posted September 20, 2015 07:34 AM            

My Sootyo parallel his psyche
Contraparallel his venus and Valentine
Tightly trine his alma, saturn and neptune
Quincunx his uranus exact
Opposite his pluto

In contrast his sootyo conjunct my VTX EXACT!
Conjunct my psyche exact
Conjunct and parallel my uranus
Contraparallel my saturn
Parallel my vesta
Opposite my sun

posted September 20, 2015 08:46 AM              

here is a list
http://sasstrology.com/2011/03/black-hole-mars-scary-sexy.html

Personally I would only consider conjunctions - seriously what is the sense in the other aspects with a black hole, either someting is on it or not - similiar to fixed stars.

And only within 1 degree max - either it`s there or it is not.

For a synastry aspect, I suppose a planet in closish but not exact conjunction with another planet might get pulled in, if that other planet is tied to that black hole.

As for Sootyo and Soomana, I noticed the pattern with other souls that have been very significant for my development.

posted September 20, 2015 09:01 AM              

Me:
Sootyio: 10 Taurus
Soomana: 25 Sag

P1:
Sootyio: 12 Taurus
Soomana: 26 Taurus

A:
Sootyo: 14 Gemini
Soomana: 8 Scorpio

J:
Sootyo: 28 Scorpio
Soomana: 9 Taurus

The thing that was most notable to me however was how Mr Sag did NOT fit into that theme! lol

his Sootyo: 15 Cancer
his Soomana: 7 Aries

I did not include the declinations back then, so doing it now.

Me:
Sootyo: 5.41 N
Soomana: 28.10 S (18.43 S)

P1:
Sootyo: 10.24 N
Soomana: 23.50N

A:
Sootyo: 8.39 N
Soomana: 15.19 S

J:
Sootyo: 15.35 S
Soomana: 22.25 N

Mr Sag:
Sootyo: 7.45 N
Soomana: 6.32 N

Nothing really outstanding (except perhaps the cross-connection between A and J. ), however Mr Sag`s Soomana is parallel my Sootyo, albeit pretty widish.

Gabby,

posted September 20, 2015 10:41 AM            

conjunctions:
Sun, 1
Moon, 0
Mercury, 1 (GC)
Venus, 0
IC, 0
SN, 0

posted September 20, 2015 11:11 AM            

Is there any way we can come up with a more or less unanimous checklist of things needed for a TF relationship?

Not sure how many markers I have with my ex-soulmate, but when we used to talk about being one person in two bodies, we meant that sincerely.

You know, and in pictures, we would be across the room from each other but captured making the same exact face, having the same reaction to something...does that count? Or do I need asteroid proof?

posted September 20, 2015 11:22 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aunt Anomalia:
Another black hole weirdo here.
conjunctions:
Sun, 1

---

^^ Aw, let's share it!

I've also got my Venus on a black hole (1* orb) not that I even needed to be told that. I mean, doesn't love life say it all.

posted September 20, 2015 11:26 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

Gabby,

thank you for the background of Nerthus and Njord.

---

posted September 20, 2015 11:35 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
I've just scanned the thread.

Is there any way we can come up with a more or less unanimous checklist of things needed for a TF relationship?

Not sure how many markers I have with my ex-soulmate, but when we used to talk about being one person in two bodies, we meant that sincerely.

You know, and in pictures, we would be across the room from each other but captured making the same exact face, having the same reaction to something...does that count? Or do I need asteroid proof?

I guess he's not my Twin, but between ourselves, that was our mutually agreed-upon truth.

---

I would stick with the original markers, Sun/Moon, Pluto/Venus, Mars/Venus, Psyche/Eros/Amor/Cupido(s),
Pluto/Persephone/Proserpina, Jupiter/Juno/Themis, Uranus/Gaea, Saturn/Rhea, Isis/Osiris, Siva/Kaali/Parvarti....etc

Soul pairing-
Psyche(16) and Alma(390) both words mean soul but Psyche is more masculine and Alma is the feminine part of the soul, yin/yang.

