posted November 28, 2018 09:37 AM            

I have been frustrated by it a lot, and it's hard not to feel discouraged knowing how it is likely to go in the end. For me, it has always played out. Some of the relationships can last for a long time, like my marriage, but they inevitably end. If they don't end completely, they end in a sense that they get completely reshuffled and restructured. They don't continue with the same depth and feeling that was once there.

My thoughts are that this opposition can be about finding limits. The limits or boundaries in the relationship, and the need for healing through Chiron but also the need for providing Uranus's requirements for freedom.

It is a hard energy to handle on your own, but in relationship you now have to balance this between two people. So if the two people come together and can find the balance together, the relationship can survive. This would mean their Uranus needs and their healing needs were fairly compatible, right? But if not, then the relationship nose dives and ends completely.

So is it about finding limits and boundaries and working with them to heal? Maybe it's about maturity and perspective, knowing what you have to work with and making the most of it? Knowing what is acceptable and what you cannot tolerate?

Anyone else experience this?

posted November 28, 2018 08:03 PM            

I looked and I’ve had it square the moon, square the love stellium, square mars... square everything!

posted November 28, 2018 09:46 PM            

So, with the outer planets they say that, it primarily represents an external force that impacts the person. Now, you and I know how complicated that astrological round-robin is about internal vs external and fate etc. right? So I'll leave that alone for the minute and keep it basic for ease of understanding.

When it comes to having the opposition of those outers (either Pluto or Uranus) to Chiron, I think of it collectively and as kindred spirits who went through that same stuff, and consequently share the same shock the the system (in a variety of ways depending on other aspects and house placements).

In particular for example sake, we're talking about the revamp of the value of health and body, and also prolific drug/alcohol use for psychological insights (Pluto > Virgo then Libra), and then the family unit (divorces etc - Uranus > Virgo and Libra) changing, experiencing a reshuffle of how relationships are done - a move away from tradition and a move toward kindred relationships. For only 2 very basic items to flesh out the point.

Where it hits personally then is via that opposition in Chiron (then again houses/aspects). We have 2 or 3 generations that have those upheavals imprinted in their psyche: both through witnessing the social collective experience (via others, the media and generally witnessing the outward movement) and it being a shock. And through direct experience via the formative years in our own personal lives. Because it's since birth that those outers opposed and so impacted the psyche personally, and through Chiron creating pain and wound. And also, not forgetting, deep empathy.

When I see it in composite (or Davison), I've only ever thought if it as the manifestation of two people still up against those external forces and experiences. It's a combined pain that is common to both. But, we hope to see some relief from that pain in the composite (and in synastry). And also, relief that is different to the methods symbolised/used in the natals. This gives variety and offers the person new methods and insights, which provides growth. And people will stick around longer also.

I have not thought about it actually turning inward though. Or how it may impact the two people of the relationship within the relationships! So, thank you for making me consider this!

posted November 29, 2018 05:38 AM            

I am digesting your thoughts on the more generational take on it, and how we may be carrying this innate wound with us in to this life.

posted November 29, 2018 03:23 PM            

I woke up thinking about it so it's on my mind. I was thinking how remarkable Chiron is.

I note that I have not been clear enough in my post above.

I'm clarifying by saying this: it is a somewhat personal planet only because it's not an outer planet. But, it's still a pretty generational force because it hangs in the same sign for such a while:

"While Chiron generally stays in a single zodiac sign for eight years, when he enters Saturn's orbit, he can buzz through a single sign in under two years.Apr 17, 2018"

I was thinking how this makes it really special. Because it's a pocket of a generation that is specifically impacted.

And our generation is interesting because we had several blocks back-to-back - both with Chiron in Pisces and Aries, and then also, the aspects to the outers Uranus and Pluto.

posted November 29, 2018 04:16 PM            

Uranus in 12th house Scorpio has me wanting complete freedom in sharing emotional and spiritual depth with the other person. But Chiron in 6th house Taurus needs to stay grounded in the here and now, needs to see, feel, touch the other person and know they are in my daily life while allowing me to dive so deeply.

