posted March 17, 2016 03:02 PM            

An unabashed expression of any 12th house planet is truly a force to behold and the realization of an incredible reservoir of energy which can go to the betterment of the collective. Thus it erupts into the 11th where it fulfills promises and marks the consolidation of energy we see in the 10th house with its blossoming energy.

Here is the Selflessness of the Sun which begets service (6th house) from the earth; the earth in the 6th is soaking up the solar energy from the 12th and photosynthesis is perfected into form with the setting Sun.

Cause yeah the 12th house planets are indeed in the Sun's rays at the rising of the day, been thinking about this too... and it's funny how the personal houses are actually below the horizon... everything plays out in the external world up over the horizon and i am really tripping out reading this thread thinking about it all. Very incredible insights here.

My Jupiter falls in my friend's 12th and I definitely kinda blow up all the stuff there so that it's almost uncomfortably visible. It can be a very spiritual overlay. But it has the other qualities of Jupiter too. We have a 12th house stellium in composite including the sun and moon and mercury--moon being nearest the ascendant. Hiis Pluto falls in my 12th 3 degrees from my ascendant... normally i think about his Saturn which is 0'07 from my ascendant on the 12th house side. But pluto is obviously potent and really digs up my stuff for examination. It isn't always easy that's for sure...

Of course I've been in a series of relationships with people born in 83 and have different relationships with all of them. Interestingly my dear friend has her Saturn just over my ascendant in my 1st.. My boyfriends of the past several years have had them just in my 12th and the difference is palpable.. this one being closest to my ascendant, yet still on the 12th house side, makes the pressure on me particularly intense...

posted March 17, 2016 03:21 PM            

In the composite we have Venus and Moon in the 12th house (6 degrees apart), and Moon is very widely conjunct ASC (8°27) probably too wide to be relevant in this regard, but what intrigued me was the midpoint picture of

Moon conjunct Venus/ASC 0°47, which means that Moon is pretty right in the middle between 12th house Venus and ASC though in 12th house herself.

And speaking of the East-point in another thread, I just realized our East point in composite is on 16°05 Aquarius (conjunct Pallas on 16°45 Aquarius, and also conjunct my natal Moon on 17°06 Aquarius)

And ASC is conjunct Venus/EP 0°16
so in a way you could say our Venus in 12th house (who also disposits the North Node and IC) and the East Point are mirrored through the ASC, the line that separates day and night, light and darkness. It intrigues me even though I have no idea what it could mean. lol

posted March 18, 2016 04:26 AM            

Both people are fundamentally pessimists by nature so maybe that accounts for that.

posted March 18, 2016 06:44 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spongebob:
The examples of this that I can think of involved people assuming they knew exactly what i was thinking and feeling and why, but they were totally off. Usually they interpreted me negatively all the time whether it was assuming that I was in a perpetual state of depression or that I had some kinda sinister plot going .

Both people are fundamentally pessimists by nature so maybe that accounts for that.

Their planets and or angles fell in my twelfth house.

---

Honestly, and with no hard feelings, I hope, you do project negative energies in most of your posts during this stage you're in, so it is possible this is something you don't acknowledge about yourself, considering the 12th house is exactly that place where we're not aware of things, and it takes an element to pass by there (the light of the sun, and someone else's energy can play this role too) for us to experience awareness.

In fact, the whole principle of awareness related to 12th house symbolism as the house of the rising sun implies a principle similar to the rune Dagaz, that it has to be the maximum darkness for the light to make a difference.

"Dagez means daylight, and represents divine light. This rune generally refers to dawn (the initial sparking of energy) or to midday (the climax of energy). Both dawn and midday are symbolic of change, but unlike the changes in the perpetual circle of the year which are slow and subtle, the changes over a day are much faster and more dramatic. The breaking of a new day is symbolic of the rapid illumination of dismal circumstances, and is suggestive of Satori. Be careful - although this rune generally suggests a positive change, the symbology of a peaking point suggests that there must be a change downward as well. Fortunately for some, this rune is cyclic and irreversible, and so permanence is not promised - the only thing you can be sure of is an exciting ride."

Therefore, the 12th is a place where we experience:

- being oblivious/unaware of reality/ourselves
- unconscious patterns
- lost memories
- past life regression phenomena
- dreams and visions
- all kinds of repressions
- fears of many kinds
- hopelessness
- escapism
- things we want to keep secret, closed or just for ourselves

That would be a "darker" side of the 12th, and all houses have their own, equally.

What happens when someone has 12th house planets in their natal is that they may experience a Sleeping Beauty syndrome, which is in fact kind of nice, there is a dormant, or lack of awareness about these planets that will lead to a moment of awakening, just like the principle of dawn. You can't have the dawn without this previous sleep/darkness, as explained in the principle of Dagaz.
The awakening can be a personal process, or it can be triggered by someone else. And usually people overlaying this house do trigger this process of awakening, which may have a painful, surprising or uncomfortable side at first.

