicate. And that doesn't go at all with the word 'draconic'. Draconic sounds strong, powerful, harsh almost, and relates perfectly with the idea of 'outstanding karmic debts'.

As to how to calculate the Vertex chart, I would do the following :

Cyril's nVERTEX is at 18° SCO 36', so a quick mental subtraction from 30°00' leaves us with 11°24' to get to 0°00' of the next sign (in this case, 0° SAG 00'). Then, you just have to count the number of signs left to get to 0° ARI 00', which is four here. So, altogether, instead of adding big figures that could lead to mistakes -- like 131°24' in this case (4 x 30 + 11.24) -- to the natal placements, we simply add 11°24' and move four signs forward. I know, I know, I didn't find a better way.

Still, it works.

posted April 12, 2015 08:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by midnightvenus:
My natal Venus falls on 6� of Aries, my 11H ends at 8�.
My VC Venus falls on 23�, my VC 11H ends at 25�.
So my Venus falls on the 28� degree of the 11H

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