But time after time, in these relationships, it is overwhelming. The freedom Uranus wants is more than most relationships can handle, and the Chiron demands of reassurance are also too much. The relationship breaks, either completely, or fissures start to wedge a divide.

In the composites, the opposition is not always Scorpio Taurus, and not always 6th and 12th... so different issues are probably at play, but the truth is that my personal opposition is always lying underneath this composite one and not helping the situation any.

I really liked your comment that while in Saturn's orbit, Chiron can speed up. Makes sense, right? With the guidance of fatherly Saturn, which makes Chiron deal with reliability, dependability, structure, he moves a little more quickly, more progress maybe? And that generation is unique in their Chiron wounds.... definitely have to think about this.

posted November 29, 2018 04:51 PM            

We are not in disagreement that the opposition doesn't have an affect in relationships.

On the flip-side I wonder: if you have the aspect, then living without it is unknown so.. we know relationships no different either (when it comes to the composite). So is it affecting? If the tree falls in the forest and no one hears or sees it does it really fall? If you get my nuance?

Maybe, which I think is your point - when two wounded people come together there is a threshold to where a relationship can or cannot handle it. Relationships having their own template for what can be made a success. And maybe, with the Chiron opposition people, that threshold is often pushed up against.

I agree on what you say about the natals - I mean, have you seen mine, gosh? Chiron (on my IC) is t-square with my 12H Venus, which is then square my Moon that is in the t-square conjunct Uranus and opposite the Chiron.

I guess the up side to Chiron is the healing side? I have found a lot of shared compassion within my peers over my time in certain circles. And, yes, mainly the very wounded. They speak openly about their wounds and traumas and generally, supportive bonds have been made that are based in a tribe of shared understanding of deep pain somewhere since childhood. A well of goodness sprung from this.

On the other hand I can think of peers a bit older than me back in the day - those then with Chiron in Pisces - and often it was heard that "so and so loved each other but one of them was just too messed up to make it work". Their relationship though often deepened and while they were no longer together, they became deep tribe-family.

If you have that issue with Uranus 12H and Chiron 6H maybe it's just another opposition to contend with. Makes no difference whether it's Chiron? You'd still have to manage a tension and the impact it has on your relationships whatever the planets involved.

Maybe too, because mine has Moon involved, I can process the generational forces easier, being able to bring it to consciousness, and down to earth and in the body more. Perhaps, if this is not the case, the aspect just kind of floats and has a greater chance of hitting one's life as an outside force. And maybe why you are trying to process it? To bring it back to earth. Does it touch any other planets?

Oohh.. and, maybe, when the synastry or composite happens - suddenly the aspect starts channeling through the personal planets and it's too much to process if one or both do not have it aspecting in their natal.. OOhh..

posted November 29, 2018 06:05 PM            

And your chiron uranus is very personalized! Mine hits Venus with easier aspects, but really that's it. So maybe this also emphasizes how it shows up in relationships?

posted November 29, 2018 06:21 PM            

Just text my interest..

He bit back bitterly and randomly with strange stuff.. stuff that belongs in a past relationship. He has done this before. Like I said, we have had some strange arguments. But we are all ok.

But, what I'm saying is that, it's like the Chiron-thing in action. If you noticed in our natal chart: I have the t-square with hard aspect to my Venus and easy to my Mercury; he has Chiron the other way - hard to his Mercury and easy to his Venus. And our synastry pivots on a conjunction between my Mercury and his Venus. In our composite - both our Mercury and Venus are quintile Chiron.

Often my "break outs" are about abandonment (when I look deeply into it and consider it). And he just waits for me.. With him, it seems to be about his intelligence (or something?). He fears he's not smart enough?

One or the other's wounds flair up on occasion. And it's so reactive, and so instant, I can see how it would wear the love down in a relationships and steal the person once loved away from the other person.

