posted October 01, 2020 09:58 AM            

So out of curiosity I also looked up another high profile case: Scott and Laci Peterson (he killed her and her unborn baby). They have mars square pluto in composite.

Now I know one aspect alone can't indicate abuse or violence, and these are extreme cases but... do you all think that there is always an indication in synastry/composite that warns of abuse or violence?

Is it possible for an abusive or violent relationship to have no signs of abuse in synastry/composite or vice versa (charts with abuse "red flags" that are normal and healthy?)

posted October 01, 2020 12:24 PM            

Me and my twin brother have our Mars square Pluto with my sister. There has been friction and arguing, but not abuse or violence.

So there are three questions:

1. Does a relationship with “abuse” aspects always lead to abuse? I would say no.

2. Does a relationship without “abuse” aspects mean it will be free of abuse? I think also no. It’s probably possible to have transits that cause abuse as well.

3. Can you have a healthy relationship despite “abuse” aspects? Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith have Mars square Saturn and Sun conjunct Pluto DW, and have been together for over 20 years. There’s no abuse (that I know of), but they have been in therapy from the very beginning, and have taken breaks from each other.

So I guess it’s possible. It helps that they have a 6-planet conjunction in Libra in composite. It also sounds exhausting to me.

Emotionally mature and self-aware people are probably able to handle those difficult aspects and keep the relationship going. I don’t know if that’s a good thing. If you work hard, you can turn a mediocre relationship into an OK one. If you are immature and don’t work at it, only really great relationships will last for you. So then emotionally mature people end up less happy that emotionally immature people.

posted October 01, 2020 02:03 PM              

When it comes to male to female abuse, I would say it's probably more important to look at the male's natal chart overall and in combo with the synastry.

If there are indications/patterns of either high insecurity, unhealthy power/control issues, and/or lower empathy, then the man is more likely to engage in abuse.

I've noticed that the PLANETS (not the Signs they are connected to) that show up most strongly, often in a predominant sense, in such charts of such types are Saturn, Pluto, and/or Mars. Conversely, the mid to faster vibratory Planets/symbols such as Venus, Jupiter, Neptune, and Sun tend to be weak/unconscious/inactive at the same time.

(Uranus the extremist can go either way, as Uranians tend to have both a noticeable high vibratory [loving/love attuned] and noticeable low vibratory side [lack of love/strong fear and selfishness], and flip flop between them in a very contrasted way).

Btw, is it any wonder that out of all the male dominated professions out there, that domestic/spousal abuse is highest among police officers? It's fairly well known and accepted that this profession attracts a higher amount of people on the ASPD spectrum (i.e. sociopaths and psychopaths), as well as insecure, bully types for the less extreme ones. (The other type of officer is very different and is very community and/or service oriented, and truly believes in ideals of justice, but they seem to be somewhat the minority).

Btw, there is female to male abuse too. Sometimes physical, but more often emotional-psychological and more manipulation oriented--mind and heart f'ery. It is no less real or damaging than male to female physical abuse.

Johnny Depp and Amber Heard are a good example of all the above going on. Interestingly, Depp has a strong but rather stressed Saturn in the 7th indicating that he tends to attract/be attracted to unusually slower vibratory partners i.e. lack of attunement to real Love, but high in materialism, ego, selfishness, etc. Well before all the latter evidence came out, I got strong malignant narcissist vibes from Heard and thus came to not believe her "account" (read story) pretty quickly after very briefly believing her. (Depp needs to stick to 5th House romance type partnerships, or wait to meet someone when Jupiter is in his 7th).

According to Cayce and my own research, Saturn is the most separative, lacking in connection to Love and Source Consciousness Planet/symbol there is. One of these symbols had to play "Satan" at least part time, and phonetically funny enough it's Saturn. Pluto can also be linked to similar themes, but Pluto is extreme, though in a different way than back and forth Uranus. With Pluto and Plutonians--they can be attuned to either severe lack of Light or to great Light, but not like Uranus/Uranians where both are there at the same time and one flip flops between them, but in a more steady/fixed way that can only be changed by major life lessons and transformations.

Mars is just ego, full of itself, often with a temper problem, and very red. He's just more of a regular narcissist and/or younger Soul. Mars only becomes really negative and destructive, when mixed strongly with very strong and/or very stressed Saturn and/or Pluto.

Otherwise, strong Mars can stick up for underdogs, have courage and fight for just causes, etc (especially when in combo with strong Jupiter, Sun, Venus, and/or Neptune).

