posted January 13, 2020 03:41 AM            

The dynamic for the below charts are mega mega confusing. I'd posted them a while ago but have more accurate birth times now - and I also need infinitely more help.

We are officially doing business with this guy but there's a strange flirtatious undercurrent that I am constantly trying to make more sense of. In the meantime he is adamant we should remain friends but his professional conduct is maddeningly flirtatious, familial + confusing. It is exciting and attractive, but quite strange also because he simply does not wish to acknowledge this.

I am incredibly interested in producing things with this person, our life causes sensibilities and interests are like two halves of a map. I have never had a mental connection like this in that what we would like to do is pretty much one and the same.

But each time we spend prolongued time together (and strangely enough, whenever we get together it bleeds into days), I am left super tired + confused as to what the hell is the true nature of this relationship. Case in point, yesterday he mapped out a large project in our field that oversees the renting of a large building to be occupied by us AS FRIENDS, and he also joked that he would prefer to have a say in who I saw romantically on the side. I was incredibly weirded out and told him I would see whoever I wanted to irregardless of his views. I also tried addressing the strangely romantic nature of our conduct, each time he got very uncomfortable. It is as if he would like this to turn into a weirdly familial situation without it ever being discussed.

Tbh, there was a brief point where I thought things were going to get real romantic and date-y, but now I'm even considering whether I should be trusting this person with even the professional stuff. What do you see in their chart? Are they a flakey partner in any sense? Is it even a good idea to consider this person romantically or sexually? And what is it that they want from me truly. Sometimes I feel like they are confused by the depth and nature of the thoughts and feelings invoked in him but who knows?

Please let me know what the future of this dynamic looks like to you.

posted January 13, 2020 12:06 PM            

so your attachment may not be with what is "real" but with the intense energies the chart generates.

urnaus conjunct the south node and square to Lilith means that your astral/dream states are always interacting. this can give common dreams and aspirations. it gives a psychihc connection and a overall rush of energy between you. these impulses seem to be both from within you and from with out.

Jupiter I sopposed to the vertex and square to eros and pallas. thisgives the excitement in the professional arena. pallas shows you feel empowered byu the business and professional connections to him. this can be very successful .but it is difficult to integrate this impulse to the overall chart and relationship.

but there hard asp3ects in his personality likely will make it so you never get what is due you in recognition of financial compensation.

you subconsciously know his faults but the higher palne energies allow you to not really consider what his actions mean.

and he has extremely selfish and ruthless tendencies overall.

he has already shown his inner feelings fro what you described above...he wants to help you but he wants to chain you while he keeps his options open. he seems to me as someone who wants to control others and not be exclusive with any one.

first off mars conjunct to ixion and square to nessus is extremely controlling and abusive. if he doesn't get what he wants he can use coercion .

theh midpoint oif nessus and mars/ixion is conjunct tio pallas and squar eto juptier and opposed to eros.
so he willwant absolute control of all financial/professional actions and recognition. even though you are just as important if not more important than he is for your "product".in addition with eros involved he has a sexual desire which involved completely subjugating you. he has already insinuate that this is so but you are so smitten by the higher energies that you are really listening to what his words mean.

the mercury/Saturn conjunction is opposed to the moon/Sedna conjunction this gives a ring of sincerity to your exchange of ideas and conversations. it gives the feeling that everything is above board and that each of you is totally honest to each other.
here the moon/satrun opposiytion cangive the feeling that you both are devoted to making this proj4ct work.

but the midpoint of mood/Saturn et.al. is square to the nessus/orcus midpoint which again is symbolic of extreme selfishness and harsh control and domination. so I spite o the clear thoughts that ass between you his inner desires and motivation is to subdue and control you. it almost seem to be that you emotional strength makes him want to control and enslave you emotionally.it is not emotional union or intimacy but emotional conquest that drives him.
this also implied as the Saturn/eris midpoint is square to the sun/pluto midpoint which shows his sexual interest is not love but to control and mold you to his desires....which are not to your benefit.

todd

posted January 13, 2020 12:34 PM            

Do you think he knows exactly how he feels about any of this or me, or do you think he himself is at a loss as to what he expects here?

What a truly weird dynamic.

I also feel like he has no grasp over his own problems as a person. I think cancer on his 10th makes him project a lot of familial traumas and expectations to the wrokplace, but when I even insinuate this (that he might be confused about what he expects from a business and workplace) he completely shuts down and demoralized. It’s as if he is more comfortable presuming than really talking.

I already said yes to a small collaboration with this person so will keep updating. But you feel this person is not a good candidate for any kind of interpersonal exchange? Is he always like this or is this something that arises from the dynamic with me in particular? It did feel like a possibility with me made him stop in his tracks, but I’m not sure if it is fully his personality or something in our dynamic. I’d love to hear what you think, Todd. And thank you as always for your time.

Any guesses as to the future, anyone? At this point you can be sure I have marked enough red flags here - it will be interesting to see what will prove right and wrong.

posted January 13, 2020 06:32 PM            

According to the synastry, I should in theory be triggering quite a few creative/sentimental urges in him, but quite honestly it seems like he is reigning these things in if he is even feeling them and focusing on what he imagines to be a "bigger" life plan, whatever that may be. I honestly feel like he is scared of me a little bit in the emotional realm. I wonder if this is well founded.

posted January 22, 2020 02:54 PM            

But in the "work" front, things have shaped into a fantastically promising project a lot of talented people are interested in. It's a lovely humanistic project that is very creative and energetic. However, I am not comfortable with his conduct, and maybe you could help me figure it out further. I would like to see if the positives of this situation could be harvested - since I am impressed with what we were able to come up with in a peaceful fashion, how we were able to combine our talents, and how people responded to it. If the project moves forward (this summer), it will translate into a series of really beautiful things for a lot of talented people who would not be able to produce these things otherwise. We will both be running this project and help people along jointly and equally.

However, the last 5 days of connection made me slowly understand this person is moody AF. I know what it's like to work with friends, or people who are close to you. It can be a lot of fun when you get along. Not only did his intensely romantic demeanor disappeared, but also it turned into a sort of strange personal coldness that is not interested in any sort of humane interaction or friendly rapport. Twice this week when I was talking about daily goings on he sort of stopped me to curtly talk about the situation at hand. I don't think he realized how self-centered and cold he came across, and told me that he was having a bad week. Still - we all know there's a difference between having a bad time and punishing other people for your problems. It's like a slowly simmering passive aggressive thing. It is the kind of thing that would make aperson with self worth issues question their own conduct, but I know I acted politely and fine. (tbh, I heard the moodiness and on and off thing from other people and collaborators as well)

However, I am so interested in making this project work - it really is what I would like to spend the next few years cultivating in its principles and output, I attribute this to the nodal connections going on above. What do you see in the charts? I feel like our joint efforts result in waaayyyy more than what we could achieve alone. Our line of work and interest is so niche. Is it so dire, is he so unstable mentally and emotionally that I should just walk away either way, or can I make this work in a way that I benefit in a controlled manner? Who has the upper hand here? Who has more pull over the other? Can I make this work?

I would also prefer he did not try to pry open the emotional/flirtatious thing again - but cannot fathom whether he will, I am afraid of finding myself as collaborators with a gigantic baby who I do not know will try to bed me/ice me. It just would not fly - I take the work way too seriously (and tbh, he does too - he is madly invested in his work) How do you read the mutual node contacts? Really really really appreciate your help and insights.

posted January 23, 2020 06:56 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Graham:
You need to explore how his Moon-Saturn opposition affected him in childhood/adolescence.

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Wow Graham. Excellent observation, thank you. What I have been told was that he had a remarkably difficult childhood with absent parents due to different very difficult life circumstances. What I meant when I said they do not have a grasp of the magnitude of their emotional issues above was related to this. They have a strange way of shutting down intellectually and emotionally. I think I have an okay idea about what their moodiness and emotional issues stem from, but if they do not know how to confront it or do not want to, how does one even communicate with the child -especially as a collaborator and friend-? Does one even bother? Should I? Are the benefits at hand worth it?

Great observation. I also think our mutual moon-saturn oppositions result in a lot of echoing issues/insecurities (I am extremely hard on myself).

I feel like he also may have a classic "I push you away/now I'm abandoned yet again" mechanism - as I said, I like them as a person but would really rather not have these things bog down our collaborative efforts. I'm also a little bit guilty of being a bit parental with friendships and relationships - I do not want to feel overly responsible for them.

posted January 26, 2020 03:55 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Graham:
Sorry for not yet replying, HT. Will do so on Monday.