Twin couple-Nerthus 601/ Njord 4213

Sootiyo is Hopi for Star Boy
Soomana is Hopi for Star Girl
2432 Soomana
2433 Sootiyao

Heres a link with the numbers and pairings... http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum28/HTML/002361.html

Although I think I need to reorganize the thread or do another one that identifies the specific TF pairings better.

posted September 20, 2015 12:15 PM              

I can`t even tell you how refreshing and CLEAR that felt to me.
The simplicity was amazing!

Doesn`t say anything about twin-ship, of course, but that was not my intention anyway.

However I WAS surprised to find a pretty clear and general picture to emerge.

I used these aspects:
conjunction, opposition, square, trine (5 degrees)
sextile, quinkunx (3 degrees)
parallel, contraparallel (1 degree)

and no not a single of the other minor aspects!

I eleminated EVERYTHING except Sun, Moon, Saturn, Venus, Mars plus Mercury, Jupiter and ASC, MC, Vertex, Nodes.

I did not even really delve into the angle business, except for one observation that should have been obvious from the beginning.

What was there in ALL the synastries, no exception so far, granted I just was checking about 10-12 synastries (did not count to be honest), was this:

1) Sun-Moon, Moon-Saturn, Venus-Mars
either a direct aspect between the pairs
OR
an aspect bridged through a catalyst-planet and often it was actually an angle or the nodal axis

That I set out to figure out.

But what I noticed, too, was more or less incidental

2) an aspect of either Sun-Venus or Moon-Mars

3) Saturn in aspect to Venus and/or Mars

(naturally Saturn-Sun happens pretty often too, but have nto checked if it was there in every synastry, and even if not, Moon-Saturn was there most of the time)

Those were true for every synastry.

Maybe my parameters were too wide, but I still found that interesting.

And as I said so refreshing to ONLY look at the personal planets for once. lol

Oh the other observation that should have been obvious all along, ASC is of course representative of Earth in our charts (as it the point where the celestial sphere meets the ground on earth and starts the cross of matter) -

for a relationship to become tangible and existent there should be a merging point with the ASC-DESC-axis (or as I suspect IC-MC as well) - so a conjunction or parallel to at least one angple. Something has to bring the potential, as being painted through the planetary pictures in the sky, into manifestation after all.

posted September 20, 2015 12:21 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Gabby,

there is nothing really masculine about Psyche; her masculine counterpart is Eros/Cupido.

---

Not referring to the "Psyche" in the way of the mythology of Eros/Psyche
It's the definition according to the psychology of the soul...what psyche represents as the soul versus what alma represents as the soul. These are yin/yang counterparts of the soul.

I'm looking for the book I read this in, I think it's in my garage...but what I'm referring to the soul broken down into parts, Psyche is considered the energy of the drive soul, while Alma represents the heart and nurturing side of the soul.

Alma was used classically in connotation as a way to reflect the traditional female roles in providing nurture,[2] following its derivation from its Latin root.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alma_(given_name)

Here's Platos version of the same concept I'm talking about.

"Drawing on the words of his teacher Socrates, Plato considered the psyche to be the essence of a person, being that which decides how we behave. He considered this essence to be an incorporeal, eternal occupant of our being. Socrates says that even after death, the soul exists and is able to think. He believed that as bodies die, the soul is continually reborn in subsequent bodies and Plato believed this as well; however, he thought that only one part of the soul was immortal (logos). The Platonic soul consists of three parts:

the logos, or logistikon (mind, nous, or reason)
the thymos, or thumetikon (emotion, spiritedness, or masculine)
the eros, or epithumetikon (appetitive, desire, or feminine)
The parts are located in different regions of the body:

posted September 20, 2015 12:55 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by tgem:
I've definitely got all the major soulmate pairings for sure: Isis/Osiris, eros/psyche etc.

