posted December 10, 2011 11:37 PM            

Okay so I’ve been giving this a lot of thought and I think I’ve noticed another ‘pattern’ with regard to how to determine what traits a person’s ideal man or women would have using house cusps… now, this is not exactly the same as one’s romantic type… which I see as being connected to a person’s primary and secondary 5th, 7th, and 8th houses (as well as aspects to the vertex axis, and to some extent what is shown by the asteroids Juno, Eros, and Psyche)… but rather it refers to our unconscious perceptions of how the ideal man or woman is supposed to behave….

It relates back to our natal positions of Venus and Mars…

The Sun and the Moon seem to refer to the Masculine and Feminine archetypes in their entirety… like the full spectrum… where as Venus and Mars seem to refer to specifically the notion of a man or a women as a love interest…

Venus is the beautiful sweet young maiden, and Mars is the aggressive heroic young Man…

Here’s what I’ve noticed… the Sign of Venus or Mars seems to relate to a particular house cusp... this house supplies more information about what our views on the ideal man or women are in courtship type situations…

Anyway to summarize…

THEORY: That the condition of our natal Mars and Venus refers to our Primary Masculine and Feminine Ideals… especially in a courtship sense…, and that the house symbolically connected to our Mars and Venus signs shows more information about these ideals… thus the house symbolically connected to our Mars and Venus signs shows our Secondary Masculine and Feminine Ideals…

FINDING OUR SECONDARY FEMINIE IDEALS FOR VENUS IN…

Aries… look at the condition of your natal 1st house
Taurus… look at the condition of your natal 2nd house
Gemini… look at the condition of your natal 3rd house
Cancer… look at the condition of your natal house
Leo… look at the condition of your natal 5th house
Virgo… look at the condition of your natal 6th house
Libra… look at the condition of your natal 7th house
Scorpio… look at the condition of your natal 8th house
Sagittarius… look at the condition of your natal 9th house
Capricorn… look at the condition of your natal 10th house
Aquarius… look at the condition of your natal 11th house
Pisces…. look at the condition of your natal 12th house

When you look at the natal house connected to your Venus sign, it gives extra information about the traits you admire in women, especially in courtship situations, then Venus by sign and house alone can give. For a man it may show more about the type of women that he wants, and for a women it may show more about the type of women she that aspires to be….

FINDING OUR SECONDARY MASCULINE IDEALS FOR MARS IN…

Aries… look at the condition of your natal 1st house
Taurus… look at the condition of your natal 2nd house
Gemini… look at the condition of your natal 3rd house
Cancer… look at the condition of your natal house
Leo… look at the condition of your natal 5th house
Virgo… look at the condition of your natal 6th house
Libra… look at the condition of your natal 7th house
Scorpio… look at the condition of your natal 8th house
Sagittarius… look at the condition of your natal 9th house
Capricorn… look at the condition of your natal 10th house
Aquarius… look at the condition of your natal 11th house
Pisces…. look at the condition of your natal 12th house

When you look at the natal house connected to your Mars sign, it gives extra information about the traits you admire in men, especially in courtship situations, then Mars by sign and house alone can give. For a women it may show more about the type of man that she wants, and for a men it may show more about the type of man he that aspires to be….

For example, my Mars sign is Leo…. The sign Leo is symbolically related to the 5th house…
So my Primary Masculine Ideal is show by my natal Mars position… Leo…. And my Secondary Masculine Ideal is shown by the condition of my 5th house… which covers most of Aries and the beginning or Taurus…

Now I have to admit that a guy having planets in my 5th house in Aries and early Taurus is particularly exciting to me…. And I don’t mean merely that they have traits that resemble the symbolism of my 5th house (as with the romantic taste scenario), but when their planets are actually IN my 5th house it’s like I can feel my male ideal coming to life….

I’ve also noticed that Aries and Taurus refer to two different parts of my male ideal… the Aries (and Leo as Mars is in Leo) part refers to someone who is really dynamic and exciting, someone who has lots of vigorous energy and passion… and the Taurus part seems to refer to someone who is very calm and not easily fazed by drama, who prefers to keep things simple, and is very handsome with a steadying influence… both types have their charm.

For Ceridwen: Now I remember you that you have Taurus on the 5th house cusp but that you don’t really resonate with someone who puts planets actually in your 5th house in Taurus, but rather resonate with your 5th house ruler Venus in Capricorn…. I also remember that you have Mars in Sagittarius…. So just out of curiosity… since the sign Sagittarius refers to the 9th house…. When a guy influences your 9th house through synastry do you feel it as an exciting placement similar to what I’ve just described?