BTW, Satori is "seeing through, perceiving one's true nature"
------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 18, 2016 08:10 AM            

thanks for that insightful post.

As I mentioned I have Mars in 12th house (conj. ASC) (I also have Amor and Valentine in 12th house). It seems like others could always see the argumentative and assertive side in me more than I did. my brother actually pointed it out once, when we did our enneagrams (yes, my little bro and me are weird like that, doing psycho-games together ), and it completely surprised me that he saw me as assertive, because I felt I was anything but!
BTW his Moon-Jupiter-Uranus-conjunction is from 9-11 Sag, on my NN and widely conjunct my 12th house Mars (5 Sag), but from 1st house. Pretty sure he was right.

also when I first met Mr Sag sa uranus was conjunct my n Mars. I always wondered about what that astro-phenomen could mean, but maybe that was some sort of "awakening moment" for me.

Interestingly his Uranus occupies my 12th house and is near the cusp actually, so I guess somehow it makes sense that I met a men with Uranus in my 12th while my own sa Uranus was conjunct my nMars. Of course there are hundreds of men with Uranus in my 12th house, so I guess there must have been something more personal or specific attached to that than simply that generational interplay.

posted March 18, 2016 11:24 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Honestly, and with no hard feelings, I hope, you do project negative energies in most of your posts during this stage you're in, so it is possible this is something you don't acknowledge about yourself, considering the 12th house is exactly that place where we're not aware of things, and it takes an element to pass by there (the light of the sun, and someone else's energy can play this role too) for us to experience awareness.

In fact, the whole principle of awareness related to 12th house symbolism as the house of the rising sun implies a principle similar to the rune Dagaz, that it has to be the maximum darkness for the light to make a difference.

"Dagez means daylight, and represents divine light. This rune generally refers to dawn (the initial sparking of energy) or to midday (the climax of energy). Both dawn and midday are symbolic of change, but unlike the changes in the perpetual circle of the year which are slow and subtle, the changes over a day are much faster and more dramatic. The breaking of a new day is symbolic of the rapid illumination of dismal circumstances, and is suggestive of Satori. Be careful - although this rune generally suggests a positive change, the symbology of a peaking point suggests that there must be a change downward as well. Fortunately for some, this rune is cyclic and irreversible, and so permanence is not promised - the only thing you can be sure of is an exciting ride."

Therefore, the 12th is a place where we experience:

- being oblivious/unaware of reality/ourselves
- unconscious patterns
- lost memories
- past life regression phenomena
- dreams and visions
- all kinds of repressions
- fears of many kinds
- hopelessness
- escapism
- things we want to keep secret, closed or just for ourselves

That would be a "darker" side of the 12th, and all houses have their own, equally.

What happens when someone has 12th house planets in their natal is that they may experience a Sleeping Beauty syndrome, which is in fact kind of nice, there is a dormant, or lack of awareness about these planets that will lead to a moment of awakening, just like the principle of dawn. You can't have the dawn without this previous sleep/darkness, as explained in the principle of Dagaz.
The awakening can be a personal process, or it can be triggered by someone else. And usually people overlaying this house do trigger this process of awakening, which may have a painful, surprising or uncomfortable side at first.

BTW, Satori is "seeing through, perceiving one's true nature"

---

I'll admit right now that I didn't read beyond the first couple lines of this - I have to read alot for school, and so when I come on here the last thing I want to do is read a wall of text. It's not personal - this is standard procedure with me for everybody. So I can't really comment on anything beyond the first couple of lines.

That aside, most adults would tell you it's irrational to assume you know someone's character based off a couple posts on the internet so what do you want me to say? I have no comment on that, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other. You're certainly entitled to think what you want though.

I will say here though in the spirit of full disclosure, that you do appear to be biased in that you really don't take anyone disagreeing with you, very well at all. It's not a far reach to think that you're inclined to question the character of everyone who has their own views that are different from yours. That's perfectly fine, but again, it doesn't affect me or my real life in any way.

posted March 18, 2016 12:04 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Quod erat demonstrandum.