---

Really? Are they conjunctions?

posted September 20, 2015 01:19 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
What your saying regarding this person and how you would have the same facial expression at the same time I had that also with my TF, we also had strange things like he looked so much like my brother, or my family I didn't notice it until my family met him and everyone commented in that. Then our hands were exactly alike except his were bigger. Same lines on our palms, same finger shape, nail beds..everything it was like we had the same hands. There was a lot of stuff like that.

---

Oh god...yes, things like that.

My ex didn't look like my brother in the face but was built the same way.

So my brother gave my ex some of his clothes, and even after we stopped talking, my ex would come into class in my brother's clothes and sit right next to me, just to drive me up a wall.

posted September 20, 2015 01:24 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
Is there any way we can come up with a more or less unanimous checklist of things needed for a TF relationship?

---

We did, but it failed. It failed to the point where iQ was considering 'triplet flames' as a possible explanation, because it was so clear that my 'twin' is actually my karmic soulmate, and my actual twin and I just don't have the whizzbang astrology that all of these proposed twin flame couples do.

You can imagine how DEEPLY upsetting that is. So, we considered all possibilities. Were we wrong? Are we wrong?

Is it possible that I'm really just a disenfranchised twin and all my twin (karmic soulmate) and I were here to do was decide that we could never be together because he's too damaged and I've learnt to love myself and be able to love others? But we also both decided that's essentially not the purpose of the twin flame relationship here on Earth.

Meanwhile, I began having a 'twin flame relationship' with my boyfriend, presuming he was a very high level soulmate or -- God knows, something that I've never experienced before; maybe a whole new category? -- without even bothering with the labels. And, after a year, I contacted iQ again and said, 'so, we're experiencing all of the things that are the bailiwick of twin flames exclusively, and I'm becoming very confused.'

That's when I began, over a series of several emails across a few weeks, told him the whole story. Suddenly, so much didn't add up. Everything was deeply indicative of our being twin flames -- but the astrology. He instead took everything else into account, and decided we're just a flat out anomaly.

There's zero doubt in his mind that we're twins -- and that the man with whom I have phenomenally rare astrology with, is actually my karmic soulmate. But going from the astrology alone, you're going to arrive at the opposite conclusion.

See, with my karmic soulmate, we have EVERYTHING. Hell, I remember the reason WHY I even began approaching the topic was that I plugged in the 'soulmate pairings' and was stunned to find we had all three that were currently known.

But then they ARE soulmate pairings, so, why not? My karmic soulmate and I are, after all, soulmates.

So, I've been thinking, for a while now, we need a stricter, much, much more complex measure and methodology if we're going to apply astrology to identification of twin flames.

It's very easy to produce a false positive, and misleading someone -- well, it's tough. Ultimately, I'm glad that it went the way it did. I feel as my karmic soulmate and I planned this, frankly. He was going to take me to the end of this particular road, and then -- rather than outright hand me off to my twin, create a circumstance in which I had the chance to finally become ready for such a relationship.

It was within 24 hours, completely independently, that a 'light' suddenly went off for him (my twin), and we ended up in that powerful conversation where he admitted how his love for me had never waned -- he was merely being respectful and letting me sort out what was needed -- and we began to seriously reconsider getting back together. And, about eight months later, we had.

But we're the anomaly -- so far.

How many of us are, however? I completely misidentified my parents as twin flames -- despite the mounds of evidence since the very beginning -- because they didn't have the astrology.

Which just brings me back to the original question.

How many of us (twin flames) just don't have what's currently determined to be 'twin flame astrology'?

Shouldn't we, therefore, be studying us ACTUAL twin flames -- as a control -- rather than theorising using what we hypothesise SHOULD be the case? In other words, shouldn't we NOT be going by the astrology to determine who are twin flames? Rather, shouldn't we be studying the astrology of ACTUAL twins to determine the ACTUAL patterns and commonalities?