Now for Venus… my Venus is in Sagittarius… Sagittarius relates to the 9th house for me…. So my Primary Feminine Ideal is shown by the natal condition of Venus… and my Secondary Feminine Ideal is shown by the natal condition of my 9th house…

In my case the 9th house is ruled by Leo with the beginning of Virgo still in it…. And of course my Sun is in Capricorn… I have noticed that there is something about Leo and Capricorn in another women’s chart that I admire… and I did have one female co-worker who was a Leo, and there was just something about her bearing that I liked….also my female best friend is a Leo, and her Jupiter is in Capricorn conjunct my Sun… I’ve also noticed that I sometimes admire other women who have Aries and Sagittarius qualities… which makes sense as Mars is in the 9th house, and Venus is in Sag….

Also if I were to think of my fantasy self as a women… I’d probably be someone who is a little more bold then I really actually am, but who still has some Capricorn level-headedness… which makes sense… with my 9th house cusp being in Leo, ruled by Sun in Capricorn, and Mars and Saturn being in the 9th house…

Any comments people? does this fit for you? And if so please explain how….

posted December 10, 2011 11:56 PM              

My Mars is in Capricorn and my 10th House (vacant) cusp in Gemini. The Gemini archetype is actually of primary importance to me in my masculine ideal though. I'd take a brilliant mind over worldly success. A date full of stimulating conversation would impress me a lot more than being taken to a five-star restaurant.

posted December 11, 2011 12:26 AM            

My Venus is in Aquarius. It says look at my 11th House. Its Capricorn Mars and Mercury.

My Mars is in Capricorn. It says look at my 10th House. Its Capricorn Sun.

posted December 11, 2011 02:44 AM            

Capriquarius, your post was interesting. Tell me, with your Mars in Cap, how do you feel about 10th house synastry? Do you find that you particularly enjoy it when a guy puts important planets and points into your 10th house?

posted December 11, 2011 04:24 AM            

Taurus… look at the condition of your natal 2nd house

sag with uranus there. sags are sessy and aquarians are very cute to me both in look and personality.

Scorpio… look at the condition of your natal 8th house

gemini 8th house. juno, chiron, north node there.

love gemini looks as well.

posted December 11, 2011 05:29 AM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
Capriquarius, your post was interesting. Tell me, with your Mars in Cap, how do you feel about 10th house synastry? Do you find that you particularly enjoy it when a guy puts important planets and points into your 10th house?

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His Venus is in Aquarius and he has Aquarius on his 11th House cusp. I have Moon and Juno conjunct in Aquarius and in our synastry they are in his 11th House.

The Aquarius "friend" ideal seems to play a major role in his dating selection. He and I started off as friends.

After that relationship dissolved, I dated someone who has no connection to my Gemini MC, although his Juno at 29 Cancer is conjunct my 10th/11th House cusp. Despite the attraction and strong emotions, things just didn't pan out. He's an interesting person but bores me mentally. Incompatible Mercuries.

His Venus is in Capricorn and he has Scorpio on his MC, where his Mercury and Uranus conjunct. In our synastry, my Venus/Uranus in Scorpio fall in his 10th House.

Your theory seems to explain something I've been looking for in his natal chart that might explain a very strong "ideal" of his: His MC is conjunct Mercury/Uranus might reflect his uncontrollable fetish for bisexual women/lesbians. Uranus seems to hold some domain over homosexuality, from what I've read. I realize it's a common turn-on for men (and Guy #1 eventually developed this fetish too at some point, in mild form) but this Guy #2 takes it to a whole new level. It seems to be almost a requirement that his spouse be bisexual. He actually seems to prize that particular sexual orientation above a woman's beauty or sexual prowess. I don't fulfill this criteria for him, even though he tried to talk me into dating other girls, and he didn't fulfill mine for stimulating conversation, so things didn't work out. (I actually think one of the reasons he developed an interest in me is because I used to have "Interested in Men and Women" checked off in my Facebook because I meant I was interested in meeting men and women for NETWORKING, not dating.)

He has Mars in Virgo and his 6th House has Cancer on the cusp and contains his Juno. We met at work and whenever someone brought cake or doughnuts, he would grab a few and bring them to me before I had a chance to get around to it. On our first date, he insisted on feeding me (sushi), even though I habitually don't eat dinner and told him as much. He also kept a veritable pantry of snacks on his desk and urged me to help myself to it. This is all reflective of Cancer on his 6th House cusp being ruled by Mars in Virgo.

posted December 11, 2011 06:17 AM            

finally an interesting thread with an intriguing idea in this forum again.