Notice I didn't go into Signs in relation to all the above. That's because Signs play much less of a direct role in indicating consciousness levels/attunements than do Planets. You see this very obviously in some charts, like Dick Cheney's who beyond a doubt either a sociopath or psychopath. Aquarius and Pisces are very strong.

But more importantly, Saturn, Pluto, Mars, and Mercury are very strong (and some of these very stressed) with Jupiter, Neptune, Sun, and Venus very weak/inactive/unconscious.

This all relates to the Chakras/endocrine glands/energetic centers of the body.

Saturn, Mars, Pluto, and Mercury all connect to the first 3 centers the most i.e. the slowest vibratory.

Venus starts us off in the first semi faster vibratory center/gland of the thymus (sometimes called "heart") with Neptune, Jupiter, and Sun corresponding to the fastest vibratory centers and glands.

In other words, Dick Cheney, despite his strong emphasis on the latter Signs, planetary wise, all his strongest focus is in the slowest vibratory centers, with a severe lack of focus in the mid and fastest vibratory centers. All ego, testosterone and intellect with no heart, empathy, nor spiritual attunement.

posted October 02, 2020 12:45 AM            

Yes, I think there are fairly reliable indicators for toxic and abuse relationships.

First thing to look at is each individuals natal chart, if they have red flag aspects natally pointing towards abusive relationships.
Example; 7th ruler square Pluto, mars conjunct DSC, Nessus hard aspect to 7th ruler or juno. mars square Pluto etc. There is a lot, and you have to look at everything in a chart, but those are just a few as an example.

So if one or both people have that natal potential, and the same aspects/patterns are repeated in the synastry and/or composite, that’s a pretty solid reliable indicator of a bad relationship. Depending on the planets involved, we can see different types of abuse. If mercury is involved; verbal/mental abuse. If moon is involved; emotional abuse. Mars; physical/sexual.

I’ll post a few charts here as examples as well and explain so people can get a better idea and hopefully it helps someone.

posted October 02, 2020 06:34 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by antiphon:
I did a study of domestic violence charts and all of them had hard aspects to Mars from Saturn, Pluto or Mars in synastry or composite.

Me and my twin brother have our Mars square Pluto with my sister. There has been friction and arguing, but not abuse or violence.

So there are three questions:

1. Does a relationship with “abuse” aspects always lead to abuse? I would say no.

2. Does a relationship without “abuse” aspects mean it will be free of abuse? I think also no. It’s probably possible to have transits that cause abuse as well.

3. Can you have a healthy relationship despite “abuse” aspects? Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith have Mars square Saturn and Sun conjunct Pluto DW, and have been together for over 20 years. There’s no abuse (that I know of), but they have been in therapy from the very beginning, and have taken breaks from each other.

So I guess it’s possible. It helps that they have a 6-planet conjunction in Libra in composite. It also sounds exhausting to me.

Emotionally mature and self-aware people are probably able to handle those difficult aspects and keep the relationship going. I don’t know if that’s a good thing. If you work hard, you can turn a mediocre relationship into an OK one. If you are immature and don’t work at it, only really great relationships will last for you. So then emotionally mature people end up less happy that emotionally immature people.

---

The Mars square Saturn doesn't mean abuse. It means that the Saturn person will be very critical about how the Mars person behaves. - I had it 3 times in synastry already and it is just awful, but no abuse. I guess if it was coupled with some other aspects, it would lead to physical abuse.

An aspect of abuse would be Mars square Pluto. I found it in the natal chart of a "friend" that destroys everything when it is about loving relationships, if it doesn't go his way.

Blackmailed a woman with which he was sleeping. She was married and he knew about this, and when she didn't want to be with him anymore, he blackmailed her to not tell his husband and went to the HR department and told that he was sexually harassed.

He tried to be with me for a few years now. I met him a few times by accident. I have been knowing him for like 15 years. And he made-up some stories about what happened, which didn't happen. Like if I asked him if he's ok, he would think that I asked him this because I want to be with him.

In the end, I started talking with a guy and he told me a lot of bad things about the guy, told him bad things about me, went to a friend and told him about how I and that guy we are talking.

He has South Node in Scorpio and his Sun conjuncts it, with the Mars-Pluto square.