Especially when we're finding the methodology we've been using is NOT guaranteed? And, in the case of actual twin flames -- even wrong?

My parents, for example, have an amazing relationship of CHIRON and CHARIKLO. Dual-conjunctions in synastry, and an exact conjunction in composite. AMAZING! So, so rare. No one else on Earth will have this unless they are astro-twins of my parents.

Now, I get that it looked like my karmic soulmate and I also shared such things -- at first glance. But we don't. Not like THAT.

Perhaps, my twin and I actually do, and it's just yet to be discovered.

Did we ever think of the universe being a hologramme at the creation of Newton's first laws? Hell, no. But everything has proved it thus far to be the truth. We merely are able to apply Newtonian physics BECAUSE we are inside of a closed system, which operates BY these laws. But we exist in a MUCH larger system, which operates by DIFFERENT ones.

The 'system' in which we're operating is NOT closed, guys; nor is it small. It's the most vast, expansive and incredible system we can imagine.

We NEED to break outside of the box. Twin flames are the very epitome of 'outside the box'. We're not going to find the answers inside of it. We have to look deeper, further, and beyond.

posted September 20, 2015 01:29 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
What your saying regarding this person and how you would have the same facial expression at the same time I had that also with my TF, we also had strange things like he looked so much like my brother, or my family I didn't notice it until my family met him and everyone commented in that. Then our hands were exactly alike except his were bigger. Same lines on our palms, same finger shape, nail beds..everything it was like we had the same hands. There was a lot of stuff like that.

---

And that's my karmic soulmate. To a 'T'. So, you can imagine my TOTAL confusion in this area.

Over time, I've come to accept that it's just an indicator of being extremely close soul-family. What I refer to as 'my fraternal twin brother'. We both came from the same stuff, and there we are.

My twin, on the other hand, is akin to a hermaphrodite born with two distinct personalities. We're the same. There are no 'similarities' insofar as we are the same energy that oscillates its expression. There's no gradation. It's just the same frequency of operation.

It was through this understanding that I was, actually, able to relate more effectively with both my twin and my karmic soulmate.

Now, Gabby, I'm not saying your having the same experience that I've had with my karmic soulmate, but with your twin, discounts that he's your twin. I'm merely saying it shouldn't be taken as a defining feature, as it can be experienced in extremely close soul-family.

In fact, I share this with my two nearest soul-sisters, too. We have an incredible empathic link, too. Two of us look alike, except that she's a blue-eyed blonde and I'm a brown-eyed brunette, but we could be sisters for how much we look alike in facial features, mannerism, and even our voices have the same timbre. The other is a whole other 'version' of me, (and she's her soul-sister, too) to whom I feel more closely related at our core. Same personality, a lot of the same life choices; we have the same demeanor. The blonde is the baby, though; we're the older sisters.

Truthfully, I'm the oldest, born in October, with the blonde in November, and the other brunette in December. Oh, hey, you guys actually know her -- Blind writer. For example, we're both astrologers -- independently -- but the blonde isn't -- though she's always been very naturally psychic. It's through Blind writer that I received the information about Guardian Soulmates, actually. She independently confirmed it. We do that a lot with each other.

posted September 20, 2015 01:43 PM            

I certainly wasn't. And when I met him, I couldn't even process what I was seeing. I thank God I had the framework of the show, because without it, I don't know what I would've done. Make up some excuse to get his card? So we wouldn't lose touch?

Would I have ever had the need to tell anyone, though, ever? If he wasn't part of a story? I shared the story proudly; he's just a character. But if it was ever known that he was so much more than a character -- a weird, repeating theme across my adolescence -- I wouldn't have said a word. No one would ever know. It've been locked inside my head.

But I became a writer. It became a story. Some knew the truth -- very close friends. And then, when they met him, they knew.

posted September 20, 2015 01:51 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I used these aspects:
conjunction, opposition, square, trine (5 degrees)
sextile, quinkunx (3 degrees)
parallel, contraparallel (1 degree)

...