So, since my Mars is in Sag, I am going to look at my 9th house; cusp is in Leo (but covers only 3 degrees of that sign) and Virgo is intercepted in 9th house.

Well, I have never felt particularly drawn to Leos.

but the sign of Virgo has played a vital role in my life, even though it wasn`t "suupposed" to, given I am a Sag.
Yes, I definitely feel a pull towards male Virgos, now and then I am having crushes on them, though they never happen like being hit from a bolt out of the blue, but rather it is like these crushes or feelings of affinity are "sneaking up on me", like they have always been there, but I failed to pay attention.

Having said that, interestingly many of my female friends have been Virgos or Aquas, though for some reason several of them share a Cancer - ASC, even my mum has that.

My best friend is a Virgo as well, but only has Sun and IC there, plus a big conjunction of Mercury, Venus, Mars and Pluto in Libra on the cups of my 10th house.

And that ties into your other question, about Venus-signs. Since my Venus is in Cappy, I would have to look at the 10th house, which happens to fall into Libra, with Pluto in there as well, and Uranus on the last minutes of that house but in Scorpio.

Hmm, but speaking of my 9th house, I find it interesting that both rulers of the 9th house are conjunct in Sagittarius, and funnily that is the combination (Virgo-Sag) of the gentleman we were talking about a few weeks ago.
As a matter of fact his Mars-Jupiter conjunction as well as Saturn and DESC are all falling into my 9th house. lol

So for his side of the equation I would look at his Venus sign, which is in Cappy, so 10th house for him.
And my Sun, Mercury and Venus all fall into his 10th house. lol

His Mars sign is Virgo - so 6th house,w hich is in Leo. And funnily, when we were all guessing his ASC, so many people were thinking he had a Leo ASC.

Might that be the reason?

posted December 11, 2011 08:48 AM            

For me it's:

Venus in Scorpio --> Eighth House --> Aries (no planets except, uh, Pholus)

Mars in Capricorn --> Tenth --> Gemini (no planets; MC square Moon and opp Uranus)

posted December 11, 2011 11:19 AM            

her husband`s Venus is in Sag, his 9th house contains the end of Libra and start of Scorpio. My friend does not have personal planets in his 9th house (though her NN is there), BUT in equal his 9th house contains Virgo and a bit Libra, and she has her Sun and Mercury in his 9th house then.

It does not work directly with my Dad.
He has Aqua-Venus, 11th house in Cancer and Leo, my mum has only Pluto in his 11th house; but his 11th house ruler is in his 8th house and opposes her Scorpio-Sun!

posted December 11, 2011 11:32 AM            

Mars in Sag, 9th in Aquarius with Sun and Mercury. I can definitely see how those play out in the types of dudes I like, but those are already evident because of my DSC (which is in Sag conjunct Uranus and Satirn with Jupiter in Aries in m 11th).

posted December 11, 2011 01:33 PM            

Your theory has been in my head since I read it last night, and I think it's unbelievably perfect. My Venus in Aries is in the 7th house, and my 2nd house cusp has Libra in it. I definitely like women that are refined, stable, grounded, secure, but with that hard, Arian edge that's independent and not pandering in the slightest (My ascendent is 28 degrees Virgo so my 1st house is primarily Libra anyway)

Also, since Venus has co-rulership with Taurus, that's the cusp of my 9th (where my Sun is). I hate airheadedness in all forms and only have friends that are naturally thoughtful.

My natal Mars is in Pisces in the 6th.. my 12th house is Virgo. I don't know, that one is hard to piece together. I do love dreaminess and sensitivity in a man, but I also want them to be WAY more practical in the real world then that - have good analytical skills and be discerning in all things on top of having a beautiful, ethereal inner life.

posted December 11, 2011 02:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Amowls,

are you sometimes acting Taurean (maybe mixed with Pisces), if you want to attract others? Exuding sensuality, warmth and a more grounded, stable way of expression?

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posted December 12, 2011 04:07 AM            

yes, makes sense.

Also, maybe Venus is more about the actual expression, than what we idealize, and the idealization comes in with certain aspects? Just guessing.

In my case, Cappy Venus - 10th house in Libra. With Pluto in it.
Well, I do not really see myself as Libran, but then I cannot deny that I have a tendency to try to "smoothen things out", being diplomatic and fair (though sometimes I simply want to be running around screaming at people that they are bloody idiots. But then I get aware of that and have to laugh about my own childishness. lol).

posted December 18, 2011 08:15 PM            

Anyway….