Our conjunction with Mercury and Venus then has the potential to heal or trigger? How interesting to watch! Even though one has what the other wants, I wonder if it's better to be with someone who has the same pain aspect?

It may reduce insecurities, or envies seeing what you dearly with you had being reflected in another. Codependency comes to mind too, if one person is leaning on the other to feel whole.

Sorry.. all about me here but these ARE things I've pondered on a deeper level with out synastry! But I've kind of been unable to articulate it. And your thoughts and queries have helped to formulate and articulate them!

Hope my thoughts help the discussion

I'm going to go ponder the Chiron in the Composite (which, I am very aware, is nicely trined by Neptune).

posted November 30, 2018 07:56 AM            

I personally think I would prefer the balancing of the wounds like you two have versus having the same. I think like you mentioned it could encourage codependency and enabling, you both can lick your wounds together because you are just dwelling on them.

But with the way you are set up, easy to your mercury and hard to your venus, and he has easy to his venus but hard to his mercury, yes! You both come together to mend this wound. Obviously it's going to open the wounds first, which doesn't feel good. But then you can offer each other a new perspective.

posted December 07, 2018 03:41 PM            

Hard to answer what it was all about because of other things. And I reserved concluding what it was about until I can have something tangible, which I didn't have.

It's then about me. About my standards. From a safe distance I can assess my boundaries and know what my values are. Know when I'm not being met, and able to take action for myself in response. It's good practice but without getting too stuck in the web of emotional complications [how Aquariass] because of the distance. Because it's not real life, it's totally a cerebral and theoretical association.

It was also about time management, and taking executive action to advocate for my emotions. But, in a non-dramatic, behind the scenes, without hurting anyone, kind of way. So... what - all my Venus in 12H stuff?? And that Venus is so challenged with this guy?? Interesting.

Sorry all a bit off topic and about me but, back to Chiron in composite ..

I feel that it's always about bringing up my insecure attachments from childhood. I tend to assume this always anyhow, as I feel it. I have not reviewed this interp I take. Maybe I should? So, it's about the fear of insecure attachments (Uranus to those very personal planets in my chart: Moon and Venus).

And maybe also highlighting an ambiguity that exists in any attraction, and then too anxiety. Having a history of not being attracted to people that are too grounded as they do not resonate with me and I struggle with that, because, on the other hand, I long to be grounded. But, I have no rapport with them and I fear they will not understand/relate to me, and that I will inevitably suffer abandonment.

I was thinking and remembering last night why Chiron is such a pain. As the wounded healer, the person can be interpreted as martyr-ish to unwise or inexperienced eyes. Chiron cannot pull the sword from it's own back, so it cries and moans for others to do it. It can see other's pains clearly though, and longs to clear them away for them. Yet, can do little for itself.

posted December 08, 2018 04:20 AM            

I was trying to put in to words why I feel the composite opposition so personally when what I was expressing was really the opposition in my natal. So like what you said, maybe the composite opposition stirs up our own personal natal aspect.

I had forgotten mine was retrograde. And its in the 12th. Yes, retrograde means (sometimes) that the person doesn't have access to it until later in life. Which, with my Uranus in Scorpio 12th house is so true. To me, it is about not realizing I am different from the rest of the crowd. Uranus in scorpio has manifested as my personal need to have freedom to explore the depths of everything, of life, of people, of myself... and to use it to my advantage. In the 12th it adds to this need to go deep, but because its in the 12th it was hidden from me as well as inaccessible to me.

posted December 08, 2018 06:46 AM            

"I was trying to put in to words why I feel the composite opposition so personally when what I was expressing was really the opposition in my natal. So like what you said, maybe the composite opposition stirs up our own personal natal aspect."

Maybe certainly if they bring Pluto to your opposition too?

Ummm., I just realised..

My Moon is pulling his Moon to be opposite Chiron in the composite. And conjunct Pluto.