---

I was about to answer, but then again "Least said sooner mended." (I don't know if that's a suitable translation of one of my homeland's proverbs, but that's what I found in wiki)

So I agree.

posted March 19, 2016 09:52 AM            

no cap, no Virgo, but she had Mars in Sag conjunct his DESC-ruler Mercury (actually her Mars in Sag is conjunct mine, and funny enough another ex of his had Mars at approximately the same area. lol)

posted March 19, 2016 10:52 AM            

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted March 20, 2016 09:20 AM            

thinking about the sign of the 12 house aries, I am very impulsive and can be very aggresive (my unduing???) i have jeopardize jobs because of that... other than my mars in cancer conjunct sun gives some arian quality, but it is early cancer though.

when people put planets on my 12 someone Lotis mentioned the compassion side. I have experienced that with people putting planets there (my ex-husban moon, one ex-venus, a good friend venus-mars, a good friend mercury-venus) what i have noticed is that people who put Mars on my 12 are perceived by me a dangerous and to be wary of. curious that the ruler of 12 is mars and i have not found same feeling with the other planets (not with moon or venus) with moon and venus I tend to reveal a lot of myself with less censure and it feels safe.

three people i have met who put their mars on my 12 have betrayed me. I wonder once i do more shadow work what this say about my unaware self. what is i am not seing? are they showing martian characteristics I down own? I am not sure yet. since I am a child i was very agresive child. however, I am not competitive as I prefer to work in cooperation (my sun conjunct venus as well) wondering if this is the explanation. I denied my competitive drive and project it. I dont know. I know other factors in my chart point that I work better in cooperation (libra in 6th) maybe i just need to disect a little bit more on the mars archetype and find out what is what these people bring to me.. these hidden enemies of my mine...

great article Lotis

posted April 02, 2016 07:13 PM            

Thanks to venus2tinkerbell for directing me here.

Oh if only there were more time in the day, to read and comment, read and comment. I'm so interested in this.

I have a complicated relationship with Cancers. I think I've said this before, they feel to me like the person I would actually be, if I said more of what I felt. My Cancer friends shock the hell out of me...it's pretty exciting, usually. But they challenge all my filters. Just by being who they are and standing in contrast to me, they say WHY are you filtering all that???

Cancers have been my enemies before. My Cancer sister and I are a very, very dysfunctional set of persons.

I don't know, I feel like dealing with Cancers is dealing with ghosts...things that I really don't pay attention to most of the time, things I block out, deny, pretend don't exist. They live in this emotional universe where emotions actually get revealed no matter how messy they are. WOW

posted April 03, 2016 05:47 AM            

interestingly enough I have a similiar somewhat ambivalent relationship with Cancers.

However it is also true, that I seem to draw women into my life who have that Cancer energy.

For example: my grandmother was a Cancer, my Mom has ASC in Cancer, my best friend has ASC in Cancer (exact conjunct my Mom`s btw), another friend has Moon in Cancer PLUS ASC, another woman I once was friends with (we lost contact, but there was no bad blood) has ASC in Cancer (and Sun in Pisces).

I mean honestly all those Cancer - ASC`s and they all reside from appr. 10-15 Cancer, so a very very tight span, just a bit too much for it to be coincidental.

It does not have any relation to my 12th house, instead it falls into my 8th house and pretty close to the cusp (12 Cancer), and is conjunct either my n Saturn (16 Cancer) or my pr Saturn (13 Cancer - retrograde).

It`s not so much that I feel like they are enemies, but my relationship with this side of their personality is.... complicated. lol
I do resonate with it on some level, but do not feel very comfortable with that emotionalism. Maybe they trigger shadow-content or at least some subconscious side in myself?

I suppose the 8th house is a good house for that as well, just liek the 12th.

posted April 03, 2016 07:30 AM            

A guy I'm currently dating, has his mercury, venus, mars, NN in my 12th house and my venus, jupiter, moon, mercury is in his 12th house. In composite, we have our Sun-mercury-venus stellium in the 12th along with mars on the cusp between the 1st and the 12th conjunct the ASC.

posted April 03, 2016 11:18 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
However it is also true, that I seem to draw women into my life who have that Cancer energy.

---

Same here. Did you know that all my immediate in-laws (my husband's family) are Cancer suns? Father-in-law, mother-in-law, brother-in-law and his wife! My husband's ASC is conjunct his father's and brother's suns.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I mean honestly all those Cancer - ASC`s and they all reside from appr. 10-15 Cancer, so a very very tight span, just a bit too much for it to be coincidental.

---

I agree.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
It does not have any relation to my 12th house, instead it falls into my 8th house and pretty close to the cusp (12 Cancer), and is conjunct either my n Saturn (16 Cancer) or my pr Saturn (13 Cancer - retrograde).

---

Well there you have a reason for it! I think Saturn is like a magnet because it holds onto things/people/energies etcetera longer.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I do resonate with it on some level, but do not feel very comfortable with that emotionalism. Maybe they trigger shadow-content or at least some subconscious side in myself?

---

Probably! They're spooky! (Love them for it, overall...but it's hard sometimes.)

Here's an example that I will delete later. Because it's 12H stuff.

--- EDIT: Nevermind, emailed you the story instead.

You probably do some of that with Mr Sag but in more subtle ways (because it your the moon, not the sun...the moon's a weaker light, if that matters.) I just wonder how you do it, and if you are even aware of it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Am I making him uncomfortable?

---

You're making him crazy! Hmmmm!

posted April 03, 2016 11:21 AM            

'Will probably use that story against me later.