Capriquarius said about guy with Capricorn Venus…

“His MC is conjunct Mercury/Uranus might reflect his uncontrollable fetish for bisexual women/lesbians. Uranus seems to hold some domain over homosexuality, from what I've read.” and “It seems to be almost a requirement that his spouse be bisexual. He actually seems to prize that particular sexual orientation above a woman's beauty or sexual prowess.”

I think you make an extremely good point… you’d think that in most cases a guy with a traditional Capricorn Venus would run from such a women…. But when you make the connection from a Capricorn Venus to his Scorpio Mc, with the Uranus/Mercury… it seems to add a whole new level to the interpretation… Scorpio has a lot to do with sexuality, Uranus is definitely alternative, and Mercury is pretty asexual and very curious…. I can totally from his Mc placements how he’d be into this type of women….

~~~

Ceridwen,

Yes, I remembered the reading I did for you and that the guy in question had a bunch of planets in Vigo in your 9th house…. Mostly I wondered if this was a common for you in synastry with crushes or if he was an unusual case… and it’s helpful for me to see that it is… also, in your case, the 9th is your secondary first house…. So you would have a feeling of ‘things in common’, with your 9th house friends which could explain the female friends you have with Virgo placements…

Also, don’t know how you come across in person, but your posts online do have a certain Libra type vibe….kind of objective, yet harmonious and intellectual ….and I do feel that your best female friend having a stellium in your 10th is fitting for this theory as well….