My Moon is already opposite Chiron (but conjunct Uranus not Pluto). His Moon is otherwise not opposite Chiron in his natal. So, I'm used to the generational force being embodied in my psyche (and my life).

I may bring (intense: Pluto) anxiety and sadness then. I wonder if people can sense that kind of thing before a relationship is formed? They probably can.

Might be interesting to observe those relationships that take my Moon out of that opposition in a composite.

Ohh.. this is exactly the same with my ex.. he also had a Virgo Moon and in our composite I made it conjunct Pluto and opposite Chiron. Uranus also opposite Chiron of course but not close to the Moon.

So, basically too, anyone I form a relationship with from Sag to Aqua is likely to have one or many of those important planets around Capricorn in composite, which will always be square the Uranus/Pluto. And, as my Sun, Venus and Mars are in those signs it is those people that I am compatible with.

You're right StoneMoon - it's doomed!!

BUT - I see that it varies with the Chiron end: in my last relationships, one Chiron is square the C/Mercury, one squares the C/Venus, and another Quintile the Sun in the love stellium.

All things to continue to ponder!

Your relationship with him takes his natal Moon away from his Chiron conjunct. And perhaps out of a painful looping "old habits" configuration (opposite Pluto and square Mars). To quite a better position, given all those trines to the composite Moon.

Your composite gives you a Chiron square to Venus. Whereas in your natal it is trine Venus.

posted December 08, 2018 04:51 PM            

I was just coming back to add something I remembered. While in a way I didn't realize I was different from society as a whole, I have always been painfully aware of how different I was and still am from my family. Not my children, but different from my parents and sister. And I spent many years trying to fit in and trying to get them to understand me.

So another facet of Uranus in Scorpio 12th for me.

posted December 08, 2018 05:38 PM            

I was thinking how good it is to go to those next levels of deepness in astrology and bounce ideas around with someone.

Was going to say though, didn't we all feel different growing up? I am testing your idea that it is your 12H Chiron and how you can be sure of this. I am thinking more upon it.

I am feeling a lot of pain going through the Chiron thoughts again.

I can add too, that, thinking again of generational contacts, as has been touched on a lot in other threads, my #1 guy has NN conjunct my Chiron. I am considering that, all his relationships then has his NN touching on the other person's Chiron.

He would then be very sensitive to what pain is being brought into his life that is attached to other peoples's Chiron. Ie, in the form of planets associated with Chiron in their own natal charts.

Stating the obvious here but I think I got a bit lost in the discussion: the Chiron opposition to outers becomes more sensitive when it touches the inner planets. This is where the wound is deeply personal. Being touched by synastry or composite can erupt these wounds and make us vulnerable all over again.

posted December 08, 2018 06:20 PM            

an no, it was different. Knowing deeply I did not fit my family, yet as a kid not having the capacity to understand or reconcile it.

posted December 08, 2018 06:53 PM            

He DOES work from home! I get the feeling he IS isolated. When I have spoken to him, he incessantly chatters. He also has weird outbursts. I told you, I think he has Asperger's or is seriously mentally troubled (putting it nicely) with his thinking processes. Also, has the square from Pluto. He is career minded and wants power, yes. For some reason, I wonder if maybe he got his job through his parents.

Additionally, he also loves to argue incessantly. He has the filthiest mouth too that I've ever encountered and is extremely direct about his sexual intentions/fantasies. And says it's normal. He is quite bizarre. I wonder if he has some porn addiction. In the early days, he would text me at any strange hour also.

We both have the trine to Neptune, and also in the composite. And, yes, that Neptune/Moon theme runs too with his only square to his Moon - he has said that his mother was a bit "funny". Maybe the last thing he needs is a Moon conjunct to Pluto opposite Chiron in a composite (or maybe not, with his natal Venus trine Pluto?). It's already a fragile Moon, and probably very sensitively scoping for potential emotional discordance with others.

posted December 09, 2018 03:21 PM            

Walk through this here with me, if you will. Scorpio and Pluto in particular are known for intensity and depth. Do you think then that people with these two influences strongly represented in their chart would then be more likely to seek this Chiron "connection"/soul growing experience? Maybe more so than someone who has very little?