I eleminated EVERYTHING except Sun, Moon, Saturn, Venus, Mars plus Mercury, Jupiter and ASC, MC, Vertex, Nodes.

...
What was there in ALL the synastries, no exception so far, granted I just was checking about 10-12 synastries (did not count to be honest), was this...

---

1) Sun-Moon, Moon-Saturn, Venus-Mars
either a direct aspect between the pairs
OR
an aspect bridged through a catalyst-planet and often it was actually an angle or the nodal axis

Do you mean all of these must be present, as a set?

With my ex-soulmate (TF?):

Sun trine sun
His sun opposing my moon
His moon possibly trine my sun
My Mars trine his Mars and Venus
My Saturn possibly squaring his moon
My Saturn squaring his nodal axis (4)
His Saturn parallel my nodal axis, .01 orb

We also have sun square Mars DW.

2) an aspect of either Sun-Venus or Moon-Mars

His Venus square my sun
His Mars on the solstice point of my moon, if that counts?

3) Saturn in aspect to Venus and/or Mars

Nothing major. My Saturn is quintile his Mars though (72 degrees exactly.) His Saturn widely sextile my Mars, if 3.55 orb counts. Somehow I think it doesn't...

EDIT: His Saturn trine my Venus, 5.29 orb.

(naturally Saturn-Sun happens pretty often too, but have nto checked if it was there in every synastry, and even if not, Moon-Saturn was there most of the time)

Nothing here.

But you mentioned Jupiter aspects so I will throw in some parallels:

His Mars 4.32 S
His Venus 4.34 S
My Jupiter 5.07 N

My Venus 19.24 S
His Jupiter 19.18 N

---

posted September 20, 2015 01:52 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Gabby,

there is nothing really masculine about Psyche; her masculine counterpart is Eros/Cupido.

---

posted September 20, 2015 02:00 PM            

Thank you, I loved reading your thoughts. Best wishes exploring the markers for TFs!

Not sure what I'll find when I research the asteroids with this ex.

posted September 20, 2015 02:11 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
Keeping in mind this is a failed relationship.

---

posted September 20, 2015 02:28 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:
Which, in and of itself, is suspect.

---

Yep.

Although as I'm always saying, but have to repeat in case you haven't read it before, in our last conversation ever, he was telling me about how unbreakable our bond was and "You could be 40 years old, married to someone else, with children, thinking you're life is all set, but I'll come around and things will be the exact same between us."

Something like that.

And I said F*** YOU and he taunted me with,
"You can't deny it."

I said "Sure I can!"

And he said, "Wait and see."

posted September 20, 2015 02:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
Thanks, Gabby! I ought to research that. I'm a little sick of talking about this ex, but what appeals to me is seeing how we measure up, in astrological terms.

Oh god...yes, things like that.

My ex didn't look like my brother in the face but was built the same way.

So my brother gave my ex some of his clothes, and even after we stopped talking, my ex would come into class in my brother's clothes and sit right next to me, just to drive me up a wall.

And it was everything...people were always commenting on it...we just had this energy between us that was unusual.

---

posted September 20, 2015 02:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
[BI just know that nothing changes the fact that my experience with him was something phenomenal, and I don't have the words for it.[/B]

---

That is the key, right there. Nothing should ever diminish the experiences we've had with these people, and labelling it can sometimes do a greater disservice than anything. That's why I find myself in a catch-22. On the one hand, I'm supposed to find my twin flame, yet, on the other, all signs point to this man being something so otherworldly in the way that our 'relationship' has been for the past 15 years (or more) that I'm not sure what else fits.

And, I appreciate that, Faith. It's a sticky wicket; a real balancing act. I want to find answers, but not discount (or contribute) to what could cause others to discount their experiences when it doesn't 'match up'.