~~~

Amelia28,

Yeah, I’ve got Aries on the 5th and Mars in Leo myself…. And I know just what you mean about the passion thing. If a guy is too unemotional and ‘dry’ it feels like something is missing. But with my Gemini Dsc… I must also be able to TALK to him…. I crave intellectual stimulation, and similar interest with a partner…

~~~

posted December 18, 2011 08:17 PM            

I’ve been playing around with the notion primary and secondary placements for a few years now… and it seems the same principle can be applied to any house cusp or planet…

The Primary Placement being a planet or house cusp in a particular sign…

And, the Secondary Placement, being the house cusp symbolically related to the sign of that planet or house cusp…

For example….

I’m a Sag rising and my 5th house cusp is in the sign of Aries…. Aries is my primary 5th house placement…. Aries is symbolically related to the 1st house… my Sag 1st is my secondary 5th house placement… and people with placements in late Sag (my 1st house cusp) are totally fun to me…

If my 5th house was Gemini I’d look at the 3rd house for extra information on my 5th, if my 5th house was Capricorn I’d look at the 10th house, and if it were Pisces I’d look at the 12th house… and so on…

The same thing if I wanted extra information on my 8th house…. My 8th house is Cancer… and yes I do place a huge value on emotional security in intimacy…however my secondary 8th house is my 4th house…. Pisces is on my 4th house cusp… I like to be able to escape into our own private little world with an intimate partner, and a compassionate partner is a must…

The secondary placement provides extra information about a particular planet or house cusp… this information supplements the original or primary placement… it often fills in the missing details about a person’s tendencies and taste that don’t seem to be reflected in the primary placement…

At first I was merely using it as a tool for romantic compatibility…. Paying special attention to the 5th, 7th, and 8th houses and their primary and secondary house cusps…(now I’m going to be paying attention to the primary and secondary placements for Mars and Venus as well)…but the more I used this method the more it became obvious that it could be used for planets, as well as for any house cusp….

It might be especially worth while to pay attention the primary and secondary placements of the angular house cusps… the Asc (persona), Dsc (relationships), Mc (reputation) and Ic (private life), as well and the Sun (identity) and Moon (emotion), and Venus and Mars (courtship, ideal male or female romantic partner)

This same principle can be applied to planet sign placements… as I did with Venus and Mars above…

For example, not only do I have Venus in Sag, but also the Asc, Mercury, and Neptune… that’s four placements in total… so my 9th house provides extra information on quite a large part of my personality… my 9th house cusp Leo with Mars and Saturn also in that house… and I have noticed a kind of ‘no-nonsense, lets get real’ type quality to my opinions and attitude in general… my Venus in the 1st glosses over this to some extent… but it’s still there underneath…

Another way to look at it… my Sun sign is Capricorn, and my Moon sign is Cancer… these a my primary, more dominant Sun/Moon placements…. But my 10th house cusp is Virgo, and my 4th house is Pisces…. My secondary Sun/Moon placements are…. Sun in Virgo, and Moon in Pisces… and since my Asc is Sag and my 9th house is Leo… secondarily I’m a Virgo with Leo rising and Moon in Pisces…

Also if you want more detail on who you’ll probably end up married to… use this method on your 7th house…

For example, my Dsc is Gemini….Gemini is symbolically related to the 3rd house… my 3rd house cusp is Aquarius, ruled by Uranus Scorpio… and I have noticed an attraction to people with personal planets in these to signs… like the Asc, Venus or the Moon (usually not the Sun Sign)… also, my Gemini Dsc is attracted to what is interesting… and people of the 3rd house bring a lot of ‘interesting’ into your life…

posted December 19, 2011 01:19 AM            

I love how your mind works.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lotis White:
and it seems the same principle can be applied to any house cusp or planet…

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Yes, I think so, too.

Actually this way we could make a whole new `secondary` chart.

Well, I am Sag-Sun, Aquarius-Moon and Sag rising.

So secondarily I am:

Sun in Leo/Virgo (signs of my 9th house)
Moon in Scorpio (Scorpio at 11th house cusp)
Leo/Virgo-rising (Leo Virgo at 9th cups)

secondary angles:
DESC in Aquarius/Pisces
MC in Gemini
IC in Sagitarius

secondary planets:
Sun in Leo/virgo
Moon in Scorpio
Mercury in Leo/Virgo
Venus in Libra
Mars in Leo/Virgo

It looks so different.

EDIT:
Clearly works for my best friend and me.

My secondary Sun is Virgo (intercepted) - her primary Sun is Virgo.

her secondary Sun is Sagittarius (intercepted) -
my primary Sun is Sagittarius.

both our secondary ASC`s are Virgo.
both our secondary MC`s are Gemini.

her primary Venus is Libra, her secondary Venus is Cap.
my primary Venus is Cap, my secondary Venus is Libra.

posted December 20, 2011 06:08 PM            

my 4th house cusp in leo and it is funny because i tend to be attracted to mars in leo a lot. actually, i dont get any physical attraction when mars is in cancer.

so, yes, planets in 4 at least i have noticed with mars in 3 ocassions, seems to be attracted physically.

there is a sort of movement, fast movement and assertiveness that i like in both women and man with mars in leo.

but other than that, i guess that loyalty, generosity and playfulness are qualities i like in people in general. But that sense of proud of leo not my cup of tea.

posted November 18, 2013 08:43 PM            

My Venus is in Gemini and happens to be in the 2nd House. I know the 2nd House is in Taurus...but as my secondary, what does this mean?

My Descendant is Scorpio, with Taurus rising. My 8th House ruler is Capricorn, with the outer planets - Saturn, Neptune, and Uranus - in it. Scorpio, ruler of the 8th house, is my secondary. What does that mean in terms of relationships? Am I looking for someone with a more Scorpio-esque energy? Traits? With a Descendant in Scorpio, I feel like it would be a double whammy...

...Especially since my Mars is in Cancer in the 3rd House. Now, I know a Cancer-Mars is considered a "fall," but with Mar's secondary house being the 4th, does this mean I'm more of a protector of my family or looking for a protector? It also conjuncts my Pluto - Scorpio, on the 6th house cusp of 7th.

I know this a lot of questions to be throwing out at once. So just take your time and get back to me when you can! I also have stuff to ask about a Juno and Eros in Virgo - mine, to be specific. lol. But I'll save 'em for later.

posted November 18, 2013 11:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ibringyouasong:
Wow. You give such depth and interesting perceptions in your essays. I also have a strong interest in the development of relationships within a person's natal chart as well as the synastry between a couple. A lot of what you wrote does ring a little true for me as well.

My Venus is in Gemini and happens to be in the 2nd House. I know the 2nd House is in Taurus...but as my secondary, what does this mean?

My Descendant is Scorpio, with Taurus rising. My 8th House ruler is Capricorn, with the outer planets - Saturn, Neptune, and Uranus - in it. Scorpio, ruler of the 8th house, is my secondary. What does that mean in terms of relationships? Am I looking for someone with a more Scorpio-esque energy? Traits? With a Descendant in Scorpio, I feel like it would be a double whammy...

...Especially since my Mars is in Cancer in the 3rd House. Now, I know a Cancer-Mars is considered a "fall," but with Mar's secondary house being the 4th, does this mean I'm more of a protector of my family or looking for a protector? It also conjuncts my Pluto - Scorpio, on the 6th house cusp of 7th.

I know this a lot of questions to be throwing out at once. So just take your time and get back to me when you can! I also have stuff to ask about a Juno and Eros in Virgo - mine, to be specific. lol. But I'll save 'em for later.

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