I don't know why this popped in to my head, but it did. Water signs, water houses, especially 8th... Scorpio Pluto people love to push deep, and embrace pain more than other signs... all in the name of transformation, which really is another word for evolution. And Chiron offers us a fairly direct route to accomplishing this. A little salt in the wound would appear worthwhile to someone wanting to get to the finish line of soul growth...

Yet we all have Chiron in our charts, and we all encounter Chiron relationships. But I am thinking about people I know personally who experience Chiron, but refuse to take the lesson offered.

I will elaborate if I can on Venus trine Chiron, but I have to really think it out first.

I was actually coming back to your chart and your Venus in 12th square to Chiron. And thinking about your guy #1. Even though the synastry and composite is layered and intriguing, I am feeling wary. You are embracing the opportunity for change and growth, that is evident. But why are you so drawn to someone with unhealthy displays of interacting with the world? your Venus in 12th is Neptunian, making it hard to see the boundaries of healthy versus unhealthy, right and wrong... and the square to chiron shows higher risk of being exposed to more relationships that further fog up your view and experience of love...

posted December 09, 2018 03:30 PM            

I looked and it appears the women in my family all carry this hallmark.

Me- trine
Daughter 1 - trine
Daughter 2- square
Mom- square
sister - semi-square
aunt 1 - sextile
aunt 2 - nothing
aunt 3 - nothing
grandmother- trine

posted December 09, 2018 04:12 PM            

I think you have something with the Scorp/Pluto.. and thinking on it further, it may be the case but for only a time? I was considering what the difference might be. Perhaps Scorpio may have a tendency, once identified the pain of the other, to use the information strategically? Use it as leverage for power when needed/wanted in a relationship? And perhaps would be be inclined to keep quiet about their own struggles? Once the mystery of the tension was uncovered. Once the honeymoon was over. I don't see Scorp/Pluto very compassionate. And, perhaps, they would be attracted to the depth, but, Chiron is about brokenness and even, weakness, and, someone broken is not very appealing to Scorpio. So, there must be some strength of will left in the Chiron person I think. Or, very many compassionate tones to the Scorpio person.

What do you think about that? I do have deep issues with Scorpio, and always have struggled to cope with seeing them as in any way useful to the planet. No, scrap that, lol, I mean, they are quite the mystery to me. So, feel free to correct me where you see otherwise. As you should anyhow.

I hear you about your daughter. With the Libra sensibilities too.. I have a Libra Moon, I've always been the compulsive fixer. I couldn't be otherwise. It rubbed up against my Capricorn mother who really only had disdain for my "bleeding heart". It took sometime then for me to recondition myself and embrace it, and love these qualities in myself.

posted December 09, 2018 04:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by StoneMoon:
now we are morphing our conversation to be Venus Chiron, but its just you and me talking anyway!

I looked and it appears the women in my family all carry this hallmark.

Me- trine
Daughter 1 - trine
Daughter 2- square
Mom- square
sister - semi-square
aunt 1 - sextile
aunt 2 - nothing
aunt 3 - nothing
grandmother- trine

so it's a familial pattern and scar of sorts we are handing down. These same women all have moon uranus aspects too. Definitely family trademarks.

---

Isn't that uncanny? I'd still like to do the stats on it to discover if it is in fact significant. But, I suppose, when you think of it, it is uncanny because there's fairly a slim-ish chance of aspects to another planet, so.. guess it is?

Lol - yes, I've noticed we're the only ones! I was thinking how we have a personal blog going on here with our 3 threads, care of LL expense.. hahaha. LL DID used to be like this though, people DID used to have discussions like this and where people learned together. So, in our own way, we are advocating to keep this alive.

And that's ok.. because what's great is that we go into the depths. I crave it in astrology, to unpick every bit to really learn and understand.