Celebrating golden wedding anniversary this weekend.

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Wow, happy anniversary! To many more happy and healthy years, Graham. How wonderful. Have a lovely time.

posted January 27, 2020 12:52 PM            

quote:

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And what is it that they want from me truly?

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posted January 27, 2020 01:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Graham:
What is [b]your interpretation of the Pluto-Neptune-Sun Ambivalemce Triangle in the Davison Chart of you and him, HT?[/B]

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V new to the concept, Graham - first time hearing about it. But if I got a correct sense of it, it is an inherently tense configuration with a possible positive outlet. Indeed, there is a sense of great idealization and power struggle involved in the dynamic. It's a little like both sides are quite afraid of definitely shaping the dynamic, because I don't think we are both sure how much of our feelings and impressions of each other is respect or how much of it is fear. This is why I was asking about the nodal contacts as I was attributing to that. I am not sure whether I should be personally close to this person, they make me feel threatened in a very strange way. But we seem to be very comfortably creative together, and we operate as a unit very naturally and joyfully.

We are very oddly and uncharacteristically comfortable with each other, both conversing and planning. The romantic side seems to be indefinitely on hold. I'm quite happy about this, though I wonder if it would creep back up at an inopportune moment of our business relationship. I'm also a little bit afraid of finding myself experiencing deeper feelings as time moves forward. Or him? Something about it feels undeniably romantic in nature, as if it is merely asleep right now. This scares me. This is why I am in need of advice and guidance, to see what the true nature of the dynamic seems to you insighftful people.

So would it make sense to you if I said perhaps the Neptune in the 6th conjunct the DSC here (being attached to common ideals, shared visions) is a release from the Pluto Sun opposition, i.e. potential power plays?

posted January 27, 2020 02:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Stoika7:
Hi darling HieronymusTush,

this seems like he needs to keep control on close people/relationships as he feels to "own" them, this way he can subconsciously establish his inner ego power... but I need to say this straight, I think he has some big issues with women and sexuality

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Dearest Stoika, I hope you are very well - thank you as ever for your time and thoughts. Not only did I sense all you said, but I also heard this in some of what has been shared with me. One of my closest friends even said I seem to threaten him in a very strange way, so he recedes emotionally but tries to channel all of it to the professional realm maybe - or doesn't really feel romantically attracted anymore. I am not even sure about how I feel! Hence why I ask you what the true nature of the energies seem to be - I would like to equip myself accordingly. I wonder if as todd noted, the nature of what is at hand (sexual/business or romantic) is clear as day to you but somehow seems muddled to me due to the 12th house stuff. Unsolved and unsaid sound perfectly correct. I feel like the 7th house rulers placed in mutual 8th houses create a very sexual sort of attraction that makes me ask these questions. Could this be one sided?

posted January 27, 2020 04:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by HieronymusTush:
Dearest Stoika, I hope you are very well - thank you as ever for your time and thoughts. Not only did I sense all you said, but I also heard this in some of what has been shared with me. One of my closest friends even said I seem to threaten him in a very strange way, so he recedes emotionally but tries to channel all of it to the professional realm maybe - or doesn't really feel romantically attracted anymore. I am not even sure about how I feel! Hence why I ask you what the true nature of the energies seem to be - I would like to equip myself accordingly. I wonder if as todd noted, the nature of what is at hand (sexual/business or romantic) is clear as day to you but somehow seems muddled to me due to the 12th house stuff. Unsolved and unsaid sound perfectly correct. I feel like the 7th house rulers placed in mutual 8th houses create a very sexual sort of attraction that makes me ask these questions. Could this be one sided?

This is part of what makes the dynamic scary. It both feels like it is headed full speed in one direction (what - business? another type of involvement?) on the other hand, I feel like if I do not try to keep a careful watch over the possibilities, it might 'imprison' or undo me in some way. So you feel this person views me as a means to one end - which is success. Is this correct?

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yes, what you describe here, "he recedes emotionally but tries to channel all of it to the professional realm", is what I also mean... And I actually also wanted to ask you what feeling you have towards this person, if you have any. The 12th house is definitely confusing here and there are a lot of mixed feelings one doesnt know how to deal with...

posted January 27, 2020 05:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Stoika7:
And I actually also wanted to ask you what feeling you have towards this person, if you have any.

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Tbh, dear Stoika, as you know we semi-regularly discussed a very important challenging and beautiful two year relationship that ended quite recently with you. I'm quite happy that it is over, but I will always love him dearly, and as such I'm generally at a very emotionally confused state. I think some of the very strong and compassionate feelings I have for my previous partner are looking for a new home, new projects, new friends, new acquaintances...

But you know what, I actually feel a lot of acceptance and compassion and strangely enough, some kind of you know, maybe even a friendly, knowing sort of sympathy for this person that feels very romantic sometimes, I just find it very difficult to express it properly because I have a feeling he will disrespect or waste it.

I am adamant about being open and honest always, to the best of my knowledge of my feelings, but this person is not a big fan of this. Whenever I brought up our strangely confusing dynamic, he acted like I was 'spoiling' some sort of potential. Which, I don't know why, but seems to me as him trying to get his way and keep things unclear. Most probably he himself is threatened and scared, all proof point to this, but it doesn't feel like this to me. I just find it very difficult to trust him emotionally. So I'm worried about it turning into something more on my side. What do you think?

posted January 27, 2020 05:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by HieronymusTush:
Do you think the NN-Moon is a binding, nurturing aspect as it is often portrayed?

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This aspect alone suggests that an emotional bond can be potentiall pursued and it will be nurtured/will grow with time.

posted January 27, 2020 06:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Stoika7:
What do you mean by "Whenever I brought up our strangely confusing dynamic" ? ...did you actually refer to a romantic potentiality or just at the professional level?
What if it was matter of "reputation" from his part, in the work/social environment? His 12th house placement with NN/MC square to his Pluto/ASC might make him kind of reserved about personal matters and yes his saturn in 12th quincunx to your Jupiter might also be unconfortable in establishing a more intimate relationship with you. But he really has mixed feelings, in my opinion. Your NN is conjunct to his DSC, then you have Juno/Venus and Venus/Saturn, so he might actually see you as a perfect love partner to him. But his self-assertiveness in such matters is deeply "wounded".

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I will try not to get rambly Stoika - but I really don't know whether this is romantic or just business. I just cannot tell. immediately before we had just met in person, and right after, there were a few weeks where he acted incredibly flirtatiously, which I had to reign in by saying I really was not there emotionally, and that we should be friends get to know each other and pursue our common interests, which I said was quite niche and concentrated anyway, that we could collaborate. Right from the beginning, I had a sense that there was something we wanted to do together that is meaningful.

But I guess in the meantime, perhaps I am developing some feelings. I don't know what they are, and I really don't like most of what I gather from todd's reading, or some of my senses. I'm really not certain whether this person is capable of long term emotional care or responsibility both as a collaborator or a romantic interest. The pull is quite strong though, on each side. I know and can feel this.

posted January 27, 2020 06:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Stoika7:
... I just noticed, Composite Vertex is opposite the Jupiter/Neptune conjuntion, and transiting Nodes are triggering this aspect at this moment and for the next two months or so, so you will question this whole relationship and the whole project for a while, also with transiting Saturn/Pluto square Comp. Sun, this looks like a make it or break it time where even a sort of competition between you two might be triggered. But transiting nodes through the Jupiter/Neptune also point to the realization of the project even though the Vertex opposition might make hard to grasp what is actually going on... I guess you will have your mind clearer as soon as the transiting Nodes leave this conjunction.

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posted January 28, 2020 04:04 AM            

And his Sun-Jupiter-Pluto opposition to your NN (plus the ambivalence triangle created with his Neptune by that opposition) is impelling you to find the correct balance between "work, rest and play". (Thus, echoing the ambivalence triangle in the Davison Chart.)

If/when you find that "right balance", communications between the two of you will be "as promised by the Gemini NN of the Composite and Davison Charts"; his natal Cancer/10th house node will find the emotional security that his mother was unable to provide in childhood; your Aries/6th NN will find the pioneering business partner it needs ... and the relationship might THEN move on become the NN-in-7th partnership of the Composite Chart.