** I think I never heard of physical abuse from him because he has a Libra ASC.

posted October 02, 2020 06:51 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SecretGeek:
Pallas, Jupiter, and Pluto in certain arrangements, etc: http://zot.net/criminalastrology.htm

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posted October 02, 2020 08:44 AM            

I think it could be related to the author's bloodbath formula including Venus, which mentions Neptune. Meaning, Neptune could soften instinctual defense mechanisms.

posted October 02, 2020 09:20 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by virgoscorpio:
Hmm that is interesting that Pallas is so involved

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I think Pluto is an asteroid also.

posted October 02, 2020 11:50 AM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by Travelman:
I have Mars conjunct rising. I have heard mixed reviews about this in the natal.
I also have moon square mars which does not sound nice but I suppose Venus trine Moon softens that a lot. Otherwise, I just have mars sextile saturn

Only Neptune makes a connection with pluto as a sextile which is soft.

---

We also have our spiritual will. The chart doesn't show this free/spiritual will side-it can't.

That wild card variable is more important than any astrological indication, and any character or personality trait or tendency can be changed. Well, much less likely for a hard core psychopath or the like, but these are fairly rare. It's not easy to change chart patterns, but it is doable.

I'm also of the opinion that there are a number of people out there who are running around with inaccurate charts--even folks into astrology. Not going to go into the whys and hows here, but will just say that I don't come to beliefs lightly and without testing, going within, and thinking deeply and very holistically about the subject.

So yeah, even if a majority of people with Mars conjunct their Asc have a tendency towards temper, easily getting frustrated or intolerant with others and/or life, tend to be more self focused or centered than the average, have a very strong sex drive and focus, and/or tend to be very materialistic, etc it doesn't mean that all people with that position will have those traits.

If one or especially more of the mid to faster vibratory symbols is also strongly highlighted at the same time, (Angular or near Angular, in strong aspect to Angle rulers, etc, etc), such patterns will often help to offset or counter balance some of the more limiting expressions of a very strong Mars.

For example, my brother has a Venus Mars conjunction closely conjunct his Asc. He also has a rather strong Jupiter and pretty strong Neptune. While he does have some definite Mars tendencies and traits in him, it's quite softended and toned down i.e. he is more love attuned, more spiritual oriented, more tolerant, etc. He has the capacity for temper and passion, but he also had good control over self and knows how to redirect that energy.

The fact that you're into astrology speaks to something else going on (whether chart wise or free/spiritual will influenced), because usually true Martians--ESPECIALLY Martian males, are hyper focused on the material and don't believe in or care about much else. Astrology is far too high in the air, esoteric and too nonphysical for them to care about. They most often care most about f'ing, fighting/competition, eating, and making money more than anything (not necessarily in that order).

posted October 02, 2020 02:02 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by SecretGeek:
Pallas, Jupiter, and Pluto in certain arrangements, etc: http://zot.net/criminalastrology.htm

---

Pallas, Pluto, and Jupiter are on top of each other at 22 degrees Capricorn around 11/10/2020:

posted October 02, 2020 07:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by antiphon:
I did a study of domestic violence charts and all of them had hard aspects to Mars from Saturn, Pluto or Mars in synastry or composite.

Me and my twin brother have our Mars square Pluto with my sister. There has been friction and arguing, but not abuse or violence.

So there are three questions:

1. Does a relationship with “abuse” aspects always lead to abuse? I would say no.

2. Does a relationship without “abuse” aspects mean it will be free of abuse? I think also no. It’s probably possible to have transits that cause abuse as well.

3. Can you have a healthy relationship despite “abuse” aspects? Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith have Mars square Saturn and Sun conjunct Pluto DW, and have been together for over 20 years. There’s no abuse (that I know of), but they have been in therapy from the very beginning, and have taken breaks from each other.

So I guess it’s possible. It helps that they have a 6-planet conjunction in Libra in composite. It also sounds exhausting to me.

Emotionally mature and self-aware people are probably able to handle those difficult aspects and keep the relationship going. I don’t know if that’s a good thing. If you work hard, you can turn a mediocre relationship into an OK one. If you are immature and don’t work at it, only really great relationships will last for you. So then emotionally mature people end up less happy that emotionally immature people.

---

I generally agree with these observations,though I would add Uranus to the MUX when violence is involved. Also hard Chiron /Saturn aspects go along with a abusers chart.with pedophilia,psyche and Saturn are often part of the mix.this aspect us often found in S/M relationships.

Generally a abuser will have few major trines whereas a abuse survivor will have the hard Saturn aspects but also strong trines between conscious planets

posted July 29, 2021 09:56 PM            

Could that indicate violence?

We both like very rough violent sex but that's the only time any sort of violence